Diesel Vs Gas

[RGardner]

I have a buddy that has retired and is going to get a new truck to pull his 5th wheel camper. He thinks that with the extra cost of the diesel engine and the fact that diesel is (at least right now) higher than gas, that a diesel will never pay for itself. In the past I have thought that a diesel would pay out in about 100,000 mi but I am not sure what the new gassers are getting mpg wise. I also think that pulling thru the mountains of Colorado he will be happier with a diesel. Has anyone done any recent calculations on the payout for a diesel or at least has mpg info on the new gassers. TIA

 

[drewRoberts]

it might not be in the fuel area, but Diesels dont have spark plugs. . . and the good ones dont have glow plugs either



but with just the overall more stout driveline is another.

 

[GFritsch]

There is more to consider then MPG. There is tow ability and reliability. The Cummins under hard load will still last for 200-300k reliably. The gasser will probably start getting tired at 100k.



I would bet that the Diesel would probably get close to double the fuel economy. My truck with a heavy slide in camper (about 4,000lbs loaded) pulling a ski boat (about 4,000 full of gear) still gets 14-15 mpg. Friends with similar gas set-ups see 7-8mpg and struggle on the grades.



Guess who gets to the top of the hill and the lake first? :-laf

 

[RustyJC]

One factor often ignored is that the initial premium for the diesel is largely (if not totally) recouped upon resale. Here in the Houston area, it's almost impossible to sell a gas-powered 3/4 or 1-ton truck. Ask me - I had a 1996 3500 dually with V-10/47RE before my present truck.



Insofar as mileage is concerned, pulling our previous 13,500 lb GVWR Jayco Designer XL 3610RLTS 5th wheel over the same route, the V-10 got 6. 5 MPG whereas the Cummins HO got 10. 5-11 MPG. On the 6% grades, however, the V-10 was in 2nd gear at 3500 RPM (55 MPH) while the Cummins was still in 6th gear at 65-70 MPH. To me, that's why I bought the diesel - the much more favorable HP and torque curves for a towing application.



This will be even more apparent to your friend as the naturally-aspirated gasser will lose BHP as elevation increases to a much greater extent than a modern turbocharged diesel.



To me, the diesel is worth the $$$ for my heavy towing application regardless of the financial considerations involved.



Rusty

 

[Jay]

Diesel, Not Gas

Your buddy WILL be happier towing with a diesel, particularly if his 5'vr happens to be on the larger side. I'm a member of the local Sunnybrook owners club, in the last 4 years, we've had 8-10 members migrate from gas to diesel rigs (mostly Dmaxes) and none of them want their gassers back!

 

[FloridaEd]

I've towed with multiple gassers and multiple diesels. If he's going to be towing a big (or heavy - 8k+) trailer, he will not, IMHO, be happy with the gasser. I towed a pop-up and a small Scottie trailer with a 1/2 ton AND a 3/4 ton gasser (both Fords... sorry) and they were okay.



I then graduated to a 5700# Avion TT and it was not happy with the gassers. The diesel pulled it fine. Now, I tow a 10,500# 5'ver with my current 7. 3 Ford and it does a good job..... just hairy going down hill with an auto transmission.



When I towed the Avion (5700#) with a 3/4 ton Ford gasser, I got 8-9 MPG and I never tow over 65 on the Interstates, slower on other roads. My diesel gets 13 MPG towing 10,500# over same road... . and my 5'ver has a huge head that catches the air and hurts the MPG. I'm convinced I could get 16 MPG towing my old trailer... . about 60-70% better fuel mileage.



I often pass gassers on long grades out West with my rig. They're revving about 5k RPM and struggling on the hills. I'm out of overdrive, but cruising up the grades in 3rd gear at 55-60.



And I can keep my truck for as long as I want... . I always get tired of the diesels before they get tired. After 40 years+ towing all sorts of stuff, I believe the diesel, with a $5,000+ premium, is still the right choice.



But, I know the choclate and vanilla theory. Good luck.



Florida Ed

 

[klenger]

It is my opinion that if one cannot afford a diesel truck for towing, that you probably can't afford a gasser version either. It's not about economics, it's about having the right tool for the job.



FloridaEd: Response to your sig: "Tho shalt not covet thy neighbor's Cummins". Hope your dreams come true.

 

[ox1]

My brother-in-law has a 3/4 w/Hemi (SUNDAY, SUNDAY, SUNDAY) and he reports mid teens for milage around home religously. Tows race car trailer swell too.



Gasser will start @ 10,000' a LOT better'n an oil burner - that much I can assure you.

 

[CajunDieselMan]

If you don't believe the difference in fuel mileage between diesels and gas engines is that much, take a look at road tests in Trailer Life or some other RV magazine. Toyota gassers hooked to 4000 lb tow-behinds are getting 10-11 mpg, if that. Larger trucks with 5. 4 or 6. 0 gas engines are really bad !

 

[Scrappy]

Gasser will start @ 10,000' a LOT better'n an oil burner - that much I can assure you.

I bought my truck in alaska and never had a problem with it starting in -20 degree weather. and I never plugged it in.

 

[Heavyweight]

This one is an easy pic. GAS! But, there is a caveat. It must have 500-600 HP!!! Then, I am all for it. Everyone in my family has Ford F250 Diesels, and they all say the same thing, WOW. I should have purchased a Diesel. They all had gassers, 460's, 390's, 5. 4 Litres etc. All garbage. They all happen to be FORD motors. And they all got less then 10MPG... . Purchase a Diesel, that means,,,, BUY A DIESEL!

