disc brake conversion

[mroidt]

Hey , I just found this on the next page, same forum.



www.tsmmfg.com



look here, a little more reasonably priced brakes.

 

[John]

I can tell you this...



the 3-piece (per side) caliper mounts (1 "H" plate, 1 "C" plate, and 1 "(" plate) are EXACTLY what are provided in the EGR rear disc conversion kit.



In addition to their $394. kit price (caliper mounts, hardware and rotors) you would have to add $300. for the two calipers with emergency brakes, plus $50. for the two 8" braided stainless steel brake hose extensions.



However, that does not address the E-brake installation kit EGR provides or the 16 modified wheel studs they also provide (*).



* : Earlier this week I discovered that the 16 modified wheel studs I received from EGR were basically crap! You see, the counterbores machined into the rear rotors were . 950" dia. (x . 110" to . 150" deep... measuring all 8 counterbores in 1 rotor). The OD of the wheel stud heads were 1". EGR decided their best course of action was to back grind (by hand, using a bench grinder ) the head, chamfering approx. 1/2 the head thickness to allow it to "start" in the counterbore when being pressed (or beat) in. Not good! [BTW, there is no room for shank "movement" of the stud as it registers in both the rotor as well as the hub. The front wheel studs only pass " somewhat loosely" through the rotor, registering into the hub/bearing assembly. What does this mean you say? There is NO room for movement or any kind or tolerance per 'se. ]



My fix? I purchased another 16 studs (locally) and had a friend turn down the periphery on the heads (parallel to the stud shank... unlike EGR) to . 935". This worked great however, it was discovered by my friend that the centerline of the head was not always on centerline with the shank... at least not on all the studs. Irrespective, although a few of them (roughly 5-6 of them) appeared to be turned off center, they were actually being "trued up" (to the shank centerline) and they ended up installing much better than the EGR supplied counterparts.



BTW, the complete rear disc conversion kit price from EGR is $995.



Just like they always say...



if ya want something done right you have to do it yourself!

 

[nwinters]

John,

I haven't seen either setup but have a question. Why couldn't you drill the counterbore holes in the rotor to make the clearance you need instead of turning down all these bolts? Seems like it may be easier that way.



Nate

 

[John]

Actually Nate, yes, you could do that. I am a machinist and also have a limited number of counterbores and pilots. However, I didn't have the correct counterbore or pilot. Then, after looking more closely at the rotors, I saw that the existing counterbores were pretty much right up against the inside "peripheral" wall of the rotor so there's not much room to increase the diameter of the counterbores. Besides, even if you could increase the diameter of the counterbore to attain the 1" dia. needed for the heads on the studs, you would require an extra margin of safety in order to accommodate studs with the heads forged a little off center of the stud shanks.



Irrespective, you either modify 16 studs or 16 counterbores.



Now, if you are referring to drilling out (actually, reaming would be better and more precise) the "through" holes in the rotor that are at each counterbore location...



that isn't really required. The diameter on the stud just beneath the head that registers in the rotor is ever so slightly a press fit (I haven't measured the ID or OD... just by "educated" feel); this fit is ok as long as all 8 holes in the rotor as well as the hub share (precisely) the same locations. The studs register in the rotors with a precise diameter whereas they register into the hubs with a serrated (oversize) diameter that swage into the ID of the hub holes.



Also, I could have modified the 16 supplied (by EGR) studs however, I elected not to for several reasons:



1) I didn't like the quality of the back grinding job by EGR on the stud heads



2) I had already hammered the living ***** out of 8 (1 rotors worth) of studs with a borrowed air hammer using a mandrel that I figured would beat the living tar out of the heads... but used it anyway ( )



3) I do not like to "re-use" studs once they've been installed. Even though these were only approx. 1/8" (+/-) away from being fully seated in the rotor counterbores, a subsequent inspection after extraction revealed that most of the serrations were already "compromised. "



4) I wanted my rear studs to "match" my front studs ( )

 

[P Madrid]

John, what does the E-brake (parking Brake) kit consists off?



I called TSMMFG a while back and they confirm that EGR does buy their kit from them with out rotors. Cost of the hardware kit without rotors was about $245 and you can pick up a set of drilled & slotted rotors from Car Quest for about $150, EGR's are only slotted.



Does the EGR kit come with their pads or is that extra?



Did you talk to Glen at EGR about the studs?



Sorry about all the questions but this is my next project and would like to start and finish in one day without having to modify components or parts. Lately all of my bolt on project have required some modification to make them fit, the worst one is my auto trans with a different out put shaft size, requiring a different yoke which I'm still waiting for.



Pablo

 

[John]

NO, I did not talk to Glenn about the studs. Although he seems to be a great guy, we have had several disagreements about pricing (once I accurately calculated things out on prices he'd previously given me), as well as metallurgical differences about... what else, studs (more specifically, plated studs -vs- unplated studs). Anyway, as I wasn't really in the mood for any amount of BS or a whitewash attitude he may impart, I decided to step over this obvious "first step" in deficient product resolution.



