I have worked all the way up to 12,000 miles on my 2002 CTD with an automatic in it. I love it and won't buy anything other that more dodge trucks. I have seen promotions for Diesel fuel additives and I am curious if anybody has any info they would like to share with me. Does it help, does it hurt? Any problems with lift pump or injection pump? Recommendations, or other wise entertaining stories to share. Thanks for the feed back.
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Diesel fuel additive
- Thread starter dclassens
- Start Date
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dclassens
I too have a 2002 auto. I have been using Stanadyne's Performance Formula since my 5th tank. When I first started using it the only thing I noticed was better cold starts. After 5-6 months use, I tried a tank of straight #2 and definately could tell the Stanadyne was not in there. The truck was not as responsive ( more power from improved cetane ) as it was with the Stanandyne. The main reason I use it though, is for fuel system lubrication. I now have about 18,500 miles on my CTD and have had 0 problems with it so far.
I too have a 2002 auto. I have been using Stanadyne's Performance Formula since my 5th tank. When I first started using it the only thing I noticed was better cold starts. After 5-6 months use, I tried a tank of straight #2 and definately could tell the Stanadyne was not in there. The truck was not as responsive ( more power from improved cetane ) as it was with the Stanandyne. The main reason I use it though, is for fuel system lubrication. I now have about 18,500 miles on my CTD and have had 0 problems with it so far.
I use LE's diesel additive. There was a nice comparison thread about a lot of the additives a while back. Try searching for it. I went with LE's because for the money you get more additive protection. I think i paid about 130 for a case, and i've only burned through 2 bottles of it in the last 6 months. I only use about 1 oz. for 8 gallons of diesel.
I'm about to change over to LE's power steering fluid as well.
p. s. LE is lubrication engineer's website is www.le-inc.com
i'm not affiliated with them.
I'm about to change over to LE's power steering fluid as well.
p. s. LE is lubrication engineer's website is www.le-inc.com
i'm not affiliated with them.
I run the Red Line 85 plus in my CTD and love the power difference. It also cuts some of the smoke away, which I really don't care about, but the it does lubricate the fuel well. The new fuels that are being produced, espesially here in CA are really low on sulfur. Back in the late 80's and early 90's #2 diesel ran a sulfur content of around 1000 ppm (parts per million). EPAand CARB have forced that level down to about 200 ppm now, and are trying to get to 0ppm in the near futur. The sulfur is on of the lubricating ingredients for diesel. Thats why everyones old fords and chevs developed fuel leaks in the early to mid 90's was the change in fuels was so dry that the seals weren't being lubricated and were drying up. I wouldn't dare run my truck without some sort of fuel lubricant.
dclassens
You should do a forums search on Premium Diesel. I read one a while back ( I think it was titled "Best Fuel" or something like that. ) and some people seem to think that Premium Diesel is a rip off. I personaly have not done the research. I fill up at Flying J just because there is a steady stream of diesel trucks filling up there, sometimes I have to wait 15-20 min. for a pump. So I figure my fuel is fresh. They do not offer Premium Diesel there, so that's why I haven't done too much research myself.
You should do a forums search on Premium Diesel. I read one a while back ( I think it was titled "Best Fuel" or something like that. ) and some people seem to think that Premium Diesel is a rip off. I personaly have not done the research. I fill up at Flying J just because there is a steady stream of diesel trucks filling up there, sometimes I have to wait 15-20 min. for a pump. So I figure my fuel is fresh. They do not offer Premium Diesel there, so that's why I haven't done too much research myself.
I would recommend you NOT use the premium diesel fuel. WHY? It is alway recommended that you buy diesel from a high volume dealer, that way you get the freshest cleanest fuel. When you buy the Premium diesel even from a high volume dealer you are buying a fuel that is sold in very low volume and could be very old and contaminated. Also the definition of Premium is not what you think, it only has to have very limited additives to be advertised as premium. DON'T buy the Premium diesel. I would suggest you buy the straight #2 diesel. If you want to use an additive pick one of the ones mentioned and add it yourself.
