Diesel or Fuel Economy Performance Chip

[MedicGuy71]

I recently purchased a 2004 DOdge Ram 3500 Heavy Duty Diesel, the 5. 9 L 600 Series Cummins. I have heard form everybody and their brother about opinions related to "Chip"ing the motor. I have heard some running an "Accelerator Quadzilla" or "Edge" with awesome fuel economy. What do some of the cummins owners here reccommend?? Every little bit helps!!



Thanks,



Big Bill

 

[Wingate]

I would put a Smarty Jr on it.

 

[JJPage]

Until you get very acquainted with the truck, I would not do anything at this point. Get used to it as it is, then if/when you change something later, you will be better able to judge it's affect.

Any claims of huge mileage gains by a fuel box or programmer are mostly false, you may get 1 to 1. 5 mpg gain by timing only and that is doubtful unless you drive delicately.

Does your truck have a standard or auto trans? Since you are claiming a 600 series, it must be a 2004. 5 model year with the 325 hp motor. If you are hell bent on a power/fuel upgrade, I also vote for Smarty(JR or SR), but until other upgrades like a built auto trans or clutch are completed, you will be limited to Smarty's lowest level of performance, lest you be wanting to waste $ on repairs...

Jess

 

[Fiver]

JJ hit it right on the nose. Wait a while, get used to the truck, then move on if you feel the need. After driving mine for a couple of years, I went with the Smarty Jr, may have helped the fuel economy a bit but I have never programmed any setting higher than the minimum. With my RV trailer and driving habits, never needed any more extra power. Good luck, sounds like a nice rig.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Adding timing gives around 0. 5 mpg; TST and Smarty are two of the approaches to adding timing. Several years ago there was a discussion in the magazine on timing with input from Mark Chapple (TST) and others.

 

[AH64ID]

A Smarty Jr is going to be your best bet. Set it to SW1 with Timing at 2 and Torque at 4 and drive it.

Depending on how you use your truck the mileage increase may be bigger or smaller. When towing the increase is better, but flat cruising below 1900 rpms won't see a huge gain, but cruising above 2000 will perk up the truck and mileage.

I ran a Jr on SW1 over 4 years, it really does make the truck drive a lot better.

What trans do you have?

Also, tuners like the Edge and Quadzilla (which are not programmers, but add on modules) will effect the overhead more than others so beware of what the lie-o-meter or other owners are telling you. The Jr should maintain the same error that stock has.

 

[Jack in Alaska]

I agree with all of the above info.
My Smarty Jr. has been set on SW2 for several years whether towing or empty. I tracked my mileage when 1st installing ths Smarty and I saw maybe 1 mpg. It does make the truck a 10k lb. sports car though. I love how it responds. On one occasion I tried SW3 while towing my 5th,whl, coming up the hillls out of Hoover Dam area going south. The rpm's were rising and my speed was not. Clutch slipping.
I returned the Sm. Jr to SW2 and the problem disappeared. I have a new clutch now but have not "tested it" and probably never will. I am more than happy with the truck performance when towing and not towing.

 

[Regcabguy]

If you haven't tried the latest tunes from Mads, I highly recommend them. Power is smoother and cleaner yet.

 

[Shadrach]

Bill welcome to the TDR. Is this your first diesel? I agree with JJ and Fiver. Get used to the truck first. If you are going to add gauges ( pyro, boost and trans temp if auto ) then do so now again to "learn " where you are at and what you really need. It will take a very long time to regain the cost of a Smarty by fuel mileage alone, although it would be my choice as well, but not just yet. David.

 

[jelag]

I have an Edge Mileage Max that I use when I tow... . it was advertised to give a 2-3 MPG increase... I have fuel records that go back several years, every drop that went into my truck... . and I thought that if I got an increase it would be worth the cost...

What it does is help me go over hills with my 15K lb trailer... and it does that well... . there was no fuel economy increase... .

But I agree with the guys above... . get used to your truck first... and than make up your mind... .

 

[TileMan]

I have a 600 series motor, 2004. 5, 6 Sp Manual, 4. 10 Rear, dually... . I recently bought it and drove it for several weeks... not loaded... and also pulling my 2,500 lbs work trailer... It was recommended that I dump a program into it for mileage. My friend and mech. recommended the Hypertech E-Com programmer. Followed simple instructions and dumped in new program. No joke at all... I easily get 3 MPG better on Hiway and at least 3 more in town... city. The motor does run smoother. It is not a fluke and I am not driving any differently. (how can you when you use the cruise control!) Being honest ... I also installed a aFe air box, cleaner and air Pipe (cleaner to turbo) at the same time. I think that both will pay for themselves shortly.
Cost was about $625 total
Yes my fellow Kalifornian's... both come with a Ca. CARB sticker.

 

[Fiver]

TileMan, do you calculate your mileage or are you reading the display?

