diesel gelling at the station fuel pump?

[wheatman]

we had a cold snap in KC today... 15F when i stopped to fuel up. The guys at the station were busy changing the fuel filters on the pumps... said the pumps were running slow. I waited for them to finish and figured the tanks are in ground so gelling shouldn't be a problem... added my stanadyne but still when i went to fill up the pumps were only pumping like 1. 3-1. 5 gpm. took me 20 minutes to fill up literally. I don't know if their blend was gelling with the cold, thought in ground tanks wouldn't be a problemo or if they just had a pump problem.



my question is... . is there any risk in running this fuel if in fact they were having gelling problems? does diesel gel as a whole or does it seperate out when gelling so what does flow has different properties than what is our engines require?



I've always had good fuel at this station and i know they turn over pretty decent. the fuel did have more foam than i'd ever seen before if this makes a difference... (guiness vs bud light type of head)

 

[opjohnny]

I think we have had winter blend for a while. If you are getting ultra instead of lsd it might plug a filter at the pump. It was almost 60 yesterday, it would take a while to chill the fuel stored in the ground. Where are you buying your fuel?

 

[wheatman]

i have found lsd almost impossible to find. i try to hit flying j when i can but this is stateline and 86th... not a truckstop but have bought fuel there for 3 years and no problemo and have talked to the delivery driver... they turn over diesel.

 

[Andersonville]

Ask the delivery driver if the fuel is treated prior to delivery? That is why I buy at truckstops(Fly J,Pilot) they treat their fuel OR the fuel was contaminated with water ?(way more than normal) Seen it before, the independant little stations dont treat the fuel and you drive into a cold snap and there you sit on the side of the road. VERY EXPENSIVE ROAD CALL. Get the red Power Service 911 and new fuel filter. If you dont trust your fuel source a couple gallons of unleaded in the tank will work. I use Howe's myself. YEAR ROUND Cheap insurance.

 

[jelag]

Fuel sitting in the ground is way above the gel point, and even fuel at 15*F is above the gel point... there should be no problem with any number 2 diesel until you get below the 10* F mark... they have something wrong with their pumping system..... In over 40 years in dealing with diesels I've never seen it slowly pump from the pump and be gelling.....



We have several trucks and have had several talks with fuel suppliers many years ago... here is what we have learned...



1 - fuel is blended down when the supplier knows that the weather will change... so a snap cold can catch him with his pants down... once winter sets in and it normally stays above 10 *F or so... . they do nothing... . and if you buy fuel and drive into cold weather you do so at your own risk...



2 - they blend fuel for their local area and than deliver it to the station with fuel that is not blended... lets say that the fuel in the tanks is 50%, and what they deliver is 50% of the total amount that will be in the ground... than you have to average whats happened and understand that the fuel pumped won't be blended down to the standard that it was before it came out of the tanker into the ground. .



3 - I've never seen a fuel stop, truck stop, or gas station take the time to understand what's happening and doing something about it at the station level... . it starts with the fuel distributor... even though majors tend to be 300% better than the smaller stations... . the huge advantage of the truck stops is the up to 100,000 gals a day that are pumped and the control of the fuel and delivery system... .



4 - remember that the truck driver of the fuel truck might or might not know... some drivers load their own trucks and do the blending in small operations... . in larger ones they just pull up to the loading bay and fill the truck with diesel...



I suggest that you plan for this... . and modify your fuel at the time you pump it... . we blend the fuel all year around now that we've changed to the new fuel... . the product we use is like the product that the distributor might use... 5 oz treats 120 gal.



You might consider if your really concerned. Pump 10 gal into a container... we have 130 gal tanks in the bed of each truck or can see into the tanks of our larger trucks. . we pump 10 gal and look into the tank... if its cloudy or red we stop... We have never had cloudy fuel... but have had the red dyed fuel in the wrong tank... . since we have to scale and are inspected at least 4 times a year per truck, we do not put red dyed fuel into the trucks... .



Hope this helps... BTW - it was 0 night before, -3 last night and is now -4 this evening here at the house... .

 

[NUKEMAN]

-20 to -30 here quite often and have never had fuel gel (even #2) from the pump at any station.

