Diesel Pusher Motorhome for Full-Time

[Terry Jay]

I like Big Nasty's post above.

There are motorhomes that are built like travel trailers with an engine, and there are motorhomes with a lot of structural integrity. For a quality 20 year old motorhome with something in the range of 100,000 miles the going price is likely in the $60,000 to $100,000 range, sometimes more. http://www.prevost-stuff.com/1994PrevostMarathonXL_KenMary714.html has a Prevost Bus for under $90,000. Here http://www.buybyebluebird.com/show.php?id=247&page=2&p=10&srt=added DESC is a BlueBird Wanderlodge, a real bus, as a motorhome for under $40,000. Those are the only brands I am aware of built on a real bus frame and upper shell structure. These type vehicles typically had an original price between $500,000 and $2,000,000 when new. If taken care of and maintenance performed on schedule they should last another 20 or 30 years or more. There is a set of specialty shops that can update the entire interior and a good part of the systems such as heating, cooling, and electronics. I have to agree with BIG about the Spartan frame, and the Freightliner. frame. There are other frame builders as well.

There are a number of other motorhome builders who produced solid and well built Newmar, Newell, Beaver and others come to mind.

If you are sold on the Super C style, go here http://www.racingjunk.com/category/1253/Toterhomes-RVs-Motorhomes.html and browse. They call them Toterhomes. One issue may be that more of these will be gear jammers, but automatics are becoming more common.

Whatever you decide on, you may find an owner support and discussion forum handy and useful for sorting out the gremlins and getting familiar with them before you buy. Most owner forums are very helpfull.

I am a bit toward the real bus, as the whole body has to pass the federal standards for passenger safety, not just the cab. Having said that, here is a story about a head on between a motorhome and a pickup, an F-350 as I recall. Speed limit on this section of road is 55mph. http://peninsulaclarion.com/news/2015-08-05/kenai-spur-highway-reopened-following-fatal-wreck

One of the things to check is the curb weight compared to the GVW. Some models have a very limited carrying capacity, others are quite generous.

Good luck in your search.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

BIG & Penny,

Thank you for your insights. You listed several of the points my wife has made. I have never driven a motorhome.

A couple of follow-up questions: Are you concerned with the lightly constructed front end (issue Jim W. Points out above)? What year is your Newmar Dutch Star? Thanks.


P.S. An unrelated item. I thought of you when my son and I were on our bicycle ride from Pittsburgh to D.C. We were at the Great Falls of the Potomac visitor center on the C&O Canal Towpath. They keep a short section of the canal cut back and watered, a lock working, and a replica of a canal boat. People can ride on the boat. They take the boat through the lock. My son and I worked the gates as we happened along at the right time. The way this works is that two mules walk along the path; a line goes from the canal boat to the harness on the mules. When the come to a lock they release the line and the mules walk up the short incline equal to the lock height. The gates of the lock are closed, the canal boat rises with the water flow, the gate is opened on the other end of the lock, the line from the mules is attached to the boat again, and the mules pull the boat down the canal. Freight shipment at four miles per hour. Anyhow, two beautiful mules were used. I thought you would like how the mules worked that.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Terry Jay,

Thanks for the insights and links.

 

[mwilson]

A couple of quick points....

I'm in the business, immersed in this crap day in and day out. I'll tell you what I think you need but whether you heed my advice or not is totally up to you...it's your money....I see some pretty crazy stuff...

Buying anything with a 1994 vintage 8V 92 showing 135,000 would be one step to the left from total insanity. If no cooling system service has been performed the liner's and liner seals are ticking time bombs just waiting to drop 12 gallons of antifreeze into the oil pan quicker than you can say "Oh ****" which you will say when the low oil pressure alarm goes off, gauge goes to zero and the motor starts shaking and suddenly stops.
Then you get to deal with MTU because they hold the rights to the 2 stroke engines now. The truck dealers pay the same price that you would so the repair shop is going to charge a fairly good mark up...if you can find a shop that will even lay a wrench on one nowadays.

Freightliner builds to customer specs. If the frame is not stiff enough it was not ordered for the application. All it takes is more crossmembers and thicker frame rails.
Filters not accessible? Again, specs. Coach builder either failed to spec it right or the coach company bought a bunch of pre built chassis to get a deal and went with the "Close Enough" theory...

I've seen that done by Fire Truck Companies as well.

For God's sake Russell, don't consider ANY two stroke Detroit engines.....

 

[BIGNASTY]

Ours is a Newmar Dutch Star 3810 Spartan Frame (was 370 HP) changed in Little Rock AR to 400 HP.

