diesel emmisions

[wxman]

Hi Ryan,



The ANL website for the GREET model is at Argonne GREET Model . The latest version is GREET1_2011 which was released in October 2011. There's also an extensive list of documentation available at http://greet.es.anl.gov/list.php if you're interested.



It's my understanding that the "well" is assumed to be an average distance from a refinery located in the U. S. The "pump" I believe is a commercially available fuel pump at a gas station.



Of course, these are just averages based on a set of assumptions, but the model is widely used by, e. g. , EPA to calculate upstream emissions. For example, the footnote on the fueleconomy.gov website for the calculation of greenhouse gas emissions of any specific vehicle states...





"Greenhouse gas emissions are estimated using GREET Model 1. 8 (U. S. Department of Energy, Argonne National Laboratory) and includes the three major greenhouse gases emitted by motor vehicles: CO2, nitrous oxide, and methane. "

 

[wxman]

Here's another data point for the OP...





"…Independent engineers have told me that the air coming out of the exhaust pipe is cleaner than the air going into the engine’s intake. They don’t even have to vent the exhaust when working on the engine indoors…. "





2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI Review

 

[rbattelle]

It's my understanding that the "well" is assumed to be an average distance from a refinery located in the U. S. The "pump" I believe is a commercially available fuel pump at a gas station.

The data seems strange to me. It looks like a different fuel is used to transport the product from the refinery to the pump. Otherwise, why would that leg emit such a disproportionate amount of SOx when compared with CO?



I don't see how large truck engines (say 13L and up) would emit large quantities of SOx and (proportionally) tiny quantities of CO, while small car engines (the TDI) emits them in exactly opposite proportions (lots of CO, very little SOx). They're both running #2 diesel fuel. Presumably both 4-stroke engines.



Maybe they're counting the emissions from the refinery itself.



-Ryan

 

[wxman]

Yes, the WTP emissions supposedly include all emissions associated with drilling a well, pumping the petroleum from the well, transporting the petroleum from the well site to a refinery, refining the petroleum (including the electricity used, which is probably where most of the SOx emissions come from), and transporting the finished petroleum products to market.

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

Yes, the WTP emissions supposedly include all emissions associated with drilling a well, pumping the petroleum from the well, transporting the petroleum from the well site to a refinery, refining the petroleum (including the electricity used, which is probably where most of the SOx emissions come from), and transporting the finished petroleum products to market.

Pretty broad guestimate IMHO :-laf



It is impossible to get an accurate number for WTP when they are all so much different in cost vs. production.



Just an example: Lets just say that I have hauled SEVERAL loads of produced water from a well that is over 120 miles (one way) from the disposal well. This particular well only produces 10bbl of oil a day and produces 6-7 full 120bbl tanker loads of water!! The well hasn't even produced enough to pay for the cost of drilling the stupid thing!



This has gone on for MONTHS!! And is eating up 2+bbl of REFINED diesel fuel per load!! HMMM... 12-14bbl of REFINED fuel burned in 24hrs hauling off water to recover 10bbl produced in 24hrs that still needs to be hauled off to be refined #@$%!



On the other hand: There are some that don't produce more than 1 or 2 loads of water per year and have oil trucks showing up all the time!



It is hard to calculate such a thing and even be close!

 

[wxman]

I don't disagree with you. I have no expertise in petroleum processing; I'm just relaying the results of a model produced by a U. S. National Laboratory (ANL), which should be as objective as one can find. Models are by definition full of assumptions and averages. I understand that no one is ever going to be able to accurately estimate emissions from all possible scenarios.



As I indicated in a previous post, there is an extensive collection of documentation on the ANL GREET website. Maybe some of the assumptions are outlined in one of those presentations?



Anyway, as far as gasoline vs. diesel fuel is concerned, the emissions from the well to the refinery should be essentially the same (I would think?), so the differences are mostly associated with the refining process.



I am aware that EPA has estimated VOC emissions during the distribution of finished product to be about 43 grams per million BTU of gasoline product and a little more than one gram per million BTU of diesel fuel. I'm not sure if the GREET model was used to estimate these emissions.



In my opinion, more that just what comes out of the tailpipe of a vehicle need to be taken into account when evaluating the actual emissions for which a specific vehicle line or vehicle technology is responsible.