Diesel Progress MUST READ

[Yo Hoot]

February Diesel Progress has an excellent article on the Dodge/Cummins 2007 through 2010 diesel emissions strategy for the light duty versions coming out shortly.



Some of the highlights...



Dodge did not want to redesign any sheet metal. It had to be a "slip in" solution.



Cummins did the legwork.



Cummins decided to go heavily with exhaust aftertreatment. They came up with two aftertreatment catalysts in series and a Diesel Particulate Filter.





Order of assy. .



DOC (Diesel Oxidation Catalyst)

NAC (NOx Absorber Catalyst)

DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter)



No ash cleaning required

Entire system is rated for the life of the vehicle

NAC regenerates itself every few minutes

DPF regenerates with the use of mass air flow sensing typically every four hours.



All regeneration is accomplished by overheating the egts through engine fueling and air. They had to play with that so as not to have an increase in power during regenerations.





New Bosch HPCR system with 26,000psi and more event capability.



"Variable geometry turbo from Cummins Turbo Technologies... the truck can literally BURN RUBBER from a standing stop. Because of the robustness of the sliding vane design, it also can be used to provide engine braking. "



Cummins...

"It's interesting that when we shipped the first 4400 engines to Chrysler in 1988, it was 160hp and 450 tq... ... and that's what the new engine is at IDLE now. "



Also the new emission meets 2010 standards TODAY and will no effect mpg from 2006... . so they are saying.

 

[jcarey]

Very interesting.



"Life of the vehicle": That should give Ford and GM some "gas" :-laf

 

[rbattelle]

Cummins...

"It's interesting that when we shipped the first 4400 engines to Chrysler in 1988, it was 160hp and 450 tq... ... and that's what the new engine is at IDLE now. "

Hello, DC? If you're reading this, DUMP YOUR AD AGENCY NOW and get one that will build you a commercial based around this quote! Show a 1st gen truck and a 2007 truck right next to each other. Someone says "the 1989 truck puts out 160hp and 450 lb*ft at 1400 RPM. The 2007 does too... at idle. "



As for the rest of the article, my first thought was, "my goodness, what will the cost of a replacement NAC be? "



You're talking about "The first commercially produced NOx adsorber system to be used on a production vehicle in any market segment in North America". That implies to me scarce parts availability, and $$$$ if something goes wrong.



Ryan

 

[Wolfy]

February Diesel Progress has an excellent article on the Dodge/Cummins 2007 through 2010 diesel emissions strategy for the light duty versions coming out shortly. ...

Thanks Yo Hoot!



Is there on-line access to this article, or is it hard-copy only?

 

[Wolfy]

"Variable geometry turbo from Cummins Turbo Technologies... the truck can literally BURN RUBBER from a standing stop.

Somebody educate me.



Isn't "a standing stop" where most rubber-burning begins? (IMO a rig that can break the wheels loose when already rolling is the more impressive. )



And is it unusual for a presumably empty (no load is mentioned) light-in-the-rear pick-up to be able to break loose from a stop?



Another deduction : If a given 3500, let's say, with SRW is "powerful" enough to burn from a stop, ... then would a similar-but-DRW rig not be launched-and-gone (with twice the driving traction), while the SRW is slippin'-and-burnin'? (Provided nothing snaps)



Admittedly I haven't bought a PU in many years, and am only now contemplating a diesel,... but somehow I'm missing why this statement is thought to be impressive. (?)



Is this somehow related to turbo wind-up or something?

 

[nickleinonen]

Thanks Yo Hoot!



Is there on-line access to this article, or is it hard-copy only?

http://www.dieselpub.com/dp/index.asp



from the above link, you can subscribe for FREE to either the print hard copy or the electronic version [or both]



i haven't received my newest diesel progress mag yet

 

[JasonCzerak]

Somebody educate me.



Isn't "a standing stop" where most rubber-burning begins? (IMO a rig that can break the wheels loose when already rolling is the more impressive. )

True, spinning the tires from a roll is better. But most production cars and trucks can't even "burn from a stop". I would suspect these are automatic vehicles they are talking about. Manuals, even a geo can slip the tires.

 

[DDahl]

I wonder?! I read the Diesel progress article and remembered that Dodge said the 6. 7 pickup's emission system would not need service for 125,000 miles. This might imply based on the the emission equipment lasting the life of the vehicle that Dodge now rates the life of the Dodge pickup as 125,000 miles. 125,000 miles is the compliance required of LIGHT heavy duty emissions (e. g. Ford and GM). Since the emission system of the CC has been stated as 175,000 miles (MEDIUM heavy duty emissions), perhaps DC is now planning to sell throw-away pickups?

 

[Yo Hoot]

The crankcase ventilation filter will need service at 60,000.



This system was announced at a car show late in Jan. It was supposed to be somewhat of a surprise so anything said previously you can I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER can.

 

[Wolfy]

http://www.dieselpub.com/dp/index.asp



from the above link, you can subscribe for FREE to either the print hard copy or the electronic version [or both]

Thanks,... but seems it matters who you are:



"Complimentary subscriptions to Diesel Progress North American Edition and Diesel Progress International Edition are available only to qualified candidates involved in the engine, engine-powered equipment and component markets. The publisher reserves the right to reject incomplete or non-qualified requests. "



I'd only be "involved" as a customer.

