Diesel Fuel and Acetone

[RWWinslow]

A while back there was a thread on the mixture of diesel fuel and very small quantities of acetone.



Following up as promised on: 2 to 3 oz's of acetone mixed in with each 10 gallons of fuel.



1) This mixture study has been ongoing for the past 8 weeks - about 5,000 miles worth of driving in the Western US.



2) Mileage has increased from 5% to 20% - it depends upon the source of fuel. We have a number of refineries in this region so the fuel source can vary somewhat.



3) It took a while (4 to 6 weeks) for the mileage increase to show up - now seeing 23 mpg at 67 mph at 6,500' elevation on a rather regular basis.



4) Sound levels at idle dropped 3 dB as measured 3 feet from the left front fender.



5) Smoke and 'diesel odor' has decreased significantly. This is an indirect measurement of improved combustion.



6) Acceleration is definitely improved with much less smoke. Turbo lag is significantly reduced.



I have been in contact with the original researchers on this subject and the science / engineering behind this work is extensive and very sound. Do not expect 'over-night / miraculous results', this is also very consistant with the original research and engineering development.

 

[tugboatphil]

RW,



Is this something that YOU are doing? Or is this a white lab coat and clipboard project? And is this the same acetone that is nail polish remover?



Enquiring minds want to know!

 

[RWWinslow]

This was a white lab coat / clipboard project for a number of years (20 plus) and it is now something that I am doing. . . . . .



Acetone is in nail polish remover - however use pure acetone - you can purchase it at Wally World. Acetone is also a component of lacquer thinner and it is used in a lot of fiberglass and auto body work.

 

[RailroadJim]

So the guys in the lab coats found no ill effects thus far, ie. . drying of seals, o-rings, etc... . ?

 

[RWWinslow]

No ill effects noted. There have been a number of soak tests over the years on various seal and gasketing materials. The quantity / amount is so small that the expected impact on materials would be insignificant. On one Ford gasoline engine with 400,000 miles, upper cylinder wear was mic'd to be only . 003" to . 004".

 

[JLEONARD]

I always hated chemistry.....

That said, I'm trying to understand how that little bit diluted in diesel would help so much.



So that would be 9 oz of acetone for a 30 gallon tank.

I have a supply catalog at my desk (not the best price granted) that lists acetone at $12/gallon. That's $0. 84 for that 9 oz.

Your "average" mileage claim is 12. 5%. So figuring that based on a normal 20 mpg that would net you 22. 5 mpg or 75 more miles per tankfull for that $. 84 investment.

But figuring one tank of fuel per week, it will take 4 weeks, or an investment of $3. 36 worth of acetone (about the same as one gal of diesel today) untill you gain that 75 miles per tankfull.

Did I mess anything up? Or did my calculator batteries burn out?

 

[RWWinslow]

Looks like your calculator is humming along correctly - and as you pointed out there is a small up front investment to get to the point of return. My acetone cost is $. 125 per oz and at a dilution rate of 2 oz per 10 gallon - I am adding $. 025 of cost per gallon of diesel ($. 25 of acetone / 10 gallons of fuel). At $3. 00 / gallon in this part of the world, that translates to < 1% increase in fueling costs. On a 20 gallon fill, the cost before acetone is $60. 00. Post acetone, the fill requirement for the same miles operated is 19 gallon (assumed a very conservative 5% increase in fuel mileage and therefore 5% less fuel consumed) and therefore the cost is $57. 00. Since $. 050 is the cost of acetone for 20 gallon, the actual cost savings is:

$60. 00 - $57. 00 + $. 050 for a total of $2. 50. Not much but when multiplied over months it does start to add up. And, if the engine runs cleaner, wear is reduced and longevity is increased.

 

[tugboatphil]

$0. 84 for that 9 oz..... 12. 5%... . 20 mpg... . 22. 5 mpg or 75 more miles..... $. 84 .

Whooooooweeeee!! Jay! You might not know chemistry, but you shore kin cipher!! My head hurt from readin that! I tried keeping up with you, but couldn't get my shoelaces undone. :-laf

 

[RWWinslow]

Or as you pointed out - 75 miles improvement for an investment of $. 84 in acetone. At 22. 5 mpg and $3. 00 per gallon, that equates to a 3. 33 gallon improvement and at $3 / gallon fuel cost that resulst in a $10 return. In other words the $. 84 acetone investment results in a $10 return by your numbers.

 

[RailroadJim]

The return may not be substantial early on, but if it does everything claimed in the post then the improved acceleration makes it more than worth the while. I've been thinking about trying it for awhile, i don't think i'm scared anymore, thanks for the info. Now the question is where, on the map, does most of our available acetone come from and do we have a war or a hurricane going on there?

 

[Mundgyver]

You can buy Acetone in 1 gal cans from Home Depot in their paint section. I have already tried 4 oz to a full tank 34 gallons two weeks ago. Figure 1 oz for 10 gallons of fuel. The mileage for that tank was 21. 3 but with that said my truck gets 24 mpg if I am reasonable. This was mixed driving with some (I am in a hurry and need to get home from the coast speed).