Just a slight correction on the sulfur issue. The removal of the sulfur did not cause the modern diesel fuel to lose lubrication, it was the process that is used to remove the sulfur that required the refiners too add properties to modern diesel fuel to increase lubrication. There is not a problem using low sulfur fuel. But if it concerns you use an additive to increase the fuel lubrication. If you do a search you will find that many of the members that have several 100K miles on their trucks never use a fuel additive and Cummins recommends that you don't use one unless it is very very cold and then use one to keep the fuel from jelling.
Cummins does not recommend using fuel or oil additives. I tried fuel additives for a short time but couldn't see any improvement in performance or fuel mileage.
When I had the fuel filter changed at the dealer I was able to chat with the mechanic afterwards about things to do to take care of the motor. When I got to fuel additives he definitely was against them for a number of reasons. One that made the most sense to me was that additives can cause contaminants (like water) in the fuel system to go into "suspension" and get past the fuel filter which is bad news for the VP44. Like I said, I couldn't see where the additives were doing anything for the motor so I've decided not to use them anymore. With a 100,000 mile warranty at stake I'll follow their advice.
BTW: On a recent return from camping in Nevada I managed to get 24. 2 mpg with nothing but quality diesel in the tank. Average speed was 63 mph.
IMHO: I think we probably worry too much about our trucks. I've been trying to enjoy the truck more these days and worry less about "hurting" it. I've even gotten to the point where I don't seem to mind the fact it's almost impossible to keep the truck going in a straight line down the freeway.
When I had the fuel filter changed at the dealer I was able to chat with the mechanic afterwards about things to do to take care of the motor. When I got to fuel additives he definitely was against them for a number of reasons. One that made the most sense to me was that additives can cause contaminants (like water) in the fuel system to go into "suspension" and get past the fuel filter which is bad news for the VP44. Like I said, I couldn't see where the additives were doing anything for the motor so I've decided not to use them anymore. With a 100,000 mile warranty at stake I'll follow their advice.
BTW: On a recent return from camping in Nevada I managed to get 24. 2 mpg with nothing but quality diesel in the tank. Average speed was 63 mph.
IMHO: I think we probably worry too much about our trucks. I've been trying to enjoy the truck more these days and worry less about "hurting" it. I've even gotten to the point where I don't seem to mind the fact it's almost impossible to keep the truck going in a straight line down the freeway.
Some info from Chevron about diesel fuels:
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/diesel/
Definition of Premium Diesel fuel from Chevron:
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/diesel/L2_5_2_fs.htm
Info on Sulfur / Lubricity:
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/diesel/l2_2_5_rf.htm
California's fuel lubricity info:
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/diesel/l2_7_2_rf.htm
California: A Special Case Because of its unique diesel fuel regulations, California is a special case. California regulations restrict the aromatics content of diesel fuel in order to reduce emissions. The regulations can be met either with a low aromatics diesel (LAD) having less than 10% aromatics, or with an alternative low aromatics diesel (ALAD) formulation that gives an equivalent reduction in emissions (see Chapter 3). Many of these ALAD formulations use cetane number improvers to help achieve the necessary emissions reduction. As a result, a significant percentage of the low aromatic diesel fuel now sold in California contains some cetane number improver. 1
Reducing diesel aromatic content to 10% requires more severe hydrotreating than reducing sulfur content. As a result, the lubricity of some LAD may be low, so some refiners may treat the fuel with a lubricity additive. (In the rest of the U. S. , hydrotreating to remove sulfur may reduce lubricity, but not enough to require a lubricity additive. )
Another Sulfur / Lubricity info page:
http://usapc.army.mil/miscellaneous/Lubricity.doc
In October 1993, EPA limited sulfur in diesel fuel for “on-road” vehicles to a maximum of 0. 05% or 500 parts per million (PPM). This created many fuel related problems that resulted from the poor lubricating quality of the low sulfur diesel fuel. Since the maximum limit for sulfur in diesel fuel prior to October 1993 had been 0. 50% or 5000 PPM, the refinery processing not only lowered the sulfur content but also removed trace amounts of certain polar impurities. Both organo-sulfur compounds and these polar impurities were the ingredients that gave diesel fuel its needed natural lubricating qualities.
