Here I am

Diesel Fuel $3.79

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Greatest Drop if "Gas" prices in history!!!!

I know this topic has been discussed a lot, but I can't get over how diesel fuel is rising extremely fast and gas is dropping. I just drove by the fuel station I fill up at and diesel went up $. 55 today to $3. 79 and super unleaded gas was $2. 29. There are a lot more gasoline vehicles out there then there are diesel. So why such a huge difference in price between the two? The government knew they had to tap into the oil reserves during the hurricanes to keep gas prices staying high, and when they did, gas went down instantly. Why not diesel? Cheaper to make, but yet costs more :confused: . Don't want to cause a war on this topic, but just wondering what others are paying and there view on this.
 
I see several answers to your question..... 1 ) whats the spread in state and federal road taxes between diesel and gas... . 2 ) here in WA where I'm at, the spread between diesel and regular unleaded is about 30 cents..... more than I think it should be..... 3 ) we now moving into the winter... . and #2 diesel has another name, home heating oil, and that we've heard is in short supply... . 4 ) with the build up of heating oil reserves for the winter, and customers starting to fill their tanks... or should we say buying a half-tank for now and waiting for 30 days to see what's going to happen... and one of my best guesses, is that you've found the one station in your area that wants to gouge just a little.....



Anyhow,, that's my 2 cents worth... .
 
Holy Moly, $3. 79?? :eek: $2. 29 for Super Unleaded?? Man alive, I paid $2. 89 for Regular Unleaded yesterday and Diesel was $3. 09 I think. $3. 79 was our peak boom price for gas, while Diesel stayed at about $2. 89. Very volatile market to say the least, the ROI on those home brew BioDiesel units is getting much shorter all the time...
 
In my town, ROY UTAH, there is a MOBILE/EXON selling Diesel for $3. 25 and accross the street there is a SINCLARE station selling Diesel for $3. 39!

In my opinion, the Sinclare station is gouging the public!!!!



Wayne

amsoilman
 
Diesel went up 10 cents today to $3. 19 and gas went down 8 cents to $2. 77. One diesel station that always offers at much less than the other stations went up some but they are still at $2. 92
 
For a real shocker listen up; We just pulled into a station/truckstop about 50 miles west of Needles Ca. $4. 79/ gal.

I don't know how long they'll last in bussiness.
 
Sakes alive these prices are Smacking me in the face! :--)



I live in So Cal and travel to San Diego, El Centro and all over... got me a big Aero Aux tank so filling up over 100 gallons is easy... but I've been just filling up what I need lately. . prices between $3. 15 - $3. 59 and a bit more in Southern Cal.



Ahhhh, but see, I often travel into Mexico for off-road racing business... dang Diesel in Mexico only two lights across the border is $1. 79 per gallon! Hate to fight the wait times coming back, but I don't need sleep, so I've been coming across in the middle of the night.



As a retired law dog I always pop on my interior light so the boys in uniform can see who, how, what, why & where when I'm pulling up to the border gate. This fine US Border Agent asked me the other night, "Smugglin' anything," as he smirked at me. I smiled and said, "Yes I am... an entire full tank of cheap Mexican diesel. " He shook his head and laughed waving me through.



Figured out I'm saving $216 dollars on a complete fill up of 120 gallons heading across the border to fill up. ($1. 79 versus 3. 59) Holy Smokes. . now that is unbelievable. Oo. :D
 
:-{}



Interesting topic this fuel pricing! I have a friend that owns a Chevron Fuel Station here in Oregon. We were having a talk about this subject the other day and why two stations spaced 3 miles apart could have different prices posted.



I was thinking that they should be the same as they pay the same price for fuel, right! Oh nay say they. My friend and owner enlightened me. There is an interesting thing here that I was not aware of. It is called competitive zoning. This means that within the area that I live, say 10 miles in all directions, there are 4 Chevron stations, one being my friends. Within this same ten miles, there are three competitive zones. One station in each with one zone having 2. Each zone pays a different price for fuel from Chevron which is considered Branded Fuel.



Now here is where it gets interesting. We think that the gas company controls the price of the fuel sold or we think that the individual station controls the price. In fact, they both do, but the company has the big stick for control. Twice a week the stations are required to submit what they are selling the fuel for and if I remember correctly from my conversation, they have to list each day, the price they charged by all grades dispensed.



