Disc Brakes for Campers?

[Killgore]

Has anyone installed after-market disc brakes on their camper? I suspect I am getting to the point of needing new brakes and rather than going with a drum replacement kit would be better off spending a few dollars more and getting the disc brake kit. Your thoughts would be appreciated.

- Ed

 

[GAmes]

I've looked at disc brake kits, but have only found them for the lower weight rated axles. I would love to find some for the 5200 lb axles I have, even though the brakes are relatively new and forward self adjusting. If you do decide to stick with drum brakes I found on my last 5er that buying pre-assembled backing plates and new hubs is less expensive and considerably less work than replacing shoes, magnets, springs and finding a shop that can turn the hubs.

 

[Killgore]

I did a little searching and found the same results. Better to go with the whole kit rather than piece it together and futz around with the labor.
- Ed

 

[MichaelOverfield]

I almost did the conversion to disc when I had issues with bad OEM bearings, and had to replace all the brakes, and bearing and hubs.. but the cost was getting up there (well over $1000, e-trailer had them), and when I realized I'd need a new Prodigy brake controller, to the newer version to do the electric over hydraulic for the disc brakes.. that was the final straw. I'm on a pair of 3500# axles, so there was a kit ready to go for that common set up.

I did a number of upgrades on the electric brakes, I think the big one was a complete re-wire, the OEM used wire way too small in size, and that limits the brake performance significantly, the OEM wires also wore through insulation and grounded the axle tubes, which I also found full of water! I had to dry them out using compressed air and heat and properly seal them..

With new brakes, new wires the brakes work noticeably better than new (and have self adjust, so no neat to manually adjust for wear.

Also, when the grounding began to happen, it was intermittent, and near impossible to isolate (and certainly invisible being inside the axle tubes), so on the re-wire I got water proof connector sets (similar to vehicle OEM type plugs), have a connector for each drum brake, so I can individually isolate for trouble shooting if needed, also I can isolate the wire in the axle tube, so future isolation of problems are possible on the road, worse case I pull the plugs for an axle, and retain at least one axle, way better than no brakes at all. As originally configured, all the brake magnets are hardwired together, one fails, you lose them all, and can't even check by meter to find which of the 4 (or more) are bad unless a wire is cut.. just not a good design at all.

Also, concur on going with kit.. pieces seem to add up to perhaps even more in cost, then there is labor.. just no reason to go that route.. but keeping good old parts as spares for a road repair kit is an option!

 

[Cummins12V98]

E Trailer Kodiak Disk kit. Fairly easy job. You will wish you had done it sooner!

 

[Larry Willard]

I switched to discs when I ordered the new HitchHiker. They are fantastic as far as stopping goes. Mine are 8000 lb axles. Look at Kodiak discs as 12V98 said.
Larry

 

[RUSSELL5000]

I have seen kits from Kodiak and Titan. I want to do. More cost than rebuild/replace drum brake.

 

[mwilson]

I almost did the conversion to disc when I had issues with bad OEM bearings, and had to replace all the brakes, and bearing and hubs.. but the cost was getting up there (well over $1000, e-trailer had them), and when I realized I'd need a new Prodigy brake controller, to the newer version to do the electric over hydraulic for the disc brakes.. that was the final straw. I'm on a pair of 3500# axles, so there was a kit ready to go for that common set up.

I did a number of upgrades on the electric brakes, I think the big one was a complete re-wire, the OEM used wire way too small in size, and that limits the brake performance significantly, the OEM wires also wore through insulation and grounded the axle tubes, which I also found full of water! I had to dry them out using compressed air and heat and properly seal them..

With new brakes, new wires the brakes work noticeably better than new (and have self adjust, so no neat to manually adjust for wear.

Also, when the grounding began to happen, it was intermittent, and near impossible to isolate (and certainly invisible being inside the axle tubes), so on the re-wire I got water proof connector sets (similar to vehicle OEM type plugs), have a connector for each drum brake, so I can individually isolate for trouble shooting if needed, also I can isolate the wire in the axle tube, so future isolation of problems are possible on the road, worse case I pull the plugs for an axle, and retain at least one axle, way better than no brakes at all. As originally configured, all the brake magnets are hardwired together, one fails, you lose them all, and can't even check by meter to find which of the 4 (or more) are bad unless a wire is cut.. just not a good design at all.

Also, concur on going with kit.. pieces seem to add up to perhaps even more in cost, then there is labor.. just no reason to go that route.. but keeping good old parts as spares for a road repair kit is an option!

I have a shopping cart full of stuff to order today from e-Trailer. I had an excessive amp draw last weekend and lost the brakes for about 20 miles. Then they came back....GRRRRRRRR.

So I am changing all four brake units, rewiring to 12 gauge wire and am going to remove the wires from the axle tube. I will simply route them externally and secure the wire to the axle.

Looked at the disc but I think if I do the wiring properly (as Keystone should have done in the first place) the electric brakes will be fine.

 

[TLane]

Instead of running the wire down the axle tube, run a wire from the junction box at the front down each side - then drop down to each axle. Equal length runs (as close as possible) means equal current to each brake, which means equal braking. It may not be perfect, but at least you can do a lot better than the factory method of running an extra length of wire from one side to the other.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Can I ask why not use 10 gauge wire? I looked at chart, and assuming a 20 foot run (long trailer, but being conservative) and a 15 amp draw, you would want 10 AWG.

I suppose it is somewhere in the service manual, but what gauge is used to feed the plug on the truck - and in the trailer pigtail.

Are disc brakes becoming common? What brake controller do you use if you have disc brakes?

Thanks.

 

[MichaelOverfield]

I have a shopping cart full of stuff to order today from e-Trailer. I had an excessive amp draw last weekend and lost the brakes for about 20 miles. Then they came back....GRRRRRRRR.