 

[TCDiesel]

We need to clarify the differences in BLENDED AND TREATED Fuels,Blended fuel contains a % of #1,Treated fuel is exactly that,it contains chemicals that lower the cloud point. Around here ,I hear owners asking the cashier what type of fuel do you have,O its good to -20,In realities it is blended 60/40 with #1. In Minnesota we have two types of treated Fuel Premium/Arctic. I stay away from ALL blended fuel,because it at best is a guess what the % is,also it cost mileage and lubricity. I think its best to ask if it is TREATED or BLENDED that way it is harder for the station to stay,O its good to -20. this is just a statement and not the facts. ( a statement don't keep the heater going on the road side at -20) or pay the down time or tow charge.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I wonder if the refiners have corrected the earlier reported issue of no available #1 ULSD for blending to make the "Winter blend" commonly used with the LSD?

 

[bmoeller]

Wheatman-



I would NOT put ANY gasoline in with the diesel. None, to very little lubricating properties. With the much tighter tolerances in the new fuel injection systems, it wouldn't be a good idea.



I use Howes in the winter. I run a double shot of it the first time I add any to the tanks, if I haven't used any for a few fillups when it was warmer.



I suspect they may have just had the tanks filled, and there was water or some other junk still floating around. Doesn't take long to plug a filter when that happens. Even as little as a second or 2 of pumping. Been there, done that.



There is a small station that I used to fuel up at in southern IA, and now, if I need any from them, I only get a few gallons to get me to a truckstop. Took a while, but I was able to track down where I was getting the dirty fuel. Was plugging up my filters on the truck. It only took one fillup, too. Usually ~115 gallons.

 

[Nate]

I have seen #1 fuel oil... . aka kerosene barely be able to be pumped. Above ground tank.



But then the #2 fuel oil, below ground was fine.

 

[wheatman]

i agree mixing gasoline with diesel is a recipe for disaster... paying $2. 50-$3 per tank for diesel treatment is cheap for the piece of mind.



I watched these guys change the filters on the pump and was the first to use after they changed them... but i'll keep an eye on my fuel pressure/filters just to make sure its not a really crappy load.



the thing i'm wondering about, is when diesel gels do the components seperate out... for instance would one end up with a layer of parafin and another layer of a distillate that wouldn't have diesel properties? So say if you got diesel from an above ground tank that was gelling, would the fuel you get lack lubrication qualities and have cetane issues?



i really believe they just had pump issues but it does cause me to think

 

[bmoeller]

The properties of the fuel itself doesn't change. Doesn't separate out, either. Just gells up like grease from fat will, when chilled.

 

[jelag]

TWest



Your right... I use the word blended as its our common phrase for either blended or treated diesel to prevent clouding or gelling at lower temperatures...



I also believe that no one at a station, usually has a clue what the temperature the fuel in the ground at any one time will cloud or gel... . and its the same for most truck stops... .



We have a local Pilot Truck Stop and a gal that works for me. . her hubby is the night manager of the place... I asked him a few days ago... if he had any clue what the gel point or cloud point was of the fuel in the ground... . he had no idea, just that the fuel distributor took care of it and they were getting from 2 to 3 tanks a day... .



Hope this helps. .



jim

 

[TCDiesel]

I am annal about the fuel that goes into My Company trucks and Personal,Yep Jim your right about the station employee's (Even Some Owners) ,most have no clue. I even ask to see the drop sheet,Here in Mn its required to have this available,When you look at it,It will have the New sulfur content,#2 clear,#2 Arctic,#2 Premium. If it is Blended, its at the station discretion. In most cases they don't even know when the filters are change. Most of the blends are done By Stick Measurements.

 

[Pawpaw]

A couple of years ago, on a business trip in Arkansas, there was one station I learned to stay away from in when the temps went below freezing. Their pumps would slow to a crawl.



I'm 500% sure this had nothing to do with fuel gelling, because this was on the GASOLINE pumps. I was filling a rental vehicle.



Wheatman's KC station almost certainly has some problem with their pumps.



Bob

 

[Cattletrkr]

A couple years ago I ran straight #2 with NO ANTIGEL and NO BLEND down to 0*F without gelling... for a couple months. That was by mistake, thinking the truck stop had blended/treated fuel which they didn't. Either way I never gelled up.



I don't know, but I haven't heard that ULSD has a higher gel point.



My pump at home slows down when it gets cold out, but the fuel is fine.

 

[jelag]

TWest...



I'm like you... one winter about 10 years ago I had one gel up on the highway in -20*F, driver called and said it was just running so slow... . I talked him through looking into the tank with a flash light... . he couldn't see the bottom and I told him not to shut it off... He said he already had... I said restart it no and treat it now... . He had driven from a warm place to a very cold place... . and hadn't thought... I bet it cost me a grand to get the truck and trailer into a bay, and let it heat soak to get the thing started..... had to be towed... . sometimes it just comes back and bites you... know what I mean...



Jim