No I quit worrying about all the possible ways of getting wasted in Cars, Trucks, Tractors, Go Karts, Boats, Horse or even a forecart with a runaway team of mules. When its your turn its your turn. Case in point if you care to indulge, The fuel pipeline was down going to Las Vegas NV we were hauling fuel from So Calif. To Vegas. I stopped in Baker CA for coffee at the bottom of Baker Grade its a 6% 8 mile grade. Mind you we were loaded going UP HILL when one of the trucks in our group hit the back end of a stopped trucks trailer. Our trucks were pretty decent trucks for company trucks so maybe he hit the truck doing 30MPH and that would be more than what it really would have been. Anyway the trailer rear-end jumped up on the top of the frame rails of an 80 Something Pete Conventional B model cat air to air. At that speed the impact shoved the radiator, Intercooler, Motor and at that time Aluminum hood right off the frame and into the front of the fuel trailer with the driver someplace in the mess.


So to think that ANYTHING is going to protect you because its in front of you like a conventional truck or EVEN THE MIGHTY PLASTIC FRONTEND of a Dodge or Ram what ever it is they are called this week. I think that a person is SADLY Mistaken. The best thing is to pay attention to what the hell we're supposed to be doing in the first place when sitting in the Pilot Seat. Sure there are unforeseen things that can happen and you have no control of but driving in the So Calif LA basin for as long as I did without any AT FAULT accidents (you'll have to read between the lines with the AT FAULT) a person paying attention to what's going on around him can at least get into an accident and protect yourself using your wits, if its the other persons fault for the accident I REALLY DON'T CARE WHAT HAPPENS TO THEM ANYWAY ITS A DOG EAT DOG WORLD.

Now for the other part of your Post Penny & I are making plans to return to the New England area to finish our trip. We have several people who use Mule power on another website that I visit that live in Vermont that I would like to spend time with. Also have to show Penny the Maine Coast and get some of those big Cockroaches that roam the seas of the area. It is really amazing how many people we seen on our trip that still use Horses or Mules for power, its one reason that we became friends with some Amish Folks near Shipshewana IN. I was kind of proud of myself when we were in Williamsburg VA when a guy with a Mule drawn Freight trailer was having a problem with a new rope that was slick and kept coming untied. I used one of my lesser known knots to secure the rope. Later he came back to me and had me show him just how I tied that knot.

BIG

 

[RUSSELL5000]

M Wilson,

I asked, so please shoot the opinions out there. I will be Googling Detroit 8V 92 next. As I said, I gots me lots and lots of 'larnin to do.

This is a great forum. When I got my truck and travel trailer the folks here on the forum were fantastic. Thanks to them I feel like I have a safe, effective tow situation.



BIG, you are of course correct - you can't control the world, can't make everything perfectly safe. On the other hand, I don't play in the middle of the freeway. I'm seeking a common sense balance between the two.



I really like the look of the vintage buses, but obviously need to know more. Don't want future guaranteed problems. I looked at the website Terry Jay referenced on the Class C on an HD chassis - some looked really good.

 

[mwilson]

Now let me clarify a bit, hot and tired when I did the post last night.

Now I can work on 53, 71 and 92 series engines, still have the tools in my roll-away. But if you can't do that yourself repairs might turn into a costly and frequent events.

The two stroke Detroits were pretty much out of the truck market by the late '80s. Roger Penske pushed the 60 series out and it was ready. Nothing like the previous Detroit offerings.
So those early '90s coaches in all likelihood have the DDEC 1 electronic controls. The fuel rack was eliminated and the injectors themselves were changed to electronic actuation. Are called Electronic Unit Injectors or EUI's. Not all that common and the software needed if there are ECM or other electronic issues will only be in MTU dealers hands for the most part.

Also coaches tend to have weird wheel studs, brake drums, suspensions, etc. Quite normal stuff for multi-bus fleets but uncommon for your basic truck dealership or repair facility. The bus companies have their own help network for this reason..if a New Jersey based tour bus craps out in Missouri then a local bus fleet is contacted to assist in parts location and repair, loaning a coach to keep the tour going, etc.

It is reciprocal and nationwide as far as I know. You however are not going to have that loving nurturing experience if you break down.

Consider break downs and TOWING. Big wrecker with a long underlift is required.

Consider the no slide thing, to me it would be like living in a Hamster Habitat after the new wore off.....wife and I get along very well but that would strain the relationship when going full time.

Keep asking questions and learning. I have already been beating the full time thing to death for my own purposes and I keep coming back to a fifth wheel.

Mike.

 

[mwilson]

Gotta' few thing to do but I want to add this while it's fresh...