I have a trip over to Idaho and back for a total of 1500 miles. I will be using 8 oz or 2 oz for 10 gallons of fuel on this upcomming run to see how it does. Normally I will get 22. 8 mpg on this drive of 715 miles one way at 65 mph. So we will see how we do this time and I will post my results.

 

[Bob Beauchaine]

I talked with a customer of mine and he noted a 2 to 3 mpg highway increase and about a 2 mpg city increase on an Toyota 4-Runner. He said he researched it thoroughy and has seen no ill effects in 3 months of driving.



Bob

 

[Mundgyver]

This is a link to a site that was shown to me when I posted a question about Aceton a couple of weeks ago here on TDR. Some interesting reading.



http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Acetone_as_a_Fuel_Additive

 

[RailroadJim]

Good link

That's some good reading, it mentions an aftermarket catylist called enviromax plus being substantially better than pure acetone, has anyone tried this stuff?

 

[Donn]

A while back there was a thread on the mixture of diesel fuel and very small quantities of acetone.



Following up as promised on: 2 to 3 oz's of acetone mixed in with each 10 gallons of fuel.



1) This mixture study has been ongoing for the past 8 weeks - about 5,000 miles worth of driving in the Western US.



2) Mileage has increased from 5% to 20% - it depends upon the source of fuel. We have a number of refineries in this region so the fuel source can vary somewhat.



3) It took a while (4 to 6 weeks) for the mileage increase to show up - now seeing 23 mpg at 67 mph at 6,500' elevation on a rather regular basis.



4) Sound levels at idle dropped 3 dB as measured 3 feet from the left front fender.



5) Smoke and 'diesel odor' has decreased significantly. This is an indirect measurement of improved combustion.



6) Acceleration is definitely improved with much less smoke. Turbo lag is significantly reduced.



I have been in contact with the original researchers on this subject and the science / engineering behind this work is extensive and very sound. Do not expect 'over-night / miraculous results', this is also very consistant with the original research and engineering development.

Results will be on the twilightzone saturday at 6:00

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Did I miss something or was this testing all done with/for gasoline engines... ????



pb...

 

[JLEONARD]

Did I miss something or was this testing all done with/for gasoline engines... ????

That's the way I read it to pb... .

But they did have a curve showing the diesel improvement vs percent of acetone. I don't know if that is from testing or from theory.

 

[Greenleaf]

Last week I had two days of diesel fuel training and nothing was mentioned about Acetone. Just about everything else, but no acetone. I would have thought if this was an up and coming thing it would have been mentioned. The class evolved around diesel fuel and diesel emissions.



GL

 

[RWWinslow]

Testing of the acetone additive has been done on both gas and diesel. Class 8 trucks have been tested with mixed results in terms of the amount of fuel economy improvements - and this is typical of most fuel additives tests. Acetone is one of the main contributors to most diesel fuel additives currently sold on the market. There has been significant research performed on diesel fuel additives and the results of that research can be found on the web with a little digging.



My main purpose in starting this thread was to pass along information for your use . . . . nothing more - make your own informed decisions - this discussion thread is only one very small piece of the puzzle. I drive in very rural areas and the same routes on a repetitive basis. The vehicle used is in good mechanical condition and is operated and fueled by the same driver. . . . . in essence most of the inherent variables in any real world, fuel additive / mileage study are consistantly controlled. In addition, I have found significant variability in results based on which refinery produced the fuel.



Finally, one additional point of discussion; I have noted over the years, that a number of folks swear by different fuel additives. I have not found any of these to work for me in this area of the country - however, I have sincerely appreciated the willingness of other members to share their experiences and provide additional insight for all of us.



If you would like additional information re the engineering, combustion theory, and chemistry behind this fuel additive approach, please e-mail me privately. At this point in the discussion, I request the moderator close this thread since the discussion is wandering away from its original purpose - sharing of technical information.

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

WOooooo hold up RW... . I think this is doing just what it should... making us guys think outside the box for a bit... . personally I had NEVER considered acetone as a viable additive... I, personally, was/am interested enough to visit the link you posted AND do a little more digging.

For most of us, who've cranked up the performance on these trucks, any product that will make that much difference in mileage is a worthy topic... .

If the rest of the guys don't agree then I'd be willing to close this thread but lets see what the group thinks first...

I'd hate to see an informative issue get shut down unnecessarily here... I like it personally...



pb...



edit: as a matter of fact I have another question on this thing.....



The use of water/meth is becoming very common lately... . when used the recommendation is to be sure that the system is shut off and you run only #2 fuel for at least 5 minutes before shutdown... I assume to be sure that the upper cylinder walls are not left dry or with residue in them. .

I wonder what the side effects regarding these issues are when it comes to acetone...

Do we have the potential of diluting engine oil or breaking it down or contamination assuming "normal" cylinder wear????



Lastly, can the potential for the product(s) tendancy to dry out cylinders be compensated for by using/using more lubricity products, perhaps even something like 2 stroke oil ???... .