Dirty little secret about Space Shuttle is out!

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Isn't it amazing that we now discover, that NASA really KNEW for almost 2 WEEKS - that this craft was doomed! To not take a better look-see with the "Big Glass in the sky" - is criminal! To not have the ability to check the beast via spacewalk is like not having life preservers! Now the secret is out - the vaunted NASA folks have No Backup Plan for problems with the weak tile system! They could have taken a herculean effort and launched Atlantis - at least the SOP should require that a backup shuttle be ready. - I know the problems with this - but there are so many many questions weaknesses with this disaster ... ... ... In my opinion the Shuttle's are DONE!
 
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Two weeks! Try more like seven years ago engineers told NASA that debris hitting the tiles on take-off could cause this.
 
strap in

i figure that any one that straps there self to a rocket and live's is lucky, there luck just ran out. god bless the families.
 
Well I have no personal interest in NASA, but you are correct about knowing about problems. It is down right criminal that those who spoke of problems, were silenced. But, that is what some (most) large businesses and government has morphed into. If you ask questions that don't back up higher-ups opinions, then you are labeled.



From those I have known who worked for NASA, these are EXTREMELY smart people. The place (Johnson Space Center) is littered with Masters' and Doctorate level educated folks. To me this is part of the problem. They have very little grounding in understanding that all things mechanical, electrical or otherwise, don't always work as engineering principal dictates. In other words, if the book say's that if X happens, then Y is the result, they (some) are totally baffeled when X happens, and Z is the result.



I work in Pipeline, and the hydraulics of our lines, liquid movement principals, are re-wrote daily. I have seen surges and pressure and gradiant change do things that engineers said were impossible. It's not that they are stupid and I am smart or dumb, it's that all things are not constant therefore throwing a variable into any equation.



And the equation was thrown off when the shuttle lifted off and the tile or whatever fell into the wing. Admittedly, they could not plan for EVERY situation or problem that could come up. BUT, NASA top brass had been warned as early as 1988 or 1989 after the Challenger disaster. They found out thru dillegent investigation that the tiles were MUCH more of an issue than they ever thought.



To end this rant, I do have heartfelt condolences for the families of the crew. But will these same folks, who are standing out in front of the Space Center crying, be there when some of our soldiers are brought back from the looming conflict (war). What makes the average soldier any less worthy to commemorate... ...



P. S. I Support Pres. Bush 100%
 
I'm not gonna point the finger at anyone, or at anything until more information is out there. The crap the media feeds you is to keep you interested, so obviously they are going to keep you primed with what ifs and speculation.



Understand that risks are taken and if certain things happen doom is the inevitable fate. Looks like the tile issue happens to end in doom. There is no way to design something that is 100% fool proof, mistakes will happen. Its up to leadership to strive to limit the mistakes, and i think NASA has done a superb job of this. They have launched a hundred shuttles with 2 major mishaps... its the nature of the business. The mere idea of being able to do that is really incredible. Looks like that new "shuttle" or reusable launch vehicle might be getting some more looking at right now. I think the shuttle program is on the fringe.
 
WOW is all I have to say to HEMI... .



How 'bout that computer chip in that there computer you've got on your desk... think that studies done on Space Shuttles had nothing to do with that? Just about every single thing you use today, in some way, has been effected by the experiments done in space.



You know what's really bad? How many of you even knew a shuttle was currently up there? Or that it was scheduled to come back on Feb 1, 2003? I can tell ya, I go to the number one school in the country for Aerospace Engineering, and I doubt 1/16 of the people at this school even knew! I sure didn't.



Here's a tid-bit of information to think over... the engineers at NASA can probably be regarded as among the top 0. 1% smartest men and women on the face of the Earth ( a lot with just BS in some form of engineering). They do things every day that ol' average Joe would go "Huh?" Every time one of their bosses comes to them with a new project, IT HAS NEVER BEFORE BEEN ATTEMPTED!!! Not only has it not been attempted, IT'S NEVER BEEN CONTEMPLATED!! Every single day these people do the amazing. A man in space? A man on the moon? Go talk to your Grandparents and ask them if they ever thought they'd see the day a person would actually place their feet on the surface of the moon. We take that for granted...commonplace... everyday event. "Oh, looky, a shuttle is lifting off today... yipee. " Know why? They're good at it! Every time a shuttle comes back, it is disassembled, cleaned, rebuilt, put back together, then gone through again! They're basically brand new every time they go up. Oh, and another thing... those engineers I talked about above... they're men and women, just like you and me... people make mistakes. Unfortunately sometimes those mistakes cost lives.