Cat power....the On Road market is dying out, market dwindling. Cat used to have the truck dealers on the TEPS program which kept consumer parts pricing down. I could sell CAT truck parts cheaper than the CAT dealers could and that was fine with all involved. Now CAT is diluting those agreements in search of more business for their own shops....Part pricing will continue to rise and availability of truck specific items will get tighter.

Cummins power....Parts and availability will remain strong. Pricing is fair for "B" and "C" series, but once you step up into the ISL and ISX series hang on. ISX turbos, cylinder heads are insanely priced. I've seen ISX turbos cost $4500.00 exchange. I hate to even quote the stuff.

Detroit Diesel....early 60 series non EGR power is the way to go. Reasonable parts pricing and good availability. Over a million of them were built and were for the most part a very good engine.....many still on the road. Demand drives lower parts pricing.

 

[BIGNASTY]

I don't think that we could Full Time in ANYTHING!!
We had a great time traveling around like we did but we were moving around and going places to see new things and meet people who we met online. Eventually that's going to stop either for lack of people or the prohibitive cost, we spent 2 months out and spent a ton of money. The cost of the RV parks, camping is always going to be a BILL, fuel right now isn't bad (I cant say I said that!! ) food is about the same we found all over but the amount of storage is not, it seemed to us that we were forever going to the store or looking for a farmers market.

For me, I need a place to call MINE get out and work in the yard, shop, have my animals

Penny!! Give her a credit card and a Mall she's happy as a Pig in XXXX


It takes a special type of person to do this full time RVing thing.

Like Mike mentioned to have an RV without slides???? that would be pretty hard to deal with.

 

[Jim W]

I agree with Big on the full-timing business. We have three grown adult children with grandkids and the DW would not leave them for a full-timing life style, neither would I. We do travel a lot trying to go at least a week at a time in the spring and summer. We will then travel for a month in mid-fall and or mid-winter. We do take the grandkids camping with us in the summer, but according to one of the mothers of our grandkids we have turn them into camping snobs. They point out to their parents at county fair RV shows all of the low end units and what is wrong with them per their opinion.

This is something to consider if you have children (which you do) and do you want to be around as the grandkids grow up. We do; I and my DW go to all of the grandkids events such as musicals, plays and sporting events. We are usually at an event between two and three times a week in the early spring and school year.

I too do not want to give up all of my woodworking tools and hand tools that I have, plus the wife would not want to give up her sewing room. So for us the full time life style would not work.

Just my opinion.

 

[Killgore]

Russell, I see your wheels turning as you reconsider your numerous decisions. Whatever you do, have an exit plan before entering into
this new adventure.

- Ed

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Well, looks like we go some good discussion going here.

The DW and I discuss the full-time issue - always hard to say what the future holds, but we agree that we would like to try for a while anyhow. One of the things that occurs to us is that we can see grandkids, etc., if the children become all dispersed around the country. That is still in the future and so hard to say. But, this is the plan now.

At any rate, It seems to me that this would be a good time to be a little more analytic. I am going to start a worksheet where I can list the pro/con of the different approaches to full-timing. MWilson said he has already been thinking on it. I'll lay it all out on paper so I can see it and see whether a best answer pops out.

There certainly seems a lot to consider and think on.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Ed,

Yes, it occurs to me that I need to start with a fresh piece of paper and consider all of the aspects and think through.

Good thing is that I got plenty of time to work through carefully.

 

[Wayne M.]

This is exciting. Good luck!

 

[Killgore]

Forgive me, I can't help but tell a quick story:

The first of the year we were camping on the Gulf Coast and parked next to an older couple from Illinois. He was 87 and she was also up in
years and not able to get around very well. They were very likeable folks and we quickly became friends. After several days he told me that
they would be returning to their home in IL the next day. At the appointed hour he climbed behind the wheel of his older MH and hit the starter.
Nothing. Well, you know the rest; the call to Good Sam to send out the local doofus who claimed to be a diesel mechanic; $750 for the service
call and some fuel filters, and still nothing. We had to head home and DW and I felt terrible leaving them in the campground. I recommended he call Mid-South Cummins who quickly hauled his MH to their facility in Mobile where a real mechanic diagnosed the problem as a bad ECM and
a bad alternator. I called him every day to check on his status until he arrived back home... and sold his MH.

The moral of the story: If you get in this business you better have deep pockets and a good sense of humor.


- Ed

 

[Wayne M.]

Punt!

im headed east on the PENNA turnpike, and I spotted going west, the exact jayco/ Freightliner as mentioned in this thread, brown with the swirl towing a 20' or so matching enclosed. Looked fabulous!

 

[TJJEEPER]

Yet another 2 cents to this thread.

