Dissatisfied Ford owner

[GHinton]

I was approached today by a owner of Ford f-250 with 6. 0. He asked a lot of questions about my '03 2500, and then said his had been nothing but trouble since about 1800 miles. New injectors, computer reflashes, and leaking head gaskets. He said the truck ran fine empty, but he had experienced many problems with poor performance while towing. It had been in the shop over a dozen times, and now had only 5000 miles on it. He had been on Ford's rear end many times to either fix the truck or buy it back, and they can't fix it, and won't buy it back. Said he was going to go buy a Dodge HO next week, and be out $6000 for the experience of owning a Ford. He would rather keep the truck, but just doesn't know how much he stands to lose in the future. I felt sorry for the guy... .

 

[HEYBOSS]

Well it sucks to be in that position doesn't matter if it's a Ford or any other make. When someone dishes out a lot of cash for a new car or truck and has problems right of the back it's tough. I've purchased brand new vehicle of the lot from a dealer I worked at and it was a lemon, I then realized and sympathized when a customer came in with new vehicle complaints and problems.



Some times we don't do our home work when making major purchases and can really bite us back as in the case with this Ford guy as most of us know or heard the 6. 0 having lots of problems but he would be better off taking the beating now and move on.

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

Oh yeah I agree freddo. It sometimes in a case like this to cut your losses and move forward. I was talkin to a guy that has a 6. 0 and he is on the fence about his as well (Reflashed , injectors , The same pajammy) and the worst thing to do to someone that came to mind is to hop on the bashing bandwagon.

Sure I was leaning on my bumper gloating on the inside but nothing can be more damaging to a person's decision than to hoot , hollar and gloat about your brand. (Heck our brand has major issues as well) Me ... I like the F brand and felt bad for him ..... especially being he had a rhino liner , winch setup , and custom two tone paint accents so he had $$$ into the truck as is. Now he is in a real pickle because of that.

 

[Evan A. Beck]

The worst thing about the 6L problems, is the truck its installed in is very nice... Big & comfortable. Makes it hard to just give up...

 

[HBarlow]

The problems Ford 6. 0 buyers are having sound like a good case for invoking the lemon laws of their state. I don't know if all states have such a law or how well it works but I saw one example a few years ago.



A friend of mine, a loyal Chevy buyer, bought a new big block Suburban in 1990 to pull his Airstream. He had repeated problems with it and carefully documented every dealer visit. When he grew tired of the dealer's and manufacturer's inability to fix the problems, he invoked the Texas Lemon Law. His case eventually went to arbitration and he won. Chevrolet bought his Suburban back and he bought a new 1993, same brand, same model. I don't remember the details now but he was compensated fairly and felt that he was treated right. He remains a loyal Chevrolet buyer.



Ford knows it has a huge quality control problem on its hands with the new 6. 0 engine. A friend sent me a paragraph quoted from a Ford publication recently where Ford addressed the concern. The publication was a retired Ford employee's newsletter if I remember correctly. With the problems so widely known I don't see how Ford could avoid buying back some of those trucks under lemon laws if buyers do their homework, carefully document their problems, and invoke their rights in a reasonable manner.



Harvey

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

Ive read of several buybacks. Of course Ford is really dragging their feet. Trying to keep the owners in the trucks. Some are bought back without too much trouble. Some you need anesthesia because its like pulling teeth. Ford knows they got a bad lot of em. Unfortunately the number of em manufactured ,before the problems with manufacturing were cured, is probably about 100,000 units. I believe they are on their 4th injector revision. They should of dumped the high pressure oil injectors years ago. Too sensitive to problems. Its going to be a major headache for Ford for years to come. This motor is so jacked up right out of the factory I bet fewer people mod it thus meaning more intact warranties. 325 and 555 would be satisfactory to me. I say less than half make it to 100k without a warranty issue. Thats gonna cost ford a mint. Its too bad they rushed it to the market because it may be the straw that broke the camels back. If those ford owners look long and hard at the competition they might not be ford owners much longer.

 

[HBarlow]

The situation at Ford is sad for everyone concerned ---- buyers, stockholders, employees, dealers, etc. Ford builds good trucks and other good products but somehow they dropped the ball in an expensive way on the new 6. 0 launch. Apparently the reign of CEO Jacques Nasser (is that the right name??) was a disaster for various reasons. His performance apparently caused Ford's board to replace him with a young Ford family member.



I hope Ford gets thing back on track. Having three strong truck manufacturers in the US market creates lively competition and we all benefit by the results.



I don't see myself ever having any interest in a V8 diesel for truck use though. I'm happy with my Cummins ISB, noise and all.



Harvey

 

[Barry]

Inside word is that Ford is in deep financial trouble. If it were not for the Ford name they would be toast.

