Difference between B5 (Non-fleet) and B20 (Fleet) Dodge 6.7?

[DPringle]

The 2012 Ram Truck User Guide I downloaded says that only B5 (5% biodiesel) is authorized to maintain the trucks warranty. I noticed on the Dodge website that “Fleet Customers” can get a Dodge Ram 3500 diesel that is B20 (20% biodiesel) capable.



What is the difference between the “Fleet” B20 truck and “Private” B5 truck? Is it mechanical, programming, different filter … or no difference at all??



I'm new to this forum and this is my first post, so if this question has already been asked/answered please point me in the right direction.



Thanks.

 

[Bob4x4]

The 2012 Ram Truck User Guide I downloaded says that only B5 (5% biodiesel) is authorized to maintain the trucks warranty. I noticed on the Dodge website that “Fleet Customers” can get a Dodge Ram 3500 diesel that is B20 (20% biodiesel) capable.



What is the difference between the “Fleet” B20 truck and “Private” B5 truck? Is it mechanical, programming, different filter … or no difference at all??



I'm new to this forum and this is my first post, so if this question has already been asked/answered please point me in the right direction.



Thanks.

Different software,filtration/pump

 

[sag2]

When running B20 with the option turned on the biggest difference noticed will be the oil change interval. It will generally turn on the light around 1500-2000 miles. Bio is very hard on the 6. 7 and improper maintenance will bring on plenty of troubles.

 

[HBarlow]

Biodiesel is a great product if you are a corn farmer in the mid-west. For the rest of us it is bad news.

 

[T Mike]

Sorry Harvey, Biodiesel does not come from corn.

 

[HBarlow]

Ohh? Well please tell us what it is made from.

 

[T Mike]

Soybean oil

 

[AH64ID]

The difference is a added fuel filter/heater/H20 sensor and different fuel pump.

Bio fuels can hold more water so added f/w separation needed. If it's good quality fuel it wont hurt anything if properly filtered. I have ran it a few times and it always quiets my motor and gives me more fuel pressure. Its supposed to give worse fuel economy but I haven't noticed it, thou it does gel quite easy!

Dodge offered a severe duty filtration kit that added all the needed items, and combined with a software flash made the trucks B20 ready. They only offered the kit for a short time and it has since been discontinued so I am not sure what OEM stuff is available.

If you add an additional f/w sep, like the Baldwin BF1212, pre-OEM filter you will have the same filtration ratings as the add on kit.

Ohh? Well please tell us what it is made from.

Let me google that for you

 

[hogsty]

Is it me, or is there actually something funny about a guy named Pringle asking about bio-diesel?

 

[HBarlow]

Soybean oil

Not much difference. Don't all or almost all midwest farmers both grow corn and beans?

 

[RonD]

Bio Diesel is a Vegetable oil, some countries use corn to produce it, we use mostly Soybeans, your Cummins will run on Corn Oil, but mine will never see it in the tank.

 

[HBarlow]

That's what I was thinking. It is apparently made from several different agricultural products.

There won't be any in my tanks either if I can help it. I always try to remember to look for the label before pumping diesel. I quit buying fuel from Flying J the first time I pulled up to a pump and saw the B5 label. I talked with the station manager and he said he wouldn't buy it either.

 

[rscurtis]

I run what I believe to be B5 in my signature truck. The pump at the local Sunoco station is labeled as such, but I have no way of knowing it. I used to have an injector tick at idle, that is now long gone since I started using their fuel.



Biodiesel can also be made from used cooking oil if you don't mind setting up the refinery and procuring the methanol and lye to complete the process. The cost is about $1 per gallon if you can get the grease for free.



Another reason the C&C trucks may be able to use B20 is that they do not have the NOx adsorber to worry about.

 

[Jim W]

Bio Diesel is a Vegetable oil, some countries use corn to produce it, we use mostly Soybeans, your Cummins will run on Corn Oil, but mine will never see it in the tank.

The general definition of biodiesel is copied from this source, http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/definitions/:

Biodiesel is a domestic, renewable fuel for diesel engines derived from natural oils like soybean oil, and which meets the specifications of ASTM D 6751.



Find what I can find and have read up on corn is not included in this definition. Corn is used to make Ethanol, an alcohol that is mixed with gasoline. See quote from Wikipedia site.

Bioethanol is a form of renewable energy that can be produced from agricultural feedstocks. It can be made from very common crops such as sugar cane, potato, manioc and corn.