Wife and I considered a diesel pusher too. Spent a lot of time looking at ALL kinds of motorhomes. The vast majority of the "affordable" diesel pushers DID NOT HAVE a high enough towing capacity. Typically less than 5000 lbs. Including the super "C" rigs.
Just one more thing to research in your quest.

 

[Shadrach]

Ok so here's my blurb: I enjoy my truck and TT, but have considered an MH for "down the road" so to speak, if you'll pardon the pun Most are too fancy for me, altho I do like quality, and surprisingly a lot of them have very little counter space in the "kitchen" area, which my wife hates. I personally like the older aluminum ones, like Barths and Bluebird Wanderlodges. Prevost have always had Detroit Diesel engine until recently when Volve bought them and they now have... you guessed it... Volvo engines. Cat as it has been noted isn't big into on highway vehicles now a days. I don't believe Wanderlodges came with Cummins' either. Airstream made a Land Yacht as well.

I do like the the Super C units, especially the ones built on a Ram 5500 chassis. The nice thing about these is you can get it in 4X4, or with 4 doors for travelling with others and if you wish a stick shift. It also feels more like what most of us are used to - a truck. I don't like van front ends ( Class C) as there is no room for my big feet.

I wonder what a Class A would look like with one of those big aluminum bumpers on the front. It would give some protection against animals. You can get them on a Cab over semi and when polished up look real nice. Not for snobby MH people tho . You sure do get a clear view with the big windshield of a Class A.

I have seen some lower end models of MH with the diesel up front where the V10 would be. In the bigger units the generator is up front. "Most" RVs have ONAN generators in them, even units powered by Cats. Onan is owned by Cummins.

The next step up is a "smaller" diesel, like the 5.9 or 6.7 in the back. These usually have a rear mounted rad and when you open up the door to the engine compartment all you see is rad. As Mike said lots of fun to work on. The bigger units have bigger engine and usually have a side mounted rad. The fan is then driven by a hydraulic pump which is belt driven off the crankshaft. On some models the access hatch to the top of the engine is very small and will cost you extra when someone is working on it. It is also a pain for the mechanic because he has to go into your unit and not leave an dirt or grease.

I have seen MHs with the engine mounted madcap and then they can have a "garage" in the rear. Great for a small car or a motorbike.

There are usually 2 fuel filters on a MH, one on the engine and one on the frame. If I look up the Cummins Engine Serial Number ( ESN) it will not tell me the frame mounted fuel filter nor will it tell me the air filter, but good sized branch of a Cummins Distributor should have all the filters in stock, altho you will need to give them the numbers off the frame mounted fuel filter and the air filter.


And now for a lesson in Cummins engine designations:

Anything with IS in the name, like ISB, is an electronic engine - it stands for Interact System. ( a QS? is the industrial version - the Q starting of Quantum) The B became ISB in 98.5. As you already know the B includes both the 5.9 and the 6.7 ( it also includes the 4 cyl 3.9 & 4.5 litre, but you won't find them in an MH).

Next is the C series, an 8.3 litre version similar to the B but this engine has replaceable liners ( aka sleeves - the part the piston goes up and down in) The B series is the only one with out liners. The newer ones are ISCs.

Then comes the ISL, an 8.9 litre engine. This is the largest "Midrange" engine Cummins makes. You can get it with a real "JAKE" brake. Warning in some MH models that came with the new at the time ISL engines there was no room to remove the valve cover to set the valves as the addition of the Jake added a couple of inches to the height of the engine and the coach builders hadn't modified the engine bay yet. You don't want to pay for a valve set or head removal in one of these

Next would be the L10, an older mechanical but good engine.

The M11 and ISM are 11 litre engines.

The ISX is Cummins biggest on highway engine and is 15 litre in displacement. In a 45' Coach you can get up to 650HP. These babies don't hold up traffic.

I have skipped a few models, the 855 cid/N14 series and the new ISX 12 litre. I can see the new ISV 5.0 litre ( the one used in the Nissan Titan) being used in a class C as it would replace a V10 real easily.

In general you can get more HP in an RV than you can in a working truck, just like how we have more ponies in our 2500 & 3500 pickups than you get in a Chassis Cab version. This is because Rams and RVs are not expected to last a million miles.

One suggestion for Russell5000 is to rent a Class A for a week or two and see how you like it. It would be a lot cheaper than having to resell one.

OK I'm done... for now.

David

 

[Wayne M.]

That was a good Shadrach.
I have a soft spot for the L10/M11 myself. Had a few years with those in our fleet and they are great powerhouses. Have a certain sound too.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Thanks for recent posts. Really appreciate the explanation of the Cummins engines. I had picked up on one or two, but appreciate the overview.