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2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Disable ABS

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The idea behind ABS is excellent.



The application of this technology on some vehicles is poor. Our trucks are unfortunately one of these examples. I have also experienced the sudden "release" of nearly all of my breaking power upon semi-hard breaking while hitting a bumpy patch in the road - causing me to nearly hit the vehicle in front of me.



I have also driven vehicles with amazing ABS systems that will stop you on a dime and give you a nickle in change!



I'd agree with Steve that real driver training is lacking in the U. S. in general. I was fortunate enough to attend the Bondurant School of High Performance Driving for 4 days... I HIGHLY recommend it! :D Quite possibly the most fun thing I have ever done - while also being an eye opening experience. Prior to attending I had driven many high performance cars and bikes in the US and on the Autobahn in Germany and thought I could only slightly improve my skill set. Boy was I wrong. The typical driver out there is at best "terrible".



The problem is that in the U. S. , driving is seen as a "right", not as a privilege (and part of this 'problem' is the lack of public transportation and the sheer distances between points - not a bad problem to have). In many European countries, driver training is mandatory and it typically costs $5K in training prior to getting a license. If you roll back an inch (in a manual transmission) you will fail your exam! Other factors that contribute to safer driving there is the higher age (18) required to be licensed and the fact that alcohol consumption is typically learned PRIOR to driving - sure, you'll have some 15 and 16 year olds getting into drunk bicycling accidents, but by the time they are driving they know when not to get in a car. Actually, drinking there is so relaxed that the big mystery about it is simply not there come age 18. Same thing with sex and topless women... . if you see them at the beach all the time (topless women that is), it's not such an awkward, taboo subject later in life. So I guess my whole point here is: WE NEED MORE TOPLESS WOMEN!:D
 
David, no one is saying "they are all wrong". In my opinion,

Just the ones we have. Especially the one in my last truck - 2000 dodge.

It got so bad I was afraid to drive it.
 
A little history is in order here after reading this post. The current ABS technology that we all love or hate, depending on your experience is a result of technology developed in aviation. This type of braking system was developed for airplanes back in the mid-fifties. It was designed to allow the pilot to land a jet aircraft and be able to apply the brakes without-locking up the tires. Why you ask. At landing speeds if the pilot applied the brakes and a tire blew out because the tire locked up on a wet runway, life became fatal.



ABS will not stop you any faster, a point of fact is that if you are a skilled driver with the older style brakes, you can and will stop quicker.



The automotive manufactures looked at this technology and decided that in applying it to their product, the advantages gained in wet weather and winter driving in the control factor were worth the effort. ABS brakes work most effectively when you just stand on them and do not release. If you activate them you should hear a growling as the brakes modulate on and off to keep from locking up the wheels. The modulation is what allows you to control the car. The secret is to keep the pressure on and not let off.



The big difference between aircraft and cars, aircraft are on a nice straight runway with no obstacles or curves and the pilot is just finishing up a controlled crash (landing) to the ground. Automotive drivers on the other hand, believe that can stop on a dime and that ABS will watch out for them. So 9 time out of 10, they are either following too close or going too fast for the conditions at hand.



Let us not blame a good system for the failings or drivers through their lack of understanding of the system and its workings or just plain stupidity of poor driving habits.



Thats my 2 cents.
 
I'm with Fox on this one. I have ABS in all 4 of my cars and trucks and they all work fine... except the Dodge truck. That ABS system is so touchy that a puddle or a rough road will engage the 4 wheel ABS and then for about a second there is nothing! No pulsing no stopping... nothing. :eek: It looks like it will be a tragedy when all at once, and with a pucker factor of about 9. 5 on the sphincter scale, the ABS finally pulses away and you stop 35 feet from where you would have stopped without it. I can tell you when the brakes go away you do NOT pull your foot off the pedal. You plant that darn pedal with everything you have.

I took it to the dealer about 6 times with always the same complaint and with the same results. It's working as specified. Yea Right!!:mad: :mad: :-{}

I gave up and removed the plug from the ABS sensor. Now it stops and slides but I can stop.

