Diesel Dynamics cam... whats the story?

[krabman]

We have had this discussion on the phone about dyno numbers and I still say your numbers are too high and dont reflect the actual hp typical owners will see. This isnt because your parts are not giving the power you say, for the trucks I have seen they are giving everything promised and then some. The problem in my opinion is that your starting number for hp is just too high. I have been to four different dyno events since I purchased my truck and the highest number I saw for a stock 03 was 250. 7. My own truck for instance dynoed at 238 at Lenny's last winter and then 246 at the spring BD dyno day when stock. I have seen more or less a dozen run over the course of those events and as I said 250 is the top number I have seen. Now I am aware that some people have dyno'ed with bigger numbers and I believe them but dont think they are typical. Both Lenny and Christian assured me that those numbers that I produced and have seen are in their experiance quite representative of the numbers they see on average for an HO 03. It is my honest opinion that you should lower the number on your configurater too more acurately reflect what most people are likely to see. As far as the turbo comparison Im glad you pointed that out about it not being a final product. All of us have a lot of money invested when we get to this point and the more information we have the better. If you want since the Missus was talking about a vages vacation I might be able to arrange to drive my truck down and you can install one of yours on my truck and directly compare numbers with the kwikspool. It would have to be on your dime as far as swapping the turbos though cause I cant afford to do that kind of R&D. Anyhow as I said previously I think your products are good and producing as promised but the start point IMO is unrealistic.

 

[KLockliear]

Well, I see your point, but that's the great thing about a Dynojet dyno - there is no manipulation to be done. I'm sure the SAE correction factor has some to play in this, but it is what it is.



While I don't think it would be in our interest to swap turbos just to compare the competition, I would be willing to make a run with your truck on our dyno to see where you stack up against what we routinely see. Just give me a call when you get ready to come to town. Gimme a week or so's notice.

 

[krabman]

Ok, here is a link that crabjoe was kind enough to set up to the dyno runs. #ad
The one that spoolsup earlier is the kwikspool the other is the truck with the partial DD turbo. For those not in the local area the dyno these were taken from is by far (Dyno-Mite Diesel) the stingiest in the local area. The other truck ran at several other events at different locations in the high 430's.

 

[Duck]

:--)

 

[Swayse]

How weird. My truck made 448 SAE on a Dyno Jet 1200 in Odessa Texas at Racers Edge Dyno, and mine is an SO. I have my dyno sheets, if someone want to put them up, let me know.

 

[KLockliear]

Krab, looking at the graph, you have a stock run on something (green=hp, black=tq), then two runs that are basically identical. What am I missing? I don't see two different turbo dynos there.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

On the two high HP runs, are we looking at Tq or HP? I see them both listed but only one parameter is graphed for each truck (2 runs per truck it appears?)



The stock-looking graphs appear to show both HP and torque graphed out







Vaughn

 

[KLockliear]

Vaughn, from what I can tell, we are looking at the 3 runs:

1. Stock run - Green:HP, Black:TQ
   
2. Modified 1 - Red:HP, Pink:TQ
   
3. Modified 2 - Blue:HP, Dk Blue:TQ
   
   [/list=1]Both the modified runs look the same. I don't see a different truck here.

 

[krabman]

The one that spools up first is the Kwikspool the next over is the partial DD turbo. The stock run is the one around the 440 mark the other is the unidentified one that I have no idea what it goes to. Lenny was moving stuff on and off the graph and changing colors to compare between what the two trucks did this is the one where he had the torque comparison up. The printed numbers are the totals for the best runs for each truck The runs are very similar on the torque except right on the bottom where the kwikspool is a little different. From there both turbos are nearly identical except the other one lags behind but then hold on longer on the back side. As I said I was on level four on the EZ and the other truck was on six. Im not sure if this contributed to the way the DD held on longer in the end, kept it from spooling sooner in the begining or what. Again both trucks ran more than a dozen runs while changing pins on the ez and what not and the curves followed the same pattern just at different levels. As far as the total numbers just remember this is at Dyno-Mite Diesel where as Vaghn can tell you everyone gets lower numbers. I know for a fact that the other truck ran 438 or 437 cant remember which at the spring BD dyno day and I was told went 440 someodd at a different event but I didnt see that one. It is interesting to note that we both pulled these numbers reapetedly, and they were flat neck and neck in max hp and torque over the course of many runs. Just out of curiousity we threw another DD box on just to see if there would be any difference since I had heard that some where more equal than others but the results were almost identical on those runs. And last as Vaghn can again coroberate, Lenny is pretty methodical, if you cant do it twice it didnt happen.