Now the individual station can choose to up the price or lower the price to determine his profit to some degree. If he raises it to high, we the consumer are crabby mad and call it price gouging, which it might be, but maybe not. He is trying to make a profit. If the individual station lowers the price, well heck, we all beat a path to his door and will buy everything he has. Remember what was just said here as it plays a roll in what comes up.



Switch gears for a second, don’t worry we will come back and join the thoughts together as we go through this.



The big enlightenment for me is the fact that the US petroleum market has absolutely no storage capacity. This mean that on any given day, what is in the lines coming out of Alaska, Wyoming, California, or the Gulf production sites is all there is. This means we are making it on demand and delivering as required when needed. This is important and is part of the problem in a sense. We have no storage capacity, remember this.



Fuel is being produced at a predictable rate based not on price, but on volume. Years and years of historical data gathered by the company via these twice weekly pricing reports provided by the individual stations plays a part in this because they also list how much they have sold in quantity.



Now we will bring the other gear mentioned above back in. When an individual station lowers it’s price for what ever reason, their sales will increase. If they go into a price war with a competitor rival, say Texaco, they will wind up selling everything they have in the supply that they hold and will go empty. The problem is that since fuel is not stored, but supplied as needed (to a point), they now require another fill for their tanks. This can be tolerated some times without problems to the overall supply chain, remember fuel is not stored. But if that same station continues to keep its price low, it creates a problem for the company to keep it supplied as they are pulling dynamic inventory from other stations. The company can then put the brakes on the individual station by raising the price of the fuel that the station need to have to fill their day tanks. The company can penalize the station very effectively this way.



Now think about the zones that were mentioned earlier. Years of monitoring the individual stations have created enormous volumes of data to look at and compare station to station. We know for example that one zone can charge a little more than another zone next to it. This can be because of income levels in the particular zone or where the zone is located (maybe the only one and it has a captured audience, rural for example).



So now we as a company want to have the individual station be profitable, but we don’t want him to go out of business either. We have a clear ability to control his pricing by what we charge him for fuel. We can affect his profit margin and there is nothing he can do. By the same token, if he is steady with traditional more than average volume of sales that we can keep supplied, we can reward him by charging a few pennies less. If he gets greedy and his price goes up and we have to re-supply him and not be able to deliver as much fuel to a zone next door, we can put the brakes on by charging him more.



The company control the price and using the zoning can keep the market price within a set of parameter. If the individual stations get out of line, we can penalize them.



The flip side is that if the company hurts the station (hard to prove, but has been done) then the station can take the company to court for damages. These are rare but do happen and are never public knowledge to the general consumer. My friend had to testify as a witness for his competitor who won and was awarded around $400,000 in damages because his company was penalizing him. Whoops can’t say that (penalizing). He proved it. The settlement was out of court.



Now here is one more thing to think about. When the weather come in we see the price spike more often than not because of storms or disasters. Part of the problem is that when all the consumers make a run on the stations, they actually drain about 20% of the nations given day supply of fuel that is in the lines. The refineries and pumps from the oil fields cannot make up the loss instantly, remember we have no national storage, we are using it as we are pumping it.



It is all very complicated and this is the best I can remember. The bottom line is that we have no national storage and we use it as it is produced. The pumps cannot ratchet up output instantly and the big surprise is that they cannot shut down instantly either. There is no place for the excess to go because the system is so finely balanced.



What would happen if everyone just decided not to buy gas for 1 week. The pumps can’t shut down, where is the excess going to go. The refineries can’t stop, because it takes weeks to get started again, its hard to bring them back on line and get everything balance out again.



The bottom line is that if everyone buys normal the pipelines flow and the balance remains ok.



If everyone buys all at once, the pipelines go empty because the refineries cannot increase, because they are almost at peak now, (we have not built a refinery in 30 to 40 years).



If everyone stopped buying, the pipeline is full and needs to be relieved because there is no storage, the company has to provide an incentive for the consumer to start buying again, because he has no place to store excess fuel and if he stops the refineries, he then faces the terrible problem of getting it started again and the distribution balanced out through the network of the supply system.



The pumping and refining production quota’s that the companies use have been developed a couple of years in advance. The whole system is a monster that once stopped is almost impossible to restart without a great deal of discomfort to the public.



Yes they are making big buck and they do control to some extent what we pay, but because we as individual in a nation have no way of acting as a collective unit have little influence other than when we collectively get the jitters and make a run on the pumps.



If we could collectively as consumers all buy or control our buying as a group, guess who will get control of the price. There are what, a dozen oil companies that provide the fuel to the entire country. It is easier for them because they don’t have as many people to control. How many consumers are there and how could we collectively think as a single individual. If we could do that and control when we as a group buy or which to buy fuel, then I think we could create lower prices.