 

[6speed]

My bet is the Lie-o-meter. I do know with playing with mine it will make difference but not 3 or more better. All of calcalutions usually represent a 1 to 1 1/2 at best. But then again I don't drive it much unless I am towing. Then with 26K it doesn't really matter when your only getting 9. 5-10. 5.

 

[TileMan]

TileMan, do you calculate your mileage or are you reading the display?

It is with shame and deep regret to my fellow Dodge owners... that I have to admit that I was sucked in..... to believing what I will now also call/title my trucks "Lie-O-Meter. " It was too good to be true as I found out when I finally filled up and quickly ran the numbers for myself. My mileage was about 4 under what the Lie-O-Meter was stating. (What a worthless product! I can't stand stuff that doesn't work as it is supposed to and that I can't fix/repair.
Anyhow, I just got back from freeway driving without a load to the coast. (About 300 miles). I'll check it out and see what I got.
Thanks for straightening me out before years past... . With me bragging to friends about "the mileage I was getting!"

So... Here is my question: I currently have a 4:10 rear end... Is it worth the money to put in a 3:73? To achieve better mileage?
Or, is there a forum that already deals with this question?
Thank you!

 

[cerberusiam]

So... Here is my question: I currently have a 4:10 rear end... Is it worth the money to put in a 3:73? To achieve better mileage?

Probably not going to 3. 73's. However, a 3. 42 gear set is available that would likely help in your specific conditions. The lower gears reduce the efficacy on heavier loads but help on lighter ones. Keeping your trailer weights under 10k and I think the 3. 42's with a manual would work pretty well.

 

[TileMan]

Probably not going to 3. 73's. However, a 3. 42 gear set is available that would likely help in your specific conditions. The lower gears reduce the efficacy on heavier loads but help on lighter ones. Keeping your trailer weights under 10k and I think the 3. 42's with a manual would work pretty well.

Thanks Cerberusiam... I think part of the question i had above was... . At what point does the RPM get too low... that it would become detrimental to the engine, or cause the mileage to suffer because the motor is "trying too hard" ? I do not tow even close to 10k in weight... and usually have a 3k trailer behind me... going 60 (Kalifornia)

thanks!

 

[cerberusiam]

I think at 60 mph with a stock tire and 3. 42's you should be good. As long as you can keep the rpm's in the 1900-2000 range at cruising speed that is the sweet spot for power and efficiency. There are rpm calculators floating around that allow yout to plug in tire size, ratios, and rpms to get your speed. With slower in-town driving it should help some as you won't be shifting as much.

Not sure what the programmer you have does to stock fueling curves, timing, etc, that would help. You would have to dyno the setup to see where your power band is to know what to adjust or change. Typically tuning these engines to run 1900-2200 rpms with peak TQ as low in that range as possbile yields the best results. Keeping the rpms in that range accelrating or constant driving with a 6 speed becomes realtively easy with the better ratio splits on the 3. 42's.

 

[TileMan]

I think at 60 mph with a stock tire and 3. 42's you should be good. As long as you can keep the rpm's in the 1900-2000 range at cruising speed that is the sweet spot for power

Well... . that comment you made about rpm's is key. You probably know more than I do about where these engines like to be. Currently. With a 6-speed manual, and 4:10 rear end, I am turning about 1800? At 60 mph. It would be easy to do the math... which I will shortly, to see where my rpm's would be if I changed ratios. I'll do some math (and post the math) to shown you-all what I am coming up with

But the key to what we are talking about comes down to 2 questions:... .
A) at what rpm does this engine get its best mileage when empty?
B) at what rpm does this engine get its best mileage when towing X lbs?

Then, the other factors are ... . what has a person done to their particular truck... ?
Air filter change...
Chip or program put in...
Other factors...

Thank all of you for your information... . I am eager to learn more about This truck I just got

TileMan

 

[cerberusiam]

Hmmmm, I would have though your rpms would be a bit higher at 60 mph with 4. 10's and a . 74 OD based on stock tire size but I don't have a manual so not sure.

The 2 questions are so subjective it is hard to apply a single answer to all trucks. Driving style, conditions, etc, make so large a difference it is hard to compare. The best BSFC on a the CR engines is advertised to be around 1950 rpms. That seems to hold true on mine empty or towing as that is the best balance for power and mpg, 1900-2000 rpms. That equates to 65-68 mph for my truck.

Will it get better mpg at 1400 rpms in OD empty? sure, it will look good empty but you aren't going to tow at those rpms. The paratic drag of the load will make a huge difference as will speed in figuring out best speed\rpm for weight, it is not a set variable.

For basic mpg improvements, a Smarty tuner with a little extra power dialed in plus some timing seems to be the best compromise. Remove some of the TQ management and keep your rpms under 2400 all the time and some guys towing claim they can get up to 40% mpg than stock. Hard telling how much is actual results and perception so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[TileMan]

I have read several times about changing the timing. do you know where I am supposed to be with that? Or an article about it?



Also, You may be "more smarter" than I, but why isn't the BSFC at the max torque RPM?... which I think for the 600 Series motor is 1650...



Thanks



TileMan