Regarding the rear rotors, no they are neither slotted or cross drilled. Glenn felt that it was not necessary or even advantageous. In fact, he stated that slotted front rotors are extremely beneficial, and that's what they offer for the front portion of their Severe Service brake package (along with the Carbon/Kevlar brake pads etc. ). But, he also pointed out that through extensive testing, they found that cross drilling the front rotors (in addition to or in place of) slotting them would still lead to heat checking/cracking... not good!



Another thing that chapped my a$$...



In all previous pics of the three (ea. side) rear caliper mounting plates, they were shown to be zinc dicromate plated (or cadmium plated with a gold irridite) finish (like the supplied grade 8 fasteners). What I received was "raw", hot rolled steel plates that had been run through a tumbling operation and were just starting to rust in places. As many of you know, that absolutely wouldn't do for my Ram! So, I decided I would spend some time further deburring the edges etc. and then took them in to be sand blasted and powder coated. Although they look nice now, it cost me time and money for an already expensive kit. And besides, even though they do look good now, I still would have preferred the zinc dichromate look.



Anyway, I suppose that's enough sniveling for now...



I just hope the e-brake portion of this installation goes better than other facets of my previous toilment. However, I rather doubt it. After reading many, many, posts on this very subject, it sounds like it will challenge my PITA as well as my Mickey Mouse tolerance... we'll see.



Do it in one day? I suppose so... IF everything is totally understood, expertly prepped ahead of time, all the right components fit as envisioned, certain deficiencies in "things" can be overlooked... I 'spose. [BTW, I pretty much had all the aforementioned items in place prior to starting this project except for the last one which I refuse to be a part of... and there's no way to anticipate the unknown. Plus, where was it stated I had to become the QC department or engineer for a vendor selling me an awefully high-priced kit that should have had all the pitfalls rectified prior to offering the kit for sale?]



And yes, semi-metallic pads come with the EGR rear brake calipers. BTW, the calipers I received appeared to be new. I asked Glenn about purchasing Carbon/Kevlar pads for the rear... he said I don't need them. When I pressed him about wanting a set anyway, he stated that they didn't even make them. Additionally, I also asked about purchasing slotted rear rotors... he stated they weren't necessary either. After another lengthy conversation on the subject, I finally decided that I would go with his best advice and purchase the plain rear rotors. However, I got the feeling if I really wanted the slotted rear rotors he would have made it happen (for even more money!)



I feel that the products I ordered are of high quality for the most part although I felt cheated at the "bait-and-switch" tactic pertaining to the rear caliper mounting plates. Then I thought about the part that every manufacturer states in their product literature...



We reserve the right to change... ...



Whatever!

 

[KFroese]

are you useing the old caddy eldo calipers on your dodge?

 

[John]

From what Glenn of EGR told me, the rear calipers they supply were also used on GM vehicles however, not on the cars. The EGR supplied units have a larger piston... they were previously used on trucks.

 

[KFroese]

i used to spin a wrench for a living and i can't figure out for the life of me what gm vehicle had a caliper with an E brake set up other than the old eldo caliper. or is the E brake seperate from the caliper?



if you could shed any light on it i'd appreciate it.

 

[John]

KFroese, I only relayed what Glenn had told me. I know the topic of the rear caliper used in the EGR rear disc upgrade kit was a topic of discussion on here back about 9-10 months ago... when Eric Buckels (EricBu12) installed his EGR kit. After reading all the posts filled with negative comments surrounding the GM calipers "used in the kit", I decided to discuss this specific issue with Glenn as I was just about ready to order the EGR front and rear (disc brake) Severe Service upgrade kits myself (and did shortly thereafter).



Glenn told me that he had read all the posts on the TDR BB and that the calipers used on GM cars were not the same ones used on GM trucks. He stated that the truck version utilized a larger piston and seemed to be more reliable. If I remember correctly, he stated that the e-brake design was the same for both the car and truck calipers. Whether that is the case or not, his story was very convincing. I guess you could say I bought it hook, line, and sinker.



And no, the e-brake is not separate (or divorced) from the caliper.

 

[KFroese]

since you researched it i'll save you my opinion of the calipers.



i'm sure you know the pistons get turned in and not just compressed. a nice trick for getting a decent pedal and adjustment on them... ... once you have it all mounted and set up. retract the E brake by hand useing the lever on the caliper. as the piston comes out take a flat screw driver and catch the lip on the piston to hold it out and release the E brake. if you do that a few times the piston will rachet out , stop just short of a slight drag. it was the best way we figured out to adjust them.

 

[John]

Thanks for the heads up, I'm almost to that point.