 

[Pawpaw]

Thanks,... but seems it matters who you are:



"Complimentary subscriptions to Diesel Progress North American Edition and Diesel Progress International Edition are available only to qualified candidates involved in the engine, engine-powered equipment and component markets. The publisher reserves the right to reject incomplete or non-qualified requests. "



I'd only be "involved" as a customer.

Apparently it doesn't matter too much.



I put "NONE" for title and company. For what my company does, I selected "Other" and put in "Telecommunications".



I've already recieved my confirmation email.



Bob

 

[cojhl2]

Another deduction : If a given 3500, let's say, with SRW is "powerful" enough to burn from a stop, ... then would a similar-but-DRW rig not be launched-and-gone (with twice the driving traction), while the SRW is slippin'-and-burnin'? (Provided nothing snaps)



Looks intuitive but not correct. The driving force is not related to area, but pressure*area. Twice the area on the ground for the same weight is 1/2 the pressure and twice the area, hence equal driving force.

 

[EMD-Run8]

I seriously doubt the the 6. 7's are "throw away" trucks. The engine is actually rated for a longer service life than the current trucks. Only the emissions has the lower rating. Have confidence in Cummins-----they are the industry leader.

 

[RustyJC]

Looks intuitive but not correct. The driving force is not related to area, but pressure*area. Twice the area on the ground for the same weight is 1/2 the pressure and twice the area, hence equal driving force.

Which is why top fuel, pro stocks and funny cars don't run wide slicks since they don't buy them any advantage.



OK, sarcasm aside, traction doesn't conform to classical Newtonian physics where the force is a function of coefficient of friction between static or sliding bodies. Theoretically, this coefficient of friction can never be greater than 1, which can only generate 1g maximum acceleration (or deceleration).



In actuality, the interface between a tire and pavement is more related to a gear arrangement. The rubber of the tire conforms to the irregularities of the pavement, like meshing gear teeth. The more rubber meeting the road, the more gear teeth are engaged. The force that can be transmitted through this interface depends on the ability of the tire rubber "teeth" to resist deformation or shearing. Since more teeth mean less load is applied to each tooth for a given total force, a larger tire (or more contact area) can generate higher accelerative forces than a smaller one. That's why drag racers can accelerate at much higher accelerations than 1g.



If you don't think this is true, try to run a 1/4 mile drag race with bicycle tires on the rear of that top fueler - in Newtonian terms, it should give the same (or better - less aerodynamic drag) result as those huge drag slicks.



Rusty

 

[cojhl2]

Wow, you got me RustyJC. .



Thank you for the extra knowledge. I thought I was doing a favor to splain the issue.



I always thought the extra wide tires on a dragster was to keep the tire intact during the spin. A narrow tire would burn off before ya get started.



But,, I always thought the "gear teeth" analogy was what friction is anyway.



John



Edit: On further thinking,, We are talking dynamic friction here not static. I should have realized the rules change considerable anyway . . Again thank you for the real facts.

 

[Wolfy]

Wow, you got me RustyJC. .



Thank you for the extra knowledge. I thought I was doing a favor to splain the issue.

Thanks, guys, for both posts.



Going with the gear-teeth idea, and back to my original supposition, then the dually DOES have a traction advantage?



And carrying the idea to another situation,... the dually has better grip for pulling the heavy boat out at the launch ramp(steep/wet/mossy/sandy/whatever)? Especially the 4(6)WD dually?

 

[RustyJC]

Well, the dually, having more tires on the ground, tends to have more flotation, especially on the rear wheels. On that boat ramp, that can hinder traction if the tire can't cut through the water down to the pavement to get the gear analogy working. So, there are advantages and disadvantages.



Rusty

 

[JasonCzerak]

Well, the dually, having more tires on the ground, tends to have more flotation, especially on the rear wheels. On that boat ramp, that can hinder traction if the tire can't cut through the water down to the pavement to get the gear analogy working. So, there are advantages and disadvantages.



Rusty

yeah, but a dually burn out just looks freaking cool Makes them gears in the heads of them ricer kids go "what the F?"

 

[Wolfy]

=Rusty

"Well, the dually, having more tires on the ground, tends to have more flotation, especially on the rear wheels. On that boat ramp, that can hinder traction if the tire can't cut through the water down to the pavement to get the gear analogy working. So, there are advantages and disadvantages. "



Gentle-slope ramp -- no problem.



Steep ramp -- add rearward C-G shift from uphill truck, weight of camper and trailer tongue on rear wheels, and fact that wheels are not spinning, ... double granny 4(6)-low should do'er, no?



No "cutting through" necessary. Hydroplaning is an "at-speed" phenomena,... water will readily squish out from under slow-turning wheels.



Seaweed/slime maybe another thing.



Am I thinking right here?



=Jason

"yeah, but a dually burn out just looks freaking cool Makes them gears in the heads of them ricer kids go "what the F?"



Older dude here. What is a "ricer kid"?

 

[JNailor]

Older dude here too. They're the Honda jockeys with the five inch mufflers on the inch and a half exhaust pipes. :-laf