Some info from Bosch about fuel lubricity. Scroll down to page 15 for the VP-44 tests.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/cbg/meeting/2003/022003bosch.pdf
Fleetguard's fuel additives:
http://www.nelsondiv.com/en/regional_news/en_news_usa_story1.jhtml
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/diesel/
Definition of Premium Diesel fuel from Chevron:
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/diesel/L2_5_2_fs.htm
Info on Sulfur / Lubricity:
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/diesel/l2_2_5_rf.htm
California's fuel lubricity info:
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/diesel/l2_7_2_rf.htm
California: A Special Case Because of its unique diesel fuel regulations, California is a special case. California regulations restrict the aromatics content of diesel fuel in order to reduce emissions. The regulations can be met either with a low aromatics diesel (LAD) having less than 10% aromatics, or with an alternative low aromatics diesel (ALAD) formulation that gives an equivalent reduction in emissions (see Chapter 3). Many of these ALAD formulations use cetane number improvers to help achieve the necessary emissions reduction. As a result, a significant percentage of the low aromatic diesel fuel now sold in California contains some cetane number improver. 1
Reducing diesel aromatic content to 10% requires more severe hydrotreating than reducing sulfur content. As a result, the lubricity of some LAD may be low, so some refiners may treat the fuel with a lubricity additive. (In the rest of the U. S. , hydrotreating to remove sulfur may reduce lubricity, but not enough to require a lubricity additive. )
Another Sulfur / Lubricity info page:
http://usapc.army.mil/miscellaneous/Lubricity.doc
In October 1993, EPA limited sulfur in diesel fuel for “on-road” vehicles to a maximum of 0. 05% or 500 parts per million (PPM). This created many fuel related problems that resulted from the poor lubricating quality of the low sulfur diesel fuel. Since the maximum limit for sulfur in diesel fuel prior to October 1993 had been 0. 50% or 5000 PPM, the refinery processing not only lowered the sulfur content but also removed trace amounts of certain polar impurities. Both organo-sulfur compounds and these polar impurities were the ingredients that gave diesel fuel its needed natural lubricating qualities.
Some info from Bosch about fuel lubricity. Scroll down to page 15 for the VP-44 tests.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/cbg/meeting/2003/022003bosch.pdf
Fleetguard's fuel additives:
http://www.nelsondiv.com/en/regional_news/en_news_usa_story1.jhtml
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The refinery puts additives in the fuel. I don't like to listen to the "parts" changers at the dealership. I find that I know a lot more about the CTD then they do. I think it is just personal choice, using or not using a DFA. I don't think a name brand DFA would hurt your CTD. Might even help?? The debate goes on :-{}
TYPES OF ADDITIVES
Diesel Engine Performance Additives This class of additives can improve engine performance. The effects of different members of the class are seen in different time frames. Any benefit provided by a cetane number improver is immediate, whereas that provided by detergent additives or lubricity additives is typically seen over the long term, often measured in tens of thousands of miles.
Cetane Number Improvers (Diesel Ignition Improvers) Cetane number improvers can reduce combustion noise and smoke. The magnitude of the benefit varies among engine designs and operating modes, ranging from no effect to readily perceptible improvement.
2-Ethylhexyl nitrate (EHN) is the most widely used cetane number improver. It is sometimes also called octyl nitrate. EHN is thermally unstable and decomposes rapidly at the high temperatures in the combustion chamber. The products of decomposition help initiate fuel combustion and, thus, shorten the ignition delay period from that of the fuel without the additive.
The increase in cetane number from a given concentration of EHN varies from one fuel to another. It is greater for a fuel whose natural cetane number is already relatively high. The incremental increase gets smaller as more EHN is added, so there is little benefit to exceeding a certain concentration. EHN typically is used in the concentration range of 0. 05% mass to 0. 4% mass and may yield a 3 to 8 cetane number benefit.
Other alkyl nitrates, as well as ether nitrates and some nitroso compounds, also have been found to be effective cetane number improvers, but they are not currently used commercially. Di-tertiary butyl peroxide was recently introduced as a commercial cetane number improver.