 

[KLockliear]

Do you mean this circled area? That's the difference between the KS and the partial MB103?



#ad

 

[krabman]

No, no, no, Im going down to Lennys soon to get my beloved coffee cup and I will get him to print out something that is understandable by someone who wasnt there. In an aside... How do you get a picture on here like that? When I try it always turns into a blocky mess.

 

[KLockliear]

You just have to have a place to host the pic on the web. What you are looking at there is a stock run and two modified runs on the same truck. Were you thinking of another graph?

 

[krabman]

Am I incredibly bad at explaining or am I confused? That I guess is the question Im asking myself right now. As I said, I am going to Lennys very soon and I will have him print it out on seperate graphs and that will hopefully be easier for everyone to figure out.

 

[KLockliear]

Just 'splain to me what you are seeing above... perhaps we can get this all sorted out. That is the graph you intended?

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Just a guess

From what I can surmise, both graphs of the high HP trucks are HP only. The one that comes up quicker is the Kwikspool truck which peaks HP at 2440 RPM but then falls off faster. The other is the DD-turbo Ram peaking at 2800 RPM and holds out longer at higher RPM. From my novice eyes it appears the Kwikspool spins up quite a bit faster but then becomes restrictive compared to the DD and causes HP falloff to occur sooner at higher RPM.



Vaughn

 

[KLockliear]

OK, I see your mistake Vaughn. The graph you are looking at is 3 different dyno runs (six total lines) as listed at the top of the page on the left. The HP graphs are dark blue, pink and black. The torque graphs are green, red and blue. Notice that HP and TQ figures are given for 3 graphs on the top (max values).



The black graph is a stock dyno curve on an 03 according to the info. Power is about right. The green graph is the corresponding TQ curve for the green HP curve.



The red and blue graphs overlap each other basically identically. See my red circle (sorta circle ), you will see in there where the red and blue come together and basically overlap exactly the whole way (consistency/repeatability). Those are the two torque curves the correspond to the dark blue and pink HP curves. The TQ comes on and seems to peak around 2500rpm.



The last two graphs (pink and dark blue) also overlap (as they should) and climb to a peak at around 2800rpm. Up there at 2800 you can see where they deviate a little and show they are two different graphs.



This make more sense now?

 

[PGoble]

DD Horsepower/Torque

Keith,

Still loving the setup on my truck. Not one problem to speak of. FYI, I am supposed to go down to Ogden and visit Edge Products. They are going to install the new Edge box on my truck and give a test run/dyno with all of the mods purchased from you. We are hoping to see 530+ hp (stacking both boxes). I was also going to dyno the truck with the current configuration which is supposed to be your 480 hp setup. I will post the results after. We are at 4500 ft, so it will be interesting to see what kind of power is made at this altitude. Maybe this will help with the comparison of the DD turbo and the B1. Hope all is well in Vegas, we have been getting snow for the past 4 days here in Logan.

Best Regards,



Peter

 

[krabman]

I went by Lenny's yesterday and those runs are all my truck. They are as follows, a stock run, highest torque run, and highest hp run. I am very sorry about the confusion. After we finished the dyno session on my truck we were pulling up the runs and looking at them and the last thing we did was put up the other truck's runs against mine to compare. This was an eyebrow raiser as it looked pretty much just like what I have posted here. It was at that point that I asked Lenny if he could put my stock run up and print me a graph. He did so except he pulled the other trucks runs off and put mine on and I did not know this. When I asked him yesterday why he did this he said that he did so because its pretty standard to pull up runs on other trucks to compare in the shop but he never prints out or publishes numbers of a third party due to privacy issues. It was naive of me not to think of this in the first place but in hindsight it is obviously a good policy. Again I would like to apologize for the confusion, I honestly thought I was posting what I last saw on the moniter in the shop. What I have said is true. The kwikspool did light up quite a bit sooner, I was not exagerating and we did do what I said we did and the results were what I said. Lenny is going to talk to the other fellow and see if he will give him permission to release a couple of graphs so I can post them. I am honestly sorry guys, I wont make such a mistake again and I hope everyone understands it was my mistake, Lenny had no part in screwing it up.

 

[KLockliear]

Hey Peter. SNOW! Yuck. I'd be suprised if the dyno edge has will show you a decent number. It's a load style dyno and they have lots of problems with trucks over 400hp. The new box should be fun though.

 

[KLockliear]

No problem Krab. The only real way to test/show a difference would be on the same truck. Two trucks with identical mods can still perform different.