 

[GHinton]

I talked to a friend of mine over the weekend who works in the Norfolk, VA, Ford plant (they only make F-150's) I asked him about the problems with the 6. 0, and related the above story to him, and all he could do was roll his eyes. Then he went on to tell me about the various ways that Ford is now cutting corners on the '04 F-150 A memorable one -a fiberglass fuel filler door that snaps onto a piece of plastic that snaps(?!) onto the body- which, by the way had a 60% failure rate in testing. Needless to say, he was not suprised at all about another failed 6. 0. Apparently they are the laughingstock of the Ford manufacturing community. Interestingly, he told me the word in the plant is that they are getting V-6 diesels in the 150's. I thought they had scrapped that program. By the way, even though Ford offers it's employees huge incentives to by Ford product, he just bought his second Chevy gasser since working there.

 

[JBlock]

Lemon Laws

It seems to me with dozen trips to the dealer, and these kind of problems Ford should be froce to take back these Lemons.



That what the Lemons Laws are for, "You and me the little guys. "



Maybe depends upon the state.

 

[Rosco]

I am a member over on a site dedicated to the landscaping industry and this one poor guy there bought a brand new F-350 and within 250 miles it was towed back to the dealer because of an EGR failure. Then another guy ordered a F-450 cab a chassis and on his maiden 2 hour drive home from the dealer the truck started running lousy so he turned around, brought it back to the dealer with 60 miles on it handed over the key's and stopped payment on his check (paid cash).



I thought Ford would have got this engine dilemma straightened out by now but it appears the nest is just starting to get stirred up.

 

[HBarlow]

A few months ago when I first began seeing the links from the TDR forum to Ford sites and reading the comments I thought the Ford 6. 0 problems were probably isolated and exaggerated. That does not seem to be the case any longer.



Ford seems to have very serious problems with this new engine. I wonder ... . can the problems be resolved by reengineering various components like injectors or ECMs that simply bolt on or is the design of the new engine fatally flawed?



Ford has probably signed contracts with Navistar committing Ford to payment of hundreds of millions of dollars. To try to back out of the contracts would probably put them in federal courts for years to come, bankrupt both companies, and leave Ford without an engine for their trucks at the same time.



I wonder how well Ford trucks are selling as knowledge of the problem spreads?



Harvey

 

[Pit Bull]

You know it's bad when the politically correct "Truck Trend Mag" has a article stating that there is a problem!!!

 

[HBarlow]

Pit Bull:



Yep, I noticed that too in the issue I received yesterday. Ford must be behind on a payment on their advertising in Truck Trend.



Harvey

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

From the limited available information. The problems are only on the ford branded powerstroke. The international vt365 is doing fine. I may be mistaken but this is the word on the web. Ford screwed it up. It was fine. I think in the war for hp they way overstepped their bounds. They changed the slated output after getting it ready for market. Granted it was only 10 lb ft but I bet it was a significant factor. Had to have more torque than the cummins you know.

 

[HBarlow]

Maybe Ford should have been satisfied with the standard Navistar engine and only increased horsepower and torque by simply changing the claimed numbers in their advertising copy as automobile manufacturers have historically done. Changing the numbers on the brochures and television ads won't stress any engine or driveline components and will be just as satisfying to the brand loyalists who believe whatever they are told.



Harvey

 

[FATCAT]

What Ford should of done is ...

... make the truck a little larger and stonger in the front end and go with the DT466 ... a proven diesel.



If that were the case, no one could touch Ford in the HD Pickup truck line.

 

[esdd]

My brother-in lay works at F's Kentucky truck plant in Louisville where the super-dutys are built. He says there are a lot of failures on the assembly line with the navistar engine. He said F*** is looking at installing a high hp version of the isb in allsuper-duties, it is an option in the medium duty class of F*** trucks now. As a side note F*** owns a good size chunk of Cummins stock. F*** was trying to buy controlling interest in the late 90's before the deal with navistar. Supposedly cummins has been trying to buy the stock back from F*** but they will not sell. I am told by someone in the offices at CEP that F*** wants to hold this stock as a leverage tool for a future contract in appx 2005. Of course all this is just hear-say. :--) :--)

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by esdd



As a side note Ford owns a good size chunk of Cummins stock. Ford was trying to buy controlling interest in the late 90's before the deal with navistar. Supposedly cummins has been trying to buy the stock back from Ford but they will not sell.

:-laf Sorry Ford does not own any of Cummins. I think your Brother-in-law is getting some bad information.

 

[esdd]

Brother -in -law works for Ford at LAP. Father in law Works for Cummins Columbus Engine Plant. I also am a Cummins stockholder, in their SEC Q-10 filings and notice of shareholders meeting and proxy notice there is a list of all major shareholders. Ford Motor Company is on the lists. All of this info is available on their website in the investor information, annual reports and SEC filings. You do the reading.