A disadvantage of EHN is that it decreases the thermal stability of some fuels. The effect of the other cetane number improvers on thermal stability is unknown, but it seems likely that they will be similarly disadvantaged. Several laboratories are investigating this issue.
Injector Cleanliness Additives Fuel and/or crankcase lubricant can form deposits in the nozzle area of injectors – the area exposed to high cylinder temperatures. The extent of deposit formation varies with engine design, fuel composition, lubricant composition, and operating conditions. Excessive deposits may upset the injector spray pattern (see Figure 7-1) which, in turn, may hinder the fuel-air mixing process. In some engines, this may result in decreased fuel economy and increased emissions.
Ashless polymeric detergent additives can clean up fuel injector deposits and/or keep injectors clean (see Figure 7-2). These additives are composed of a polar group that bonds to deposits and deposit precursors, and a non-polar group that dissolves in the fuel. Thus, the additive can redissolve deposits that already have formed and reduce the opportunity for deposit precursors to form deposits. Detergent additives typically are used in the concentration range of 50 ppm to 300 ppm.
Lubricity Additives Lubricity additives are used to compensate for the poor lubricity of severely hydrotreated diesel fuels (see Chapter 2). They contain a polar group that is attracted to metal surfaces, causing the additive to form a thin surface film. The film acts as a boundary lubricant when two metal surfaces come in contact. Two additive chemistries, fatty acids and esters, are commonly used. The fatty acid type is typically used in the concentration range of 10 ppm to 50 ppm. Since esters are less polar, they require a higher concentration range of 50 ppm to 250 ppm.
Diesel Engine Performance Additives This class of additives can improve engine performance. The effects of different members of the class are seen in different time frames. Any benefit provided by a cetane number improver is immediate, whereas that provided by detergent additives or lubricity additives is typically seen over the long term, often measured in tens of thousands of miles.
Cetane Number Improvers (Diesel Ignition Improvers) Cetane number improvers can reduce combustion noise and smoke. The magnitude of the benefit varies among engine designs and operating modes, ranging from no effect to readily perceptible improvement.
2-Ethylhexyl nitrate (EHN) is the most widely used cetane number improver. It is sometimes also called octyl nitrate. EHN is thermally unstable and decomposes rapidly at the high temperatures in the combustion chamber. The products of decomposition help initiate fuel combustion and, thus, shorten the ignition delay period from that of the fuel without the additive.
The increase in cetane number from a given concentration of EHN varies from one fuel to another. It is greater for a fuel whose natural cetane number is already relatively high. The incremental increase gets smaller as more EHN is added, so there is little benefit to exceeding a certain concentration. EHN typically is used in the concentration range of 0. 05% mass to 0. 4% mass and may yield a 3 to 8 cetane number benefit.
Other alkyl nitrates, as well as ether nitrates and some nitroso compounds, also have been found to be effective cetane number improvers, but they are not currently used commercially. Di-tertiary butyl peroxide was recently introduced as a commercial cetane number improver.
A disadvantage of EHN is that it decreases the thermal stability of some fuels. The effect of the other cetane number improvers on thermal stability is unknown, but it seems likely that they will be similarly disadvantaged. Several laboratories are investigating this issue.
Injector Cleanliness Additives Fuel and/or crankcase lubricant can form deposits in the nozzle area of injectors – the area exposed to high cylinder temperatures. The extent of deposit formation varies with engine design, fuel composition, lubricant composition, and operating conditions. Excessive deposits may upset the injector spray pattern (see Figure 7-1) which, in turn, may hinder the fuel-air mixing process. In some engines, this may result in decreased fuel economy and increased emissions.
Ashless polymeric detergent additives can clean up fuel injector deposits and/or keep injectors clean (see Figure 7-2). These additives are composed of a polar group that bonds to deposits and deposit precursors, and a non-polar group that dissolves in the fuel. Thus, the additive can redissolve deposits that already have formed and reduce the opportunity for deposit precursors to form deposits. Detergent additives typically are used in the concentration range of 50 ppm to 300 ppm.
