Diesel Dynamics pump kit first impression

[BushWakr - RIP]

Caleb,



During the 'thinking process' (rare as they are )

I was considering the effects of using a dremel tool with an extremely fine abrasive, say 600 or 800 fine. If that was used to make a very narrow, vertical modification to the cone contour, then follow up with a polishing wheel on the dremel to polish up that mod. you may be able to tweak the curve on it.

I need to get a couple old assemblies, or have one or two made to work/test out this process. I really think that the contour can be fine tuned to allow for a graduated type system that is on the original cone... were by it alters more and more as you rotate it.

I really think that, that original style of configuration is a good one. For example, when I needed to go thru air-care the first thing I did was rotate the diaphram/cone back to leanest setting.

In fact, if your initial polishing/buffer wheel on the dremel is coarse enough you may be able to use that, then chase it with an extrememly fine buffer...

Thoughts guys... ??????



We may also want to wait for further results on the DD cone assembly as well as Mikes design too. Mike does this give you any ideas/thoughts, ,,, do--able??



Bob.

 

[JLEONARD]

What is our goal with this project? I am going for more top-end fueling, with better low-end, but not too much. By this I mean more overall power, but not too much smoke (tunable). What do you guys think?



Mike,

This is what I was thinking you were doing.

Jay

 

[Old Smoky]

Bob,

Just wanted to be sure. I initially used a dremel tool to modify my stock pin. It worked all right, just have to use the right "bits. " It is important to get the surface smooth so it won’t hang-up on the guide pin. I have been thinking about trying to make the new design adjustable. I'll see how that goes.



We all seem to have the same goal in mind. So, once we get something figured out it should work for everyone.



Mike

 

[jbolt]

RDBuck- yes the softer spring would let the control cone start move at lower boost and travel to its maximum fueling faster. Question is, with the stock pin at its maximum setting, you are already allowing more fuel at low boost (0psi) so depending on your setup (turbo, housing, injectors and pump settings) will the faster fueling rate work well? Smoke, throttle response etc. I’d sure like to hear how that works with the 12cm housing.



Mike- I ran the DD pin today up north to drop my truck off. 4 hours there. I adjusted my high idle the day before to 2950 under power. With the DD pin my max boost is 24psi. This is up 2psi from my previous setting with the stock pin but I had not tried that one. The reason I asked about how you measured the throw is, it looks like if you have someone hold the throttle wide open it will push the guide pin out as far as it can go, at least for that particular full power screw setting. I'm looking forward to hearing from others when they get a chance to try the DD pin on their setup.



Bob- Problem I see with doing too much grinding on the stock or DD pin is compromising the strength of the pin where it narrows. Mikes approach is good in that it retains its strength but it is not as tunable. If you look at the stock pin carefully the taper angle is the same on both sides. The cone is just offset. I think what your looking for is having the top part of the cone offset and the base equal to the overall diameter or there about. This is a little more difficult to do and may not be completely possible… well at least economically. If I can barrow a 4-jaw chuck for my lathe I might make some prototypes out of acetel or aluminum. Should be OK for testing purposes.



What do you think Mike? Oh and rest assured I have no intension of being your competitor. You can make and sell them. This is just fun for me. Now if I only knew what I was doing :-laf





Jay

 

[dpuckett]

DD pin

I missed out on the $80 specials, but I had one before. In my correspondence with DD at the time (fall 00), they said the goal was increased torque, and bottom power while at the same time, reducing smoke and EGT (Correct me if I am wrong or off just a bit). As for "stock": I believe I saw somwhere on here that stock pin angle is about 40-50%, or right in the middle. On two of my trucks, they have been on the leaner side (40% ?), the other 3 were maxed, and had some smoke at bottom end. The truck I put the DD pin in was maxed at "stock", and I lost a little peak, but had a lot more mid range, and it was more responsive. But with 4. 10s, I needed a little more top end. I like th looks of Old Smoky's pin; combines low end/ lower smoke with the farther reach of a maxed stock pin. I have my stock pin at max, due to the fact I mainly go down the highway grossed at 20-22K, so I all the fueling help I can get. Full power screw is in 1 turn from stock. Is that too much? I had to drop idle speed about 2 turns.

 

[Old Smoky]

Jay,

Good to hear that you gained 2psi. If I remember right, allowing the guide pin to reach full travel will result in a 3psi increase over the maximum diaphragm setting, and 6psi over the minimum setting. I wasn't sure if the guide pin would reach full travel by just cycling the throttle. That’s why I took it for a drive with the plunger out, so I would be sure.



As for playing around with your own design, I say go for it. You might come up with something that works very well. I can’t remember the Rockwell hardness of the stock pin, but its really hard. This ensures that the guide pin won’t wear a groove in the face of the plunger. When I was done grinding on my stock eccentric there was very little material left, and it remains quite strong considering its thickness. I don't think a little grinding on the DD pin would compromise its strength, as long as it is hardened. If you do make one out of aluminum, or something soft, I don't know how long you could run it. As for testing I'm sure it would be fine. Besides, it's easier to work with. After my pins are hardened they will not be machined again. I have to start all over if I want to change anything.



Mike

 

[nascar mark]

Ran my truck through air care yesterday with the stock shop engine ( pump turned up, custom ground pin set to max ) and it passed with flying numbers. It read a 3. 34 out of 30 for a pass. I left the stock H1C turbo on, stock injectors but pump is set to kill. I'm running 34 psi with a 12cm wastegated to open at 22psi and fully open at 30psi with this set up and max egt's are 950. I will be throwing a set of POD's in next and see what happens.

 

[jbolt]

Mark- could you post some details on your pump settings and custom ground pin?