There is no contingency plan for a shuttle mishap, cause honestly what would they do? They train for months on end just to go up for 7 days... let alone just firing up another shuttle and throwing some people on-board to go and do a repair. It don't work like the movies. Space station docking? Impossible. Way too far away, and takes way too much fuel to get there... they don't exactly have extra fuel when they get to their initial orbit for a mission like this.



Tell me HEMI, what part of the shuttle program is a waste of your money? What part of life-saving research did you want no part of?



The only emergency is the one you can't train for... this was one of them.



"Any coward can sit in his home and criticize a pilot for flying into a mountain in a fog. But I would rather, by far, die on a mountainside than in bed. What kind of man would live where there is no daring? And is life so dear that we should blame men for dying in adventure? Is there a better way to die?"

-Lindbergh, Charles Jr.



Prayers for the families of the men and women lost on Columbia. They're hereos every child should look up to.



Josh



EDIT: Forgot the quote
 
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Rather

I also think NASA has done a excellent job. These dangers are consistant with every flight that they have made since the begining of the space program. To have only three mishapes in the last forty years is an excellent record.



There are several things that are a waste of money in our goverment, this is not one.
 
Didn't you see that special on t. v. about the entire moon landing being a hoax. I know I believe EVERYTHING I see on t. v. and THE INTERNET:rolleyes: :rolleyes: . Seriously though I'm guilty of not knowing that there was a shuttle up. It has seemed to become almost routine. It's a shame these HEROES only get major recognition when something goes wrong:( ... . Doug
 
My random thoughts for what its worth….





The higher end the technology the more that can and will go wrong. The space program has a high degree of success. Some shared technology exists in commercial aircraft that travels everyday. Without the shuttle program I feel there would be more accidents in commercial flight.





I do not have a problem with the space program continuing, I do have a problem with the fact that engineers may have known that this flight was doomed at the start and apparently did not attempt to correct that flaws. If engineers new years ago this problem exist and did not test other options.



I’m ultimately responsible for all computer systems at work, I’m paid to think of and prevent worse case scenario before it happens. We have do some work with government and are have to guarantee 98% up time or risk losing contracts. Months ago the email systems group wanted to do some product testing on production systems against my protest they did it anyway. We got hacked and were down for about two hours.



Well the good old government boys called and threaten to pull the contracts. After many meetings and documentation of uptime for the past year all parties came to an understanding.





Since this incident everyone has learned to test in a controlled environment…. why can’t NASA do the same? (Assumeing recent reports are true)
 
We all have to die someday.

These astronauts get to do the unimaginable, riding maybe the greastest thrill ride there is. They open new frontiers. Their efforts eventually trickle down to the common man hopefully making for a better life. Yes, it is sad that they died and more brave men and women will die in the years to come reaching out further and further. We can learn from this, pick up the pieces and go on. Leave the arm chair quarterbacking and sniveling and whinning to the bottom feeders where it belongs.
 
I hate to say this, but NASA along with everybody else has this. It is called a budget :{ They are incredibly smart people, much more than you or I. Better technologies can be developed but that costs money.



If a sensor shows a wing getting hot on the space shuttle, the computer (yes, the computer controls the flight, not the humans, because we are not fast enough and we make mistakes) rolls that wing up to remove it from the heat. Only the bottom of the shuttle has those tiles (which are very thick 12" +). The sides and top have a different insulating material. If the machine roles to one side to cool off one wing, you are exposing a part that was not designed to withstand that amount of heat. Heat any alloy beyond its yield point and it become plastic and structurally weak.