Lubricity Additives Lubricity additives are used to compensate for the poor lubricity of severely hydrotreated diesel fuels (see Chapter 2). They contain a polar group that is attracted to metal surfaces, causing the additive to form a thin surface film. The film acts as a boundary lubricant when two metal surfaces come in contact. Two additive chemistries, fatty acids and esters, are commonly used. The fatty acid type is typically used in the concentration range of 10 ppm to 50 ppm. Since esters are less polar, they require a higher concentration range of 50 ppm to 250 ppm.
FYI;
A Quote from Overfueled, TDR thread June 2001
Diesel Fuel Modifier, Is it worth it?
I sold my DDII’s with about 30,000 miles on them. I puled them out and boxed them up to ship them to a person in Texas. I took the rubber cap off the V’s and slid it right on the DDII’s I didn’t really look at them (I was more interested in the V’s) I got an email back that I think is of worthy notice to post.
"Couple of quick questions.
How many miles are on the injectors and do you run any type of fuel additive to your diesel. The reason I ask, is
because the tips of the injectors are so clean. I originally installed a set of 275 injectors in my truck. I worked like hell to get what I thought to be a thick layer of carbon off them. You couldn't even get the copper washers off. After I pulled my stock injectors, they had about as much carbon as the used 275's had. Yours look almost pristine, and I am trying to figure out how you keep them like that. I can only imagine that the rest of your combustion chamber must be as spick and span at the injector"
Yes, I did use a fuel additive Amsoil Diesel Fuel Modifier.
I use it in every tank. Amsoil did pay off.
OverFueled
A Quote from Overfueled, TDR thread June 2001
Diesel Fuel Modifier, Is it worth it?
I sold my DDII’s with about 30,000 miles on them. I puled them out and boxed them up to ship them to a person in Texas. I took the rubber cap off the V’s and slid it right on the DDII’s I didn’t really look at them (I was more interested in the V’s) I got an email back that I think is of worthy notice to post.
"Couple of quick questions.
How many miles are on the injectors and do you run any type of fuel additive to your diesel. The reason I ask, is
because the tips of the injectors are so clean. I originally installed a set of 275 injectors in my truck. I worked like hell to get what I thought to be a thick layer of carbon off them. You couldn't even get the copper washers off. After I pulled my stock injectors, they had about as much carbon as the used 275's had. Yours look almost pristine, and I am trying to figure out how you keep them like that. I can only imagine that the rest of your combustion chamber must be as spick and span at the injector"
Yes, I did use a fuel additive Amsoil Diesel Fuel Modifier.
I use it in every tank. Amsoil did pay off.
OverFueled
I've always liked what the Chevron site has to say about additives. I have 200k with no additives except for winter anti-gel, it is a 12 valve though.
Aftermarket Additives It would be convenient for the user if a finished diesel fuel could satisfy all his or her requirements without the use of supplemental additives. Although this is often the case, some users must use additives because the low temperature conditions in their region are more severe than those for which the fuel was designed, or because of other special circumstances. Other users feel that they need a higher quality diesel than regular diesel.
A large number of aftermarket additive products are available to meet these real or perceived needs. Some are aggressively marketed with testimonials and bold performance claims that seem "too good to be true. " So, as with any purchase, it is wise to remember the advice, caveat emptor – let the buyer beware.
It may be helpful to regard additives as medicine for fuel. Like medicine, they should be prescribed by an expert who has made an effort to diagnose the problem. And they should be used in accordance with the recommendations of the engine manufacturer and the instructions of the additive supplier. Sometimes indiscriminant use of additives can do more harm than good because of unexpected interactions.
Aftermarket Additives It would be convenient for the user if a finished diesel fuel could satisfy all his or her requirements without the use of supplemental additives. Although this is often the case, some users must use additives because the low temperature conditions in their region are more severe than those for which the fuel was designed, or because of other special circumstances. Other users feel that they need a higher quality diesel than regular diesel.
A large number of aftermarket additive products are available to meet these real or perceived needs. Some are aggressively marketed with testimonials and bold performance claims that seem "too good to be true. " So, as with any purchase, it is wise to remember the advice, caveat emptor – let the buyer beware.