I might be wrong, but I don’t think I am.



Food for thought guys.
 
I still think it's a scam. There are just too many signs pointing to it. I don't understand why there is this "shortage" yet no stations are running out?? I understand that oil is traded on the open market, but it seems now that the speculation of future demands, storms, ect drives the price way up long before the events take place IF they ever do at all. Much more than in the past. . Once it's up, it stays up. IMO, this trend cannot continue. It's been slow to start showing effects on the rest of our economy, but it will happen. . I personally think they adjust prices based on demand. When the numbers came out saying that last month demand was down 3% from last year, the bottom fell out of the gas prices. . Once people get uses to the cheaper prices, and start driving again they'll jack the prices back up. . They don't want people to get into the habit of not driving, carpooling, ect. . The bottom will fall out of diesel as well if a report ever shows that demand is off, but I don't see that happening considering this country runs on diesel.



I'm going to give this crap another couple of months and if this trend continues as predicted, I'm selling the diesel and going back to gas. I don't care how much I love my truck, I refuse to pay $4 or $5 a gallon. Thats where we're heading this winter. . I guarantee it. One more hurricane, and 2 inches of snow in the N. E and we're all screwed.
 
it is price fixing at its best!!... as a previous poster stated it is ALLLLLLLL based on FUTURES!!... hello people... these idiots in the stock market (I know cuz I am one but cant afford too much of any given oil stock at the moment) are the ones driving the price up for their customers... IE the Oil stockholder!!!... along with the sand fleas in the east (those loosers would be NOTHING without oil)... controlling the output to the world... . it is a total sham... . AND the government aint gonna do nothing about it... remember three weeks ago congress said "they will look into the price gouging?"... yea right... havent heard anything since have we???... . what the gentleman from Oregon stated is very true( although I think there is MUCH more storage than what we are lead to believe... . IMO that would be the oil companies answer ) thus the FEW (remember they are snatching eachother up every month so soon there will be only one or two oil companies in CONTROL) oil companies CONTROL the price to the market... . the ONLY competion is at the dealer market...

ok... my two cents. . thanks for letting VENT!!

cameron
 
I may have inflamed the discussion a little; While the prices and location were real the situation probably was not comparable. This was on a major freeway truckstop where they had no power and were running generators for power; lots of fuel pumps, truck and auto but no customers. Three employees sitting inside afirming to me that the price for diesel was indeed $4. 79 and just sitting waiting for me to fall over in surprise. It looked to me like the generators might be burning more fuel than they were selling. They were both running and of about 150 kW capicity each.
 
Coolslice said:
I still think it's a scam. There are just too many signs pointing to it. I don't understand why there is this "shortage" yet no stations are running out??

Actually, we have had stations in Montgomery, AL go empty for days at a time since the storm rearranged the southeast. If you want to see the shortages, just come down here and see for yourself. It is mostly coastal from what I have seen. Fuel in Dalton, GA which I drive to weekly right now is over $3. 40 a gallon on average







I understand that oil is traded on the open market, but it seems now that the speculation of future demands, storms, ect drives the price way up long before the events take place IF they ever do at all. Much more than in the past. . Once it's up, it stays up. IMO, this trend cannot continue. It's been slow to start showing effects on the rest of our economy, but it will happen. . I personally think they adjust prices based on demand. When the numbers came out saying that last month demand was down 3% from last year, the bottom fell out of the gas prices. . Once people get uses to the cheaper prices, and start driving again they'll jack the prices back up. . They don't want people to get into the habit of not driving, carpooling, ect. . The bottom will fall out of diesel as well if a report ever shows that demand is off, but I don't see that happening considering this country runs on diesel.

Even if the US was to carpool nation wide under madatory 2 persons per vehicle, the price for fuel would stay up. There is alot more to it than our own demands for oil. Countries like China that are breeding like mice are sucking up every drop of fuel they can get. Winter time fuel demands have nothing to do with driving, it is home heating oil. I know of no one around our ranch in Montana that uses anything but fuel oil for heat. Occasionally there is electric back up, but its mostly fuel oil. Propane is looking reall good this winter though.