I spent an extra 500$ for it and it has never worked. I actually like ABS in my Toyota and my Ford and it works seamlessly and without fault But in the Dodge I can't tolerate the pucker factor when it engages.

-Paul R. Haller-
 
A thought just came to mind about the brakes in our trucks. These trucks have a nitrogen pressure resivor. To pump the resivor back up, it uses the power steering pump if I am not mistaken. Could the problems that people are seeing be associated with this style or combination of brakes and power steering. If the driver is making a rapid avoidance turn and needs the brakes, which system has priority:confused: Anybody know an engineer at DC to pose this question too:confused:
 
I think you're right about our trucks. Mine a '99 with abs in the rear did go back to the shop with no improvement. It will lock up the back wheels unloaded on a wet road with out much coaxing. It really doesn't work. On the other hand the 1986 Mercedes diesel with foot to the floor on the brake does very well in snow with full force braking; as well or better than I could have done in the old days. I would have to work at it with lots power and no brakes to do a loop. I guess I always blamed the dealer for not getting the truck sorted out.



I've got a cousin who flies 737 and he said that you could touchdown with the brakes full on and held that way and stay in perfect contol. That coupled with the thrust reversers made for a seatbelt wrenching experience.



This technology will get better I expect. I do wish mine worked properly though.
 
Mundgyver, you might just have something there with the hydro assist brakes. Perhaps the reason I have no complaints with my ABS and others do is because I have the vacuum assist on my '95s.

2500 has 4 wheel and the 3500 rear only.
 
Originally posted by Mundgyver

Let us not blame a good system for the failings or drivers through their lack of understanding of the system and its workings or just plain stupidity of poor driving habits.

Thats my 2 cents.



Fair enough. But let me add: Let us not blame good drivers for the failings of some systems, or allow our own lack of first hand experience with one of the bad systems to lead us to incorrectly assume that stupidity or poor driving habits must be the real problem. Read the posts above. Are some of these drivers "smart" and "well trained with good habits" when driving the three of their four ABS equipped vehicles? Do these exact same drivers suddenly become "just plain stupid" and/or "don't understand" when they get behind the wheel of their Dodge, because when driving their truck they feel the ABS isn't working the way a "good" ABS system should? I think not.
 
HC,



If I have ruffled feathers of individuals within this post, it was not meant to come out that way. Everyone that has posted here, brings legitimate concerns to the table. If they have a suspect system that is causing them problems, they know that it will need looking into.



You asked in a round about way if I read the post? Yes I have and my reference was to the statement by Shovelhead and his posting stated below:



"I think that the last paragraph of JR's post hit the nail on the head. There are too many mediocre & untrained drivers depending on "Technology" to save their behinds when their lack of experience gets them in over their heads. If there were no seatbelts, safety glass, ABS, front, rear, and side Airbags, Traction Control, Automatic 4X4, etc, these folks might have to slow down and drive within their abilities. "



and he was referencing to JR2's statement of



"I bet the increase in accidents is caused by people pushing the limits of thre cars. Know what I mean... . well the car handles so much better and can stop on a dime, why not drive 130mph down this highway. . "



My statement of:



"Let us not blame a good system for the failings or drivers through their lack of understanding of the system and its workings or just plain stupidity of poor driving habits. "



dovetails with his and JR2 while not quoting them directly. I standby my statement based on these conversations that were held before me. If you took them as a slight toward you or anyone on this forum, them I am sorry for the mis-understanding.



-Wally Mund-
 
Originally posted by Steve St. Laurent

BTW, when I bought my Dodge I specifically looked for and bought a truck with rear wheel only ABS. 4 wheel ABS was a deal buster for me.



Me, too- and my RWAL sucks. I'd love to be able to disable it.
 
So, How do you disable the ABS?



The best way I can see is to tie into the wiring harness and supply 12 to the computer so it thinks the unit is in 4 wheel drive. You would need to add a diode so the 4x4 light doesn't come on.



Is this what people have done or ??



If you prefer not to post here, feel free to email me or send to moparrules@emu. edu



Thanks!



I use to race in SCCA in the late 80's early 90's. I ran a Chrysler Conquest TSi - and I always disabled the rear ABS for better braking control!
 
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