So I am changing all four brake units, rewiring to 12 gauge wire and am going to remove the wires from the axle tube. I will simply route them externally and secure the wire to the axle.

Looked at the disc but I think if I do the wiring properly (as Keystone should have done in the first place) the electric brakes will be fine.

High amp as you had sounds exactly like the worn wire insulation in the axle tube which I had, this is more the Al-Ko axle issue in my case.. I pulled the original wire, and routed a new 12 GA wire, double insulated in the axle tube following the original path, it took wire conduit lube to get the bigger wires in the holes, and I had to re-do it on one axle.. If I had to do it again, I'd go the route mentioned by TLane and route to each drum directly avoiding the axle tube wiring entirely... knowing what I know now... I'll see if I have any pictures of my external conduit I used for the new wires, I wanted to avoid removal of the basement covers on my rig, and using a mixture of PVC and flex conduit I ran the wires from the terminal box all the way to the wheels, outside the frame. I also found some really shoddy wiring in the junction box and fixed that too.. OEM work was pathetic. I also solder ALL my connections, then seal them. Liquid electrical tape is amazing stuff and holds up very well over time.. worth it to seal all your connections well to keep corrosion out, especially since your in a salted road state...

 

[MichaelOverfield]

Oh, one more mention, consider a waterproof connector set for each drum.. this way in future you can individually troublshoot a bad magnet, and on the road isolate it, so you at least have SOME brakes, not the all or nothing that the permanent connectors will offer.. you simply can't figure out which wheel is bad if you can't connect/disconnect them one at a time. Given what I know about the wire in axle tube grounding issue, I also added a connector to isolate that too if needed.. but avoid this and direct wire as TLane suggests and you'll be better off for sure.

Picture shows the waterproof connector for each drum brake that I installed.

Here is a link to the connectors I used, good price, you do have to assemble them as they come as a bag of parts, but it is pretty obvious how they go together....
http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BSOV36W?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00

 

[MichaelOverfield]

Russell,
When I looked into it, the newest Prodigy brake controller (I recall blue, maybe green LED display) will power the electric over-hydraulic unit that the disc brakes use, but my model Prodigy won't (previous model, but still available new in many places (red led display))... It was listed in the specifications.

 

[Killgore]

As I continue to research, attempt to justify, and have that proverbial argument with myself, I have found that the disc brake upgrade is about a $1000 over the cost of a complete drum brake replacement using kits. The labor difference I didn't consider because I will talk my wife into doing most of the work, lol. Of course I now have concerns about the TIPM on my 2006 seeing a difference in voltage and independently deciding to over-ride the system and shutting everything down. Is this possible? Do I need to wire directly to the batteries? Help!?

Also, a call to Keystone revealed that my Cougar High Country has 4400 lb. axles. Great! That's right, I'm back to my rant about manufacturers that use components that just barely make the grade (tires, wheels, axles, brakes, etc.). Fully loaded my camper grosses about 10,450 lbs. with a pin weight of 1,500 lbs. I hate to always depend on the design engineer who builds in that 20% or 30% safety factor to make allowances for the manufacturer who cuts corners. Something about product liability comes to mind. Am I being just a grumpy old engineer that spent 25 years reading specifications and doing design work?

- Ed

 

[mwilson]

Mine had 4400 lb Al-Ko axles, I upgraded to 6000 lb Dexter. Everything will bolt on if you order the correct axle. A night and day difference in tire wear and tow ability.

 

[Killgore]

Thanks, Mike. I'll look into this also.

 

[GAmes]

Also, a call to Keystone revealed that my Cougar High Country has 4400 lb. axles. Great! That's right, I'm back to my rant about manufacturers that use components that just barely make the grade (tires, wheels, axles, brakes, etc.). Fully loaded my camper grosses about 10,450 lbs. with a pin weight of 1,500 lbs.

That is the major reason I went with Northwood. NO LIPPERT FRAMES!! 11,500 GVWR, two 5200 lb axles.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Ed,

You have exactly the same grumps about suspension components that I did when I first came to understand this stuff. IMHO, ridiculous. I think the axles on GAMES trailer are insufficient - much better, yes, clearly - but what happens when a tire goes flat and load shifts? I favor the approach of the axles being more than adequate PRIOR to consideration of the pin weight.

If the cash is available then I suggest axle upgrade to Dexter 6,000. This will open all of the good tire possibilities at 16 inch diameter as well as allow a 12 inch diameter drum brake rather than a 10 inch diameter (I reasoned this out before I was aware of disc brake kits). This is not a cheap date, however - a big drawback.

The thing that gets me is that this scrimping saves so little money. There is not that much of a price difference between a 4400 Dexter axles and 6000 Dexter axle. Why not at least give the customer an option?

 

[mwilson]

In my case my 4400 lb axles had the 12" brakes along with the common bearing combo that will accept an 8 stud hub. All that I had to do was order and purchase the axles themselves. Came with the spring perches all welded on.
I can upgrade to 8 stud with a simple hub/drum change.


I will gladly walk anyone through the process of ordering, very easy if you can run a tape measure and say 3/16 instead of my wife's "Three little marks.."

 

[Killgore]

This project is beginning to get pretty involved and rather expensive. I called Dexter and was told that the 4400 lb. axle was specially made for the camper manufacturers. I can't find an electric over hydraulic disc conversion kit to fit that size axle, you have to upgrade which is definitely a good idea. Great Scot! It looks like there would be a tremendous market for the disc brakes if it were less aggravating, and it would be more economical if you didn't have to rebuild the whole running gear. Russell, you are correct. And, I suppose if an upgrade to a beefier suspension was offered, it might be viewed as an admission of inadequacy, not to mention that the electric drum brakes are on the cutting edge of technology for 1946.

- Ed