I'm going to give this crap another couple of months and if this trend continues as predicted, I'm selling the diesel and going back to gas. I don't care how much I love my truck, I refuse to pay $4 or $5 a gallon. Thats where we're heading this winter. . I guarantee it. One more hurricane, and 2 inches of snow in the N. E and we're all screwed. Let the storms come, it will force the oil rigging companies to find permanent relocation points for its houston oil depot. Without a revised distribution network, it will hurt alot longer than this winter





If you want to stop the supposed oil crisis, support a full colonization of the Persian Gulf. Quit trying to play nice with barbaric worthless parasites who claim they are acting in the name of religion. Ban fuel trades from the open market and force profit caps on anything the US pulls out of the ground, the worst it will do is force the revenue to stay within our own country when non US companies pull out their facilities. Restrict export of the resources to prevent the crude from being sold elsewhere to eliminate any loopholes from the oil industry's lawyers skirting around the new regulations. And most of all, quit letting bureacrats be paid to look the other way when they know what's going on.
 
Last edited:
DKarvwnaris said:
If you want to stop the supposed oil crisis, support a full colonization of the Persian Gulf. Quit trying to play nice with barbaric worthless parasites who claim they are acting in the name of religion. Ban fuel trades from the open market and force profit caps on anything the US pulls out of the ground, the worst it will do is force the revenue to stay within our own country when non US companies pull out their facilities. Restrict export of the resources to prevent the crude from being sold elsewhere to eliminate any loopholes from the oil industry's lawyers skirting around the new regulations. And most of all, quit letting bureacrats be paid to look the other way when they know what's going on.



AMEN BROTHER!!!! :-laf

cameron
 
Because Diesel Makes The World Go Round

CBrabec,



Prior to buying my 04. 5 I had been casually watching the price of diesel. Historically it had been cheaper than gas. After I bought my first diesel this trend seemed to reverse. It has been aggravated by the Hurricanes. Yes Diesel is cheaper to make but it is also in greatest demand. The price of oil is on the increase because of production and manufacturing increasing all around the world. Places like China, South Korea etc. are all placing greater demand on the world's oil supply. The demand is for factories and production not for vehicles. Most factory and industrial equipment runs on diesel. I wouldn't look for break any time soon. Just my 2 cents.
 
One of the things I did not mention in my long thread above was that on any given day you are looking at about 20% of the populations of the country filling their tanks. So every 4 to 5 days the total supply of fuel that is available to the population of this country, completely turns over.



My personal thoughts are that yes, big oil tightly controls the market because of what was explained to me by my friend as posted earlier in this thread. The government says we are free to shop alternative sources, problem is, there are no alternative sources. Big oil is very well organized, the population of the country is not. Our elected officials, both Democrats, Republicans and others preach a good line, but thats all, just lip service. I don't see them serving the country in a public manner for the good of the public. What I see is very wealthy individuals in public office, showing a blind eye to inflated profit taking by big oil.



Unless someone can create a viable alternative to oil, it is just going to get worse. I think we as a country have the abilty, I just don't think that the politicians or big oil have the will power to change and allow or research a viable alternative to oil. They don't want to loose their short term CASH COW.
 
One thing we can all do is write our senators and representatives! If no one complains to them, they will do nothing! It seems that every time the congress begins to look at the price of fuel it comes down. And they won't look if we don't complain to them! The average person driving a gas burner is tickled pink at the price of gas! It is almost as if they stole it! But the economy runs on diesel. WRITE your senator and representative and complain! Get your neighbors and friends to write! You have to get their attention and griping here won't do it!
 
I Agree with Mundgyver

It's all about the money. Do you think oil lobbyists are any less powerful than tobacco lobbyists? The tobacco industry kills how many people a year? yet we see little change in that industry. Why? because it is too lucrative. The same with oil. I think it's going to take some extremely wealthy entrepreneurs to come up with an alternative that is marketable. A conglomerate of individuals with the wealth of people like Bill Gates is what it would take to compete with "big oil". You can write your Congressman all you want. It's not going to change.



You would think that Katrina and the like would have been a wake up call to become less dependent on fossil fuel for our civilization to exist. It's scary how dependent man is on oil. Without it, there would be chaos and the world as we know it would be as if an EMP bomb detonated. What part of NON-RENEWABLE RESOURCE don't we understand?
 
Europe pretty much screwed us by proving that people will pay the going rate for fuel. Now the US companies are simply jacking us in the name of "Global Economy". What I hate is the propoganda! Shortly before the hurricanes hit, I recall reading that we do not use the oil that we produce. Our oil is exported and we use imported oil. That all seems to have mysteriously changed when refineries shut down due to the storms.
 
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