Another interesting thing I found out in searching this information is that our trucks are shipped from the factory with B5 Diesel in them.

http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/OEM Statements/Diesels_for_Sale_in_US.pdf ,from page 3, Approved for use of B20 Biodiesel by approved fleets; receives B5 factory fill.



I myself try not to run and B5 in my truck but sometimes this is all that is available in the immediate area. Ran into this problem in IA when pulling my 5er.

Jim W.

 

[RustyJC]

Not to quibble, but apparently corn oil is an acceptable feedstock for biodiesel - see HERE and also Google "biodiesel corn oil" to see even more hits.



Rusty

 

[DPringle]

The difference is a added fuel filter/heater/H20 sensor and different fuel pump.

Bio fuels can hold more water so added f/w separation needed. If it's good quality fuel it wont hurt anything if properly filtered. I have ran it a few times and it always quiets my motor and gives me more fuel pressure. Its supposed to give worse fuel economy but I haven't noticed it, thou it does gel quite easy!

Dodge offered a severe duty filtration kit that added all the needed items, and combined with a software flash made the trucks B20 ready. They only offered the kit for a short time and it has since been discontinued so I am not sure what OEM stuff is available.

If you add an additional f/w sep, like the Baldwin BF1212, pre-OEM filter you will have the same filtration ratings as the add on kit.



Let me google that for you

Thanks for all the info! Just to explain, the reason I've asked this question:



I have ordered a 2012 3500 and spend some time in Illinois and have had difficulty finding regular ULSD (most stations have stickers saying it is a biodiesel blend containing 5-20% biodiesel). I also found the 5-20 sticker at a Pilot in Indiana. If the stickers said 5% biodiesel it wouldn't be an issue since Dodge warrants 5% use. Since they don't warrant anything greater I'm not crazy about taking a chance of voiding my warranty, or more importantly, damaging my new truck. It seems crazy that Dodge will sell trucks in Illinois that are only warranted for B5 and you can hardly find fuel that is B5 or below.



I know a diesel mechanic at the dealer where I'm buying the truck, so maybe he can find out if Dodge has any type of severe duty filtration kit (maybe the stuff they use on the B20 fleet trucks).

Do you know if the software flash could be used on the new HO truck without changing the max tow rating? What's different about the fuel pump, and can it be used on a non-fleet truck?



I will research the Baldwin f/w separator for possible use. In the meantime I'll try to only use B5 or less and avoid Illinois as much as possible!

 

[AH64ID]

The only thing the software flash, more of a feature enable than software flash, does is activate a 2nd WIF sensor.

 

[Mhannink]

i think in reality bio diesel can be made from many many sources, its a rather generic term, refering to any fuel that can be used in a diesel engine or in place of fossil diesel fuel, it can even be made from alge, yeah that scum growing on your pond in your back yard. becasue of the variety of sources, i think there is potential for wide spread economical use. i dont think anyone would argue that it is a more viable option than ethanol, but it still may not be sustainable, i am only saying it has the potential, there are still a lot of challenges that need to be overcome and it might be impracticale to do it.

 

[HBarlow]

Biodiesel is only economically viable if you overlook the cost of production. It requires more energy and fuel from other sources to produce than it returns.

It only exists with subsidies robbed from the pockets of ordinary working Americans who don't benefit from it, don't want to use it, and don't want to pay mid-west farmers to produce it.

 

[dlmetzger]

Biodiesel is only economically viable if you overlook the cost of production. It requires more energy and fuel from other sources to produce than it returns.

That's not correct (takes more energy to produce it than it returns).





Biodiesel versus Petroleum Diesel

Fuel * Energy yield Net Energy (loss) or gain



Gasoline 0. 805 (19. 5 percent)

Diesel 0. 843 (15. 7 percent)

Ethanol 1. 34 34 percent

Biodiesel 3. 20 220 percent





The tabular data doesn't work well here.



See the website below:



Energy Balance / Life Cycle Inventory for Ethanol Biodiesel & Petroleum Fuels



Is it economically viable is other question and probably isn't at this point in time. The concept of renewable is a good one, but it still has to be economically sound.



Bio-diesel is just another hydro-carbon from a combustion stand point and will work in a diesel engine. But as mentioned before, it has few issues that can cause problems (water retention and gelling at higher temps than dino diesel are a few).