 

[ox1]

I bought my truck in alaska and never had a problem with it starting in -20 degree weather. and I never plugged it in.

How often did you park it @ 10,000' @ -20* overnight in AK? Is -20* colder in AK than it is in the lower? Last I knew there was no place in AK that you could get a truck that high. :-laf



He's retarded and goin to Colorado with a camper. I'm guessing altitude more than cold temps? Me (?) I go in the cold weather - but I don't think he's too concerned aboot that.

 

[J&LRam]

RGardner

In my case I couldn't afford a gasser BB or V10. I drove 110 mi a day work commute and the Cummins has already givin' me back 3500 dollars VS a big gasser. With 50000 + miles on the truck I'll break even in about 15-20000 more miles. The biggest pay back is when time comes to sell/trade the diesel its worth 6-8000 bucks more than a gasser according to KBB on my '03.

Maintenence is another area the Cummins has it over a big gasser. With a 15000/7500 mile oil change schedule none of the gassers can touch it. Fleetguard filters from Genoes are very cheap compared to big gassers.

As mentioned in another post the Cummins has a 350000 mile fleet average before overhaul for reliability. A gasser can't even dream that close.

A gasser for me didn't make cents/sence.

We just got back from 3400 mile trip thru NM/UT/WY/CO/TX/KN towing my 11200 5er. Had a V10 3500 pulling a 25-27 ft TT pass us going up Monarch pass [11300 elev] about one third up. We passed him about the 10000 ft level then on the down side he passed us again. I stopped for fuel at Cannon City the same place he stopped. He thought I had a box because I we passed him at the top. I told him altitude doesn't affect the Cummmins with the turbo. He also told me my brake lites didn't work as he didn't see any on the down side. He seemed pretty excited when I told him the Jacobs EB held all the way down without using the truck brakes. His were hot and stinking.

Gassers can't compete ... ... ... ... . JIM

 

[jtek]

Have him stop in a RV park and talk to some gas truck owners and then he will understand about the pulling power up the mountians or even the cruising speed in the flat lands.



I know many who had a high HP gas motor but they ended up to trade & go with a diesel for towing.



Alan

 

[Scrappy]

How often did you park it @ 10,000' @ -20* overnight in AK? Is -20* colder in AK than it is in the lower? Last I knew there was no place in AK that you could get a truck that high. :-laf



He's retarded and goin to Colorado with a camper. I'm guessing altitude more than cold temps? Me (?) I go in the cold weather - but I don't think he's too concerned aboot that.

Um' Mount Mckinley is in AK and it is 18000 ft (I think, I know it is 10K+), and NO I haven't been that high. what does altitude have any thing to do with starting?

 

[klenger]

Mt Mckinley is actually at 20,300 feet at the summit, but as I remember, you can only drive up to the 3000- 5000 level. I agree though, altitude doesn't have anything to do with starting a diesel, other than it gets colder at aliitude. FWIW, The highest paved roads in the North America are in Colorado.

 

[Tim]

I will never tow with a gasoline engine again.

 

[BHolm]

How often did you park it @ 10,000' @ -20* overnight in AK? Is -20* colder in AK than it is in the lower? Last I knew there was no place in AK that you could get a truck that high. :-laf



He's retarded and goin to Colorado with a camper. I'm guessing altitude more than cold temps? Me (?) I go in the cold weather - but I don't think he's too concerned aboot that.

Why do you think the altitude has any effect? My buddy and I both run CTD's, his is an '00 and mine an '05. We park on top of the passes in CO all winter long. We live at 7500' and haul our sleds to 10,000+, park the trucks there all day and neither of us has ever had any problem starting the trucks. I'm just not sure what you are talking about This is my truck parked near the Sunnyside mine, Silverton CO. The elevation here is approx 10,700. This was May 19 this year. Man I'm gonna miss the snow!

 

[ox1]

Mt Mckinley is actually at 20,300 feet at the summit, but as I remember, you can only drive up to the 3000- 5000 level.



Exactly.



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We live at 7500' and haul our sleds to 10,000+, park the trucks there all day and neither of us has ever had any problem starting the trucks.



I have to dissagree totally.



In either Pitkin or Gunnison I have had it roll right over plenty fast - but take a lot longer to fire than at home. If you live @ 7500, you may not notice the diff and not realize how quickly they fire down here at <1000'.



Your turbo doesn't pack your cyls before it's running. You are working with thin air.



I didn't say that it wouldn't start - but you doo have to crank on it a while longer.



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[thejeepdude]

I didn't say that it wouldn't start - but you doo have to crank on it a while longer.

And you know, you'll NEVER get that half a second back, no matter how hard you try! It's gone forever! You better get a gas truck next time!



Seriously, the elevation thing is a nice side-effect of a motor with forced induction. Those that rely on a vacuum to run (naturally aspirated) can't get as much air/fuel flow. A turbo or supercharged gasser would be an improvement in the mountains as well, but who cares since it won't have the low-end grunt of a diesel!



Everytime someone posts a thread like this, I think to myself... even if diesels got WORSE mileage and the fuel was $1/gal more, I'd still be driving one! It's not about "recouping your costs", it's about enjoying what you drive, and having the means to drive the best!