Diesel engine doubling on price

[TAbbott]

"Trucking has done well because for the most part they have our vast freeway and roadway system to travel on for basically free... "



Vaughn: I just couldn't let this one pass w/o comment. Obviously you've never owned and operated a class 8 commercial vehicle if you think they run up and down the roads for free or anything close to it. If it wasn't for the road use taxes and fuel taxes and excise taxes and other taxes that trucks pay, most of the roads in this country wouldn't be maintained at anything close to current levels.



Just by way of example, in Oregon they have a state income tax along with property taxes that are significant. I don't know which is which, but those 2 taxes are number 1 and number 3 in revenue production for the state. PUC taxes (Taxes on trucks to use the highways) are number 2. Its a humongous revenue producer.



Anybody who thinks trucks don't pay to use the roads is just wrong or completely ignorant of the facts. Just wait until they put GPS sensors on the cars in Oregon (this is actually legislation they're trying to pass there) and Joe Citizen has to pay for every mile he travels (just like the trucks do only at a lesser rate) and see how free they think it is. Currently it costs each 18 wheeler you see on the freeway nearly $85. 00 in taxes just to the Oregon PUC to make one round trip from the OR/CA state line to Portland and back. Thats about one days trucking for a solo driver. If that happened 5 days a week for 52 weeks, that one truck would pay just to the OR PUC $21,970 dollars per year. If you wanted to run from the ID/OR line to Portland and back that would cost a little over $100. 00. $103. 50 to be exact. That doesn't count what the Feds take. They want $550. 00 (IRS Form 2290) before you can even buy a license for a truck, which costs on average around $2,500. 00 per year plus how ever much fuel taxes get paid each month.



Each and every truck you see running up and down I-5 or I-84 pays these kinds of taxes on a daily basis. Free it's not!

 

[Dieselnut59]

I think our trucking industry is pretty damn efficient in USA. The railroad industry is efficient in the fact that they can haul so much quantity at once. The main way I see they could GREATLY increase efficiency is to install two-way tracks, much like an interstate. Right now they have to pull aside and let an opposing train pass, then proceed. If every railroad bed was laid with two pairs of tracks side by side, look how efficient the system could be. They already have the right-of-way for it.

I don't know how they have done it, but Cummins has MASTERED the new clean diesel technology with the '07's. That has got to be the cleanest engine out there now. It does not burn your nose or eyes when you stick your face in the exhaust flow. We may hate the cost of these these new regulations, but I am thankful for new ULSD and the technology that is here for the '07 Cummins can't come soon enough to the forklift industry. The Tier III standards do not affect our industry for diesels until Jan 1 2008. When it does come, diesels will be as safe or safer to run indoors than propane (LPG) equipped forklifts. I wish this technology was here NOW because I have a customer who wants new diesel forklifts to run inside. Propane is explosive, more dangerous to refill, harder to store and transfer, less efficient and less powerful than diesel. ULSD, clean burn technology and exhaust aftertreatment would allow me to sell this customer diesel equipment NOW. I am all for these advances which allow my fuel of choice to be run safely inside a warehouse.

 

[J&LRam]

I have been hearing rumors that all diesel engines are going to cost double what they sell for now. Is this true or just a rumor? The source told me that the government was behind this.

just checked kbb and nada webs and the 6. 7 has a 6100 factory suggested price and 5368 invoice pricing. The '07 6. 6 DMAX is a 6030 factory price and can be had for 4582 at invoice price. The '08 6. 4 PSD shows 6895 factory suggested and ivoice is 5723 bucks. Lots of wild prices for the new gen diesels mostly from gasser folks that try to justify, for them selves, not to go with a diesel. Government consperacy theories mostly come from ..... well I better not go there as we have a forum for those types to hang out.

JIM

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

"Trucking has done well because for the most part they have our vast freeway and roadway system to travel on for basically free... "



Vaughn: I just couldn't let this one pass w/o comment. Obviously you've never owned and operated a class 8 commercial vehicle if you think they run up and down the roads for free or anything close to it. If it wasn't for the road use taxes and fuel taxes and excise taxes and other taxes that trucks pay, most of the roads in this country wouldn't be maintained at anything close to current levels.



Just by way of example, in Oregon they have a state income tax along with property taxes that are significant. I don't know which is which, but those 2 taxes are number 1 and number 3 in revenue production for the state. PUC taxes (Taxes on trucks to use the highways) are number 2. Its a humongous revenue producer.



