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2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Disk brake upgrade to 2nd gen trucks

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johnjackson

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I wondering if anybody has some mileage on a disk brake upgrade and how they like it. Something stopping me from going forward with this is the emergency brake. EGR offers a rear wheel disk brake/with e-brake kit for about 1k for our early drum brake rear end trucks. The e-brake simply clamps the rear disk. Disk brakes, famously don't lock up easily. I know my 4 wheel disk brake car uses small drums for the e-brake. So does the EGR e-brake hold well?
 
John, I had the EGR rear disc conversion on my last truck; an 00' 6spd, 4X4 heavily modified for 120K miles before selling it 2 years ago. The EGR brakes were well made, easily installed and effective. As you note, it was difficult to get the emergency brake linkage adjusted to the point where rear discs were effective on boat-ramps or steep hills. I did finally get it adjusted right but it took a lot of work.
 
I had the EGR conversion on my '97 for 140K miles before selling it. Brakes worked great, but as stated above, it took some doing to get the emerg. brake adjusted. This would not stop me from doing the conversion again.
 
Invest in an exhaust brake first. I had the rear brake disc installed by a great mechanic and didn't reap the rewards some do. Increased brake travel and a lousy e-brake. If you can possibly score a 2001.5-2000 axle I'd go that route.
 
I had the EGR rear disk brakes on for about 110k yes they do work well with the exhaust brake, the emergency brake cable is truly major pain to get to hold, I ended up with cutting left front cable to tune of 7" long to make work somewhat.
 
Another option for increasing rear brake force is changing the wheel cylinders in the drums. Chevy had a larger bore cylinder on their Dana 80 for HD trucks. My local mechanic was familiar with the upgrade and it has been on my '99 for the last 3 yrs. I had EGR slotted rotors and carbon-kevlar pads on the front, they didn't last very long before the rotors warped and I went back to typical aftermarket OEM replacements. The truck did brake better during the short time I had it on the truck, but I only got around 8K miles before I had to change them.
Jeff
 
Hmm, I've been wondering about better brakes for my '96 3500. I've even considered selling it and buying something newer with better brakes for pulling our fifth wheel. If a guy was to go to a newer rear diff with factory disk brakes, what else needs to be done?
 
Another option for increasing rear brake force is changing the wheel cylinders in the drums. Chevy had a larger bore cylinder on their Dana 80 for HD trucks. My local mechanic was familiar with the upgrade and it has been on my '99 for the last 3 yrs. I had EGR slotted rotors and carbon-kevlar pads on the front, they didn't last very long before the rotors warped and I went back to typical aftermarket OEM replacements. The truck did brake better during the short time I had it on the truck, but I only got around 8K miles before I had to change them.
Jeff

This is good advice. The wheel cylinder upgrade is a common mod that has made many owners happy for a couple decades now. It's cheap, easy and a good way to significantly improve your 2nd gen brakes. I'd be trying this before doing the conversion and see if it's enough to suit your needs.
 
This is good advice. The wheel cylinder upgrade is a common mod that has made many owners happy for a couple decades now. It's cheap, easy and a good way to significantly improve your 2nd gen brakes. I'd be trying this before doing the conversion and see if it's enough to suit your needs.

I agree. I did the upgrade on my 97 and never considered a disc brake conversion after that. IIRC, the "mod" is under $20 and makes a huge difference.
 
Have about 80k on my 1998.5 auto and I'm very happy with it esp when towing. It's more balanced between fronts and rears now and no more crawling under the truck every other month to adjust brake shoes. Yes the ebrake is compromised and a pain to get adjusted correctly. I used some cable clamps to shorten the cable instead of cutting. It holds on mildly sloped ground. One of the better mods I've done and one I'd do again in a heartbeat. There have been a couple of emergency stops while towing that might not have turned out as good as they did.
 
I put 17" wheels on, 3rd generation rotars, pads and calipers....works better....I think....but still isn't fantastic...almost feels like the master cylinder isn't sufficient....and it's been replaced..
 
I purchased and installed a rear wheel drum to disk conversion sometime ago and don't quite remember from which company I purchased. That said, the kit was well made and install was fairly simple with the following exceptions: I had to weld tabs (provided in the kit) to the axle tubes for the brake hose to calipers as well as weld tabs (also provided in the kit) for the e-brake cables. I too had to shorten the e-brake cables by about 7" and purchase some cinch blocks as cable stops for the e-brake. The hoses are from a 3rd gen 1500 (I'm pretty sure) front end with 4X4 and calipers are from a 74-76 (I think on the year, but could be off 1 or 2) Caddy Eldorado, because I wanted the e-brake ability. The e-brake basically clamps the pads to the rotor... They really don't work that well and even after playing with the adjustment of the cable to get them to work they only seem to work decently for a few months...

If I had to do it over again I'd try to source a kit, or from a donor 01.5 truck, that provided internal shoes for e-brake. MHO. However, the disks in the rear do provide a better balance braking and when the time comes to change the pads I won't have to fight with all the springs and other B/S involved with drum brakes...
 
I went from a 99 with drum brakes to a 2001 with 4 wheel disc brakes to the 3rd gen upgrade on the 2001, Every step was a huge improvement over the last. Obviously the Parking brake in the hat of the rotor, so I have no answer there. If there is a way for you to get the updated 2001 up front brakes on the truck as well, by all means do it.
 
Update on the "Blackbirds Custom Trucks" drum to disk conversion kit for my 99. No offense to Blackbirds intended here, as I understand from cruising the Cadillac Eldorado forums, the 76-78 Eldo rear calipers are what many outfits are using for truck drum to disk conversions "emphasis" here is when the buyer specifies "must have e-brake". If you don't need e-brake they use a different caliper in the kit.