Jay

 

[nascar mark]

Hey Jay,



Pump starwheel is CCW (at top) as far as it can go. Power screw is turned in pretty good and custom ground is just that ( Broke out the die grinder at the shop one day and went to town ).

I finally decided back in early Dec to play with my pin as Bob ( BushWakr ) and I descussed this mod back in early 2002 but never got around to playing with the pin until I had a spare pump to play with.



POD's went in to day and on the way home I hit 40 psi a couple times. Blows right through the waste gate like it wasn't there. Poor little H1C doesn't stand a chance. :{ Can't wait to get the PDR HX35 back from a friend that is borrowing it while his is being built. Talked to him today and it sounds like it will be 2 weeks or so. Hope the H1C holds up in the mean time. :--)



mark

PDR - Black Sheep Racing

 

[jbolt]

Thanks Mark, sounds like the power screw makes a huge difference. I have not touched mine yet.



Jay

 

[Midnite]

I've got my power screw all the way up to the shim, and I'm nowhere near Nascar Mark's boost levels--I max out at 25 psi unloaded, and that's with the PW injectors. When I turned in my power screw, I think I picked up maybe 3 or 4 pounds of boost max.



Mark--how on earth are you *doubling* your engine power (I'm going by your boost levels here) with nothing but pump mods?!? When you say your power screw is turned in pretty good, did you remove the shim and turn it in really far or something?



I'm dying to know here!



Thanks,

Mike

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Oh that's easy... "Wildman Settings" are top secret...



Bob.

 

[formula]

Doubling boost does not necessarily mean a doubling of engine horsepower.



The 12cm turbine housing will cause the turbo to make much more boost even without added fuel.



Sean

 

[nascar mark]

Mike,

Yes, my lock collar is off. Take it off and be free. ( I'm not talking about being naked ) LOL



Seriously, You can't hurt anything turning your power screw in if you follow my warnings posted awhile back.



mark

PDR - Black Sheep Racing

 

[Midnite]

Originally posted by BushWakr

Oh that's easy... "Wildman Settings" are top secret...



Bob.

Hmmm... I really hope not.



I can easily see the "trade secret" argument when discussing specs on new equipment that a company has sunk a big chunk of money researching (camshaft grinds, DD VE pump kits, those big 10 hole injectors Mark mentioned awhile back, etc), but here we're talking about how much that screw has been turned in, how far that little wheel was turned, etc.



Once we start going down that road where every "bomb" we do to our trucks is secret, then the whole reason for the existence for the TDR starts to evaporate before our eyes.



Mike

 

[Midnite]

Originally posted by formula

Doubling boost does not necessarily mean a doubling of engine horsepower.



The 12cm turbine housing will cause the turbo to make much more boost even without added fuel.

I thought I've read several posts here about the smaller housings not doing a thing for top-end boost--they just spool up earlier. I know when I went from my 21 cm. housing to the 16 that my peak boost didn't change at all.



Mike

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

I think you missed my intent on my post Midnite... . I was really only trying a bit of humor... .



I'm pretty sure that there are one or two 'trade secrets' still out there.

In fact, I can recall being told something like "... ... some things you need to try and discover on your own..... "

I was asking questions on performance issues one time, and got some answers, but when I pressed a bit for others, that was the answer I got... I'm ok with that personally. It just makes me dig and learn.

As for your point about the purpose of TDR diminishing when info and ideas are held back too much, I agree with you on that as well. As I said, it really was just a bit of humor which obviously missed the mark is all. .

I think mark has pretty much disclosed his tweaks, some in other posts, some in here.

Ask away,... I'll answer what I can, after all, that's how I got started and don't mind paying back that favor. .



Bob.

 

[Midnite]

Originally posted by BushWakr

I think you missed my intent on my post Midnite... . I was really only trying a bit of humor... .



I'm pretty sure that there are one or two 'trade secrets' still out there.

In fact, I can recall being told something like "... ... some things you need to try and discover on your own..... "

I was asking questions on performance issues one time, and got some answers, but when I pressed a bit for others, that was the answer I got... I'm ok with that personally. It just makes me dig and learn.

As for your point about the purpose of TDR diminishing when info and ideas are held back too much, I agree with you on that as well. As I said, it really was just a bit of humor which obviously missed the mark is all. .

I think mark has pretty much disclosed his tweaks, some in other posts, some in here.

Ask away,... I'll answer what I can, after all, that's how I got started and don't mind paying back that favor. .

No problem--actually, I realized you were probably kidding right after I posted that. Oh well, I blame my coffee.



For what it's worth, I did some searches and came up with Mark's earlier post about safely turning in the power screw past the collar. For those who are interested, that thread is here.



By the way, I should probably point out that I do realize that Mark and others don't have to give out performance tips at all--I am extremely grateful for all of the great stuff that people have posted. I definitely don't want it to sound like I think those in the know "owe" it to everybody else.



Anyway, I am now on a quest to bust 30psi!



Mike

 

[hdm48]

Mike, I will strongly suggest a PDR modified HX35 turbo. Read my signiture and with no other changes when I installed one of his turbo's I went from 25 lbs of boost to 34 lbs. It also cleaned up my smoke under power and throttle responce is immediate. All in all I must say this turbo is the best investment one can make.



-dave-

 

[Midnite]

Dave, a PDR turbo is definitely one of the next things I'm getting. I did promise my wife though that I would replace the bench seat with some bucket seats, and also lay down some sound deadening stuff under the carpet as my next project. I have a feeling if I snuck a PDR HX35 in before working on the other stuff that I'd be sleeping out in the camper for awhile!



Did you notice any milage improvement with the new turbo? I'm also wondering if my existing 16cm housing on my stock H1C will work on the HX35, or if I'd have to get a new one with it?



Thanks,

Mike