Do 50HP injectors just mean getting to max. EGT sooner when pulling?!?

[WalterJ]

Greetings;

Been running rougher these last 10 months, & city/highway mileage calc. is 15.8 today. Read some blogs re: 50HP injector replacements & an interesting opinion surfaced that made me ponder the logic of replacing OEM w/50HP injectors.

Is this all that the bigger nozzles really mean, when more pulling power is needed, the throttle position is "less" for the same power as OEM nozzles? ...and since EGT is commonly referred to as the engine's "limiting factor of performance", then [as devils advocate] what's the problem with keeping the "go" pedal further down?!?

This quandary represents a serious question I need to resolve by this Winter, in prep for Spring sojourn South. Thanks friends.

 

[Prairie Dog]

If your already getting close to max EGT then yes. But if you have a bit of margin left or you do something with timing, exhaust, etc, it can mean more usable power.

 

[promisedland]

You can get custom tuning and shorten the injection pulse so the egts dont get higher, rather lower with timing changes. One advantage with some 50~ hp injectors is the nozzles are flow balanced so they run smoother then OEM.
Luvin my BBIs!

 

[cerberusiam]

It would be 50 HP at maximum rpm because that is where HP is calculated, at partially throttle it would be some fraction. Depending on your tuner and how it handles timing you may not see much difference in the EGT's across the normal range.

The actual performance will depend a lot on which spray angle you get and how tight the spray patterns are in the nozzles. HP and EGT's will be impacted more by shape and consistency of the nozzle orifices that any size differences, usually to the negative if they are not consistent and pretty exact.

Now you have to decide what you want to do for spray pattern, 143 or 126, and what your tuner can do for you. The 143 pattern seems to have less smoke and better performance but it will require a tuner capable of handling timing and fueling changes. A close to stock pattern will not necessarily need changes but will definitely help efficiency and performance.

 

[WalterJ]

It would be 50 HP at maximum rpm because that is where HP is calculated, at partially throttle it would be some fraction. Depending on your tuner and how it handles timing you may not see much difference in the EGT's across the normal range.

The actual performance will depend a lot on which spray angle you get and how tight the spray patterns are in the nozzles. HP and EGT's will be impacted more by shape and consistency of the nozzle orifices that any size differences, usually to the negative if they are not consistent and pretty exact.

Now you have to decide what you want to do for spray pattern, 143 or 126, and what your tuner can do for you. The 143 pattern seems to have less smoke and better performance but it will require a tuner capable of handling timing and fueling changes. A close to stock pattern will not necessarily need changes but will definitely help efficiency and performance.

Thank you for another great detailed, usable advice. The BMS 50HP units are advertised as 128 degree pattern & I'm 'committed' to using my [recently replaced] Banks Economind tuner. At full throttle occasions, I barely exceeded 1250 degrees.

 

[KATOOM]

To be as basic as I can, yes you'll gain more "bang for the buck" with larger injectors. Therefore fuel mileage will slightly increase as power is increased based on the same throttle input per the load. Although as the injectors get much larger than OEM, the relative fueling/HP value equals out and fuel mileage will begin to decrease simply because the of level of fueling. Generally people experience an increase in fuel mileage up to 75 hp injectors where then anything larger and fuel mileage begins to drop.

My RV275's allowed more towing power (about 40 hp) and gave a slight boost in fuel mileage too but kept EGT's more stable as well. You just have to be careful what injectors you get as some brands are more prone to running dirty and less efficient.

 

[cerberusiam]

The BMS 50HP units are advertised as 128 degree pattern & I'm 'committed' to using my [recently replaced] Banks Economind tuner.

You might see the EGT's rise faster but it should not be drastic.

Just as an FYI on these injectors there is a LOT if variance in the problems. Lot of people reporting smoke and issues with these 128 pattern injectors. No indication if it is the tips or injector setup or the install but several are reporting excess white and black smoke. No idea if it is the source or what, but, it tends to call into question whether they are worth the risk.

I would do the 143's before the 128's at this point, or, with BBI having the Stage .5's available and their adherence to QC and build, I personally would pay the extra for them. There is nothing more frustrating than spending most of $3000 to have issues.

 

[Motorhead]

You don't say whether you have a stock turbo or not. I am on my first trip with the rebuilt 5.9 Holset that Tom and Jay at Turbo Re-Source modified with the stock 6.7 turbine on the exhaust side. MAN...What a difference in the way the truck runs, LOW EGT's towing 9000 pound fifth wheel. It responds well at low RPM with good boost. I am amazed at how much better my truck runs. BBI's .5 might be in my future.

 

[WalterJ]

You can get custom tuning and shorten the injection pulse so the egts dont get higher, rather lower with timing changes. One advantage with some 50~ hp injectors is the nozzles are flow balanced so they run smoother then OEM.
Luvin my BBIs!

Thanks for sharing.

You've got FTE resonators? Is that in place of your "test pipe"? Worth the effort to reduce "drone"?

 

[promisedland]

Thanks for sharing.