If a tile was missing on that wing, when the wing got hot, the computer automatically rolled the wing up. When you are going 12,500 mph a 1 degree change in pitch could exponentially increase the g-forces on that aircraft causing a breakup from the rear forward. Also, if a tile is missing, you are changing aerodynamics of the wing, creating even more turbulence and stress. If a tile is missing, that is allowing heat in where there is no tile. The glue that holds those tiles is not designed to handle that amount of heat. Heat one section of glue, it will transfer to the surrounding tile glue. Heating of that glue weakens it causing other tiles to “pop” off. Once this starts, the tiles will begin to unzip like a jacket. Loose enough tiles, structural integrity will be lost to the generated heat.



Even if they knew there was a problem from the start, once they hit the go button and those solid fuel rockets start, there is no "off switch". There is also no launching of other the 6 other NASA shuttles or one the 3 gray (military) shuttles. The time factor just does not exist. It takes months to plan for a mission. There was just nothing they could do, even if they knew. If there was a visible structural problem with the craft, trust me, if our satellites can read a newspaper on the ground from space, they would be able to see a crack on the wing. If you knew seven people were doomed, but there was a slim chance of survival, would you tell them (the astronauts)? Yes. Would you inform the entire country of something that might happen, which might cause panic? I do not think so.



Upon reentry, once they hit the exosphere, there is not enough fuel to propel the shuttle back into orbit speed, let alone put it into the correct orbit path to dock with the space station. Even if they could dock with the space station, how would they survive for the length of time it would take to bring them back. :confused:

It is truly a shame that this happened, but there was nothing they could have done. Should the space program continue, YES! If I had the opportunity, even if the risk of failure was elevated, I would give my right leg to up now.



Just one more stupid fact, they (Hollywood) show the space shuttle breaking orbit and flying into space. That is a lie. The shuttle can only get a few miles up into orbit. It does not travel fast enough to break orbit, (somewhere around 32,000 mph) let alone make to another planet. It can’t even reach the Intel satellites that are at 23,500 miles (the geosynchronous satellites).



Just my $0. 02, sorry for being so long, just looking at the C/A

-Rich

P. S. go ahead and bash my theory
 
As a taxpayer who has pumped hundreds of thousands of dollars into the system, the space program has been one of the better investments of my money. I would just like to see them put forth a "stretch" technical objective and timetable (and adequately fund it) as I saw with the lunar landing program in the '60s - man does his finest work when challenged.



Rusty
 
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Insulation?????

About 10 years ago NASA changed the type of insulation used on the fuel tank because of environmental concerns???:rolleyes:



It now the insulation falls off more during launch.....
 
NASA said that it could not repair the tiles in space. Seems that as intelligent as they are, someone would develop a process to install some new tiles. Kinda like going on a very long trip without a spare tire. These people are so smart that they lack common sense. If they could save Apollo 13 with all the problems it had, they could figure out how to save a shuttle. Thanks, Kenny
 
Shuttle

I also don't really understand why they couldn't send up the other shuttle with the stuff to repair the damage or just to bring all home safe, I think they took a chance with the lives of other's. Harv
 
space program

I am sure if we could ask the astronauts that gave their lives if the space program was worth staying in and should continue they would answer 'absolutely'. I agree with those of you that think the space program is one of the better uses of our taxpayers money. Nevertheless, I hated to hear they died.
 
On CNN's website yesterday there were animations of the various possible rescue scenarios, and the problems with each, Seems that they could have put Atlantis up in two weeks with a big risk,



There were space suits on the shuttle and people trained to use them, but no scooter packs to move them, Alos no tile repair kits, What I am left with is that if all possible contingencies were thought of and countermeasures for each of them stored on board would there be any room left for anything else. It may have been the tiles this time, there are other possibilities that could have done it as well. After all there is a lot of technology on the shuttle, much of it for life support.



The space program is vital to our very future and we are fortunate to have people willing to take the risks, It is the ONLY ride better than my truck. Bless them all and godspeed to them,



AC
 
Re: Rather

Originally posted by Champane Flight

I also think NASA has done a excellent job. These dangers are consistant with every flight that they have made since the begining of the space program. To have only three mishapes in the last forty years is an excellent record.



There are several things that are a waste of money in our goverment, this is not one.





I agree 110% with this guy!
 
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