It may be helpful to regard additives as medicine for fuel. Like medicine, they should be prescribed by an expert who has made an effort to diagnose the problem. And they should be used in accordance with the recommendations of the engine manufacturer and the instructions of the additive supplier. Sometimes indiscriminant use of additives can do more harm than good because of unexpected interactions.
Like I said before, there's a 100,000 mile warranty on the line and Cummins does not recommend or endorse ANY fuel additives. What the mechanic at the dealership said was just more reason for me to not use it.
The links in the earlier post (Chevron) are very good reading, they seem to back up the notion that the additives do not increase fuel economy or reduce emissions. The lubricity issue remains sketchy but it appears to be something the refiners monitor and correct for as needed.
I agree, it's probably a personal decision but I can't find any hard data to support using it.
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$$, It's !the service after the sale;
If you happened to read my previous reply "FYI" above, it would appear obvious that some additives truly do provide a valuable service or advantage. Fact is that most manufactures depend on the income after the warrenty period to provide them with a very nice profit. To believe that the majority of manufacturers put everything into their product that is required to make it perform to it's utmost and require nothing further is to be misinformed !! With manufacturers, It's more a matter of competition for market share, profit margin and future growth in sales !!
Price most any product as a whole unit and then price it by it's individual parts. Even the many owners of the vehicles described in these threads can't seem to stop purchasing "additives" to enhance a "perfectly good (??) truck or engine"
Like trucks, engines, oils, fuels, etc. , there are some very good and some not so good. This creates the need for additives, the good additives, when properly used... do make an improvement most all of the time.
And the manufactures don't like that !!!
Respectfully submitted
) Dick S.
If you happened to read my previous reply "FYI" above, it would appear obvious that some additives truly do provide a valuable service or advantage. Fact is that most manufactures depend on the income after the warrenty period to provide them with a very nice profit. To believe that the majority of manufacturers put everything into their product that is required to make it perform to it's utmost and require nothing further is to be misinformed !! With manufacturers, It's more a matter of competition for market share, profit margin and future growth in sales !!
Price most any product as a whole unit and then price it by it's individual parts. Even the many owners of the vehicles described in these threads can't seem to stop purchasing "additives" to enhance a "perfectly good (??) truck or engine"
Like trucks, engines, oils, fuels, etc. , there are some very good and some not so good. This creates the need for additives, the good additives, when properly used... do make an improvement most all of the time.
And the manufactures don't like that !!!
Respectfully submitted
) Dick S.Futures1 wrote: If you happened to read my previous reply "FYI" above, it would appear obvious that some additives truly do provide a valuable service or advantage.
FYI: From what I could see the anti-gelling additive was the only one that had a practical application. If you live in an area with really cold weather that additive makes sense.
I'll repeat myself one more time and move on: If you think the additives are helping then go ahead and use them. The links in a previous post to Chevron (as far as I know they don't make diesel engines) made it clear that combustion catalyst type additives had no effect on fuel economy or emissions reduction. Most of the additives people are using claim to increase the cetane rating which would classify them as a combustion catalyst additive.
And there's still the problem with the additives causing water in the fuel going into a suspension state and getting past the fuel filter/water separator.
I'm willing to bet you could give 100 CTD owners an additive, give another 100 CTD owners something that looks like an additive and sit back and watch all the testemonials start pouring in from all 200 of them.
FYI: From what I could see the anti-gelling additive was the only one that had a practical application. If you live in an area with really cold weather that additive makes sense.
I'll repeat myself one more time and move on: If you think the additives are helping then go ahead and use them. The links in a previous post to Chevron (as far as I know they don't make diesel engines) made it clear that combustion catalyst type additives had no effect on fuel economy or emissions reduction. Most of the additives people are using claim to increase the cetane rating which would classify them as a combustion catalyst additive.
And there's still the problem with the additives causing water in the fuel going into a suspension state and getting past the fuel filter/water separator.
I'm willing to bet you could give 100 CTD owners an additive, give another 100 CTD owners something that looks like an additive and sit back and watch all the testemonials start pouring in from all 200 of them.
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