To the point: whoever the guy was that designed these POS eldo rear "integrated e-brake" calipers should have been tortured long and slow and allowed to die over many many weeks. That said, here's the deal. As I was installing rear wheelhouse flares I figured I'd take a look at the rear pads = good thing I did as they were pretty darned thin. More on the old pads later… I had to remove the e-brake cable to actuating arm and disconnect the fluid line to the calipers = both sides and remove totally from the diff. "Then" the fun began… Of course the pistons had to be moved back into the caliper = no you can't just take a C-clamp and press then in (I tried) as they "turn into" the caliper. I could go on but will just say the end result after finally getting the pistons moved into the caliper and the lever for the e-brake set on the "off-stop" and have enough room for the new pads to fit over the rotor netted me a low pedal and e-brakes that don't work !@#$!!! I power bled (psi tank connected to the master cylinder @ 15psi) the rear calipers, of course pass side first then driver side. I cleared all the air until clear fluid was present in the clear hose attached to the bleed screw and "then" purged an extra 2 cups per side as I tapped the piston area on the caliper with my trusty rubber hammer to help purge and lingering bubbles from the caliper/piston. Like I said end result low brake pedal, long travel till all brakes catch, meaning about 1.5" below the go pedal. The blasted thing acts like there's air in the system = if you push the brake pedal down till they grab, let off and hit again when you come to a stop the brake pedal is even with the go pedal. I prefer a firm and very short travel on my brakes, call me silly… Anyhow, after reading the caddy eldo forms I found that even back in the day these calipers were nightmares to the service Techs who often, replaced the whole caliper with loaded pads, versus screwing around trying to adjust this and that on the old calipers to make sure the e-brake worked. Rant, at least on these POS calipers, complete. For my next rant… remember I mentioned the old pads? Here goes; the left outside top had about ⅜" of material while the bottom had about 1/16" and the inside pad was exact opposite, you guessed it right side pads were the same. Since I used slide-glide when installing these (feel it's only fair to mention the install was back in 10/2011, so I'm happy I got 4 years out of the pads) I know they weren't sticky. Also, when I installed the adapter plates, I made sure mating surfaces to the axle tube end were free of rust and etc. So, I'm guessing the adapter plates are "not quite rite". Of course I sent Blackbirds an email a few days ago asking for help on these blasted calipers and mentioning the uneven pad wear, but I don't know if they're even in business anymore? I've not had a reply to my email and haven't tried to call yet, but when I searched for Blackbirds Custom Trucks the net found many negative and old information from other customers although not related to the conversion kit. So, my dillemma is convert back to drums, purchase loaded calipers, or try to screw with what I have?

As I mentioned in an earlier post: if you can find a stock Dodge with rear disk set up in a parts yard that might be the best course. In fact, although I'm out $700 (4 years ago BTW) I might just see if I can locate a donor…. Rants complete…for now #@$%!
 
I did the larger wheel cylinder mod. IMO it's OK, but far from ideal. I adjust the rear brakes regularly.
FWIW The height proportioning valve linkage on my truck was getting to the fubar (rust, wear ), so I removed the tie rod swivel joint thing from the axle housing and wire tied it into the "maximum braking" position.
Still no real joy.
I also replaced the rear shoes and kits while I was down there being I had 130+ K miles on them.
They were a full 50% work at the most.
 
Update on Blackbirds Custom Trucks: Tried to call 509-534-5219, rang and then that god awful tone that lets you know there's a message coming, which was; the number you dialed is no longer in service please check the number and dial again… So after trying to locate a phone number based on address I was out of luck = nada, zip! I'm guessing they fell on hard times and are no longer in the biz… back to the drawing board. Maybe there's something somewhere that'll help me figure out these blasted 76-78 Eldo calipers...
 
OK hopefully the last post on this. If below works I'll post update. BTW: I found this info on one of the "other" forums.

Tip # 1:
E-brake lever aprx 1" travel to lock rotor, more travel results in low spongy pedal.
trick: remove cable from caliper, move lever to lock rotor, while holding lever
insert screwdriver in piston groove holding piston against rotor, release e-brake
lever allowing to return to resting spot on caliper (don't let piston creep back in)
this is the automatic piston adj and should occur (1" e-brake arm to lock rotor).

Tip #2
Adjust Caliper Parking Brake:
GM rear caliper w/parking brake is self-adjusting when you use the parking brake.
As the pads wear it will click to the next stop, but they will not work if you don't use
the parking brake.
Rear Caliper Parking Brake Lever Adj:
Must be performed as part of caliper installation/replacement. Failure to do so
before you apply the hydraulic brakes will result in no parking brake, poss
premature wear or damage.
Adjust brake levers by pushing forward. Each time you push them they should
move off the stop less. To be properly adjusted they should only move off the
stop ⅜ - ½". If they will not adj place lever between rotor and the pad and putting
pressure on the piston. Now push the lever releasing pressure on the pad as the
caliper adjusts. These are the only two ways to adjust the park brake.
If the calipers won't adj you will have a low pedal and piston will retract too
far using up all hydraulic pedal travel to put the brakes on.
 
I found the GM wheel cylinders to be a huge improvement. I swapped my axle out for 02 disks and they were even better, if nothing else, for not having to adjust them. I would try the GM wheel cylinders first, and see how you like them.
 
I am glad I ran across this discussion. I just blew a rear wheel cylinder and am looking for a better option than the OEM cylinders. Does anyone happen to have a part # or GM model these cylinders are for? I need to get this immediately. I am a retired old man also a US Navy vet. So I need to try to do this repair myself. Thanks for any help you can give. I have a 1998 12 valve w/auto trans quad-cab 2 wheel drive. No mods have been done, truck is all stock as I am original owner.
 
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