Anybody who thinks trucks don't pay to use the roads is just wrong or completely ignorant of the facts. Just wait until they put GPS sensors on the cars in Oregon (this is actually legislation they're trying to pass there) and Joe Citizen has to pay for every mile he travels (just like the trucks do only at a lesser rate) and see how free they think it is. Currently it costs each 18 wheeler you see on the freeway nearly $85. 00 in taxes just to the Oregon PUC to make one round trip from the OR/CA state line to Portland and back. Thats about one days trucking for a solo driver. If that happened 5 days a week for 52 weeks, that one truck would pay just to the OR PUC $21,970 dollars per year. If you wanted to run from the ID/OR line to Portland and back that would cost a little over $100. 00. $103. 50 to be exact. That doesn't count what the Feds take. They want $550. 00 (IRS Form 2290) before you can even buy a license for a truck, which costs on average around $2,500. 00 per year plus how ever much fuel taxes get paid each month.



Each and every truck you see running up and down I-5 or I-84 pays these kinds of taxes on a daily basis. Free it's not!

Good points to make TAbbott . . . I basically misspoke, but to rephrase what I meant-- our goverment has built our immense road system, with tax payer dollars, which has made it easy for the trucking industry to boom. Yes I understand the trucking industry contributes a large sum of money each year in taxes, but since everyone gets to benefit from this road system every tax payer contributes to the highway system one way or another.



There has been plenty in public funds spent on railroads around the country, the government has fronted plenty of capital in new RR building, but by in large the RR company foots a large portion of the bill to build new lines. For example the DM&E railroad in Minnesota has a huge rail project in the works, and plans to fund the entire 6 billion dollar project with its own money http://www.gotrac.org/index.cfm?page=306

And when it comes to maintaining the existing rail system, well that pretty much comes from the rail company entirely. And guess what. . . I'm sure they pay plenty of taxes on their operations, some of which probably go to help us build our roads.



As far as trucking goes, we certainly have a big need for it for many reasons. Our country needs a balance of rail, truck, air and freighter shipping. But after driving all over the US and seeing the crushing volume of semi traffic in many areas of the east coast I think more of it needs to move to rail.



Vaughn

 

[Mel Swanson]

Dishman Dodge, Spokane, WA, ordered my truck on Jan 15th, and today, Jan 16th I received the VIN, with Order Status: D

Straight retail prices went like this: 6. 7L @ $6100. 00; Clean Diesel Technology System @ $995. 00; 68RFE trans. @ $1575. 00. Call Adam @ 509-475-2479.

 

[Mel Swanson]

Hey Vaughn, Good point. Interstate trucking is a hard way for an individual to make a living. We are at a point where we have overreached our capacity. The roadway infrastructure hasn’t come close to keeping up with the tax review that truckers provide. On any given night look at all the trucks filling up the roadside parking stops, (75 % no toilets) and off ramps along interstate highways like 8, 10, 40, 35, & 95. The truck stops are filled for the night.

The citizens should really squeal when they find out that the Bush administration has spent billions studying the feasibility and engineering for the NAFTA truck transport highway which will be built from Mexico right up through the middle of Texas and beyond. The road builder will be a company from Spain.

Wonder how much diesel fuel would be saved if 98 % of east/west and south/north freight was carried by rail and guys like me were limited to local in state distribution?

 

[TAbbott]

Vaughn: You make some good points as well, and in addition to those you mentioned, the rails really did open the west to expansion back in the later part of the 19th century. With all that being said, the government also gave them every other section along their tracks as an incentive to build their tracks in the first place. Every other section along their entire right of way. Perhaps that explains the ancillary real estate businesses the rails operate. Nobody decries this, as it was a win-win deal for everybody at the time, but the fact remains that it compensated the original rail companies very well for building a monopolistic transportation system that created wealth beyond anyone's comprehension other than perhaps Bill Gates or Warren Buffett. Trucking companies are Johnny come-lately's to the transportation industry and aren't subsidized at all compared to to the way the rails were originally. Trucking survives because it does a better job of delivering America's goods, and, it could be much more competitive with the rails if they were allowed a more realistic and uniform set of size and weights around the country. You could remove many trucks from the road if larger and heavier equipment was authorized everywhere. As long as more axles are employed and the loads are distributed farther apart the impact to the roads would be nil and the costs of shipping could be reduced. I'm not saying trucks could ever compete with the rails in high volume lanes coast to coast on non-time-sensitive freight, but they could be much more efficient than they are now without adversely affecting the infrastructure or public safety.

 

[CumminSense]

CSX claims in their TV ad that they can carry freight at 345 miles/gallon, per ton (or some number close to that, I don't remember exactly). Now I'm sure they spin the number to make it really positive sounding, but still it demonstrates the efficiency of steel wheel on steel rail, and shallow grades. I know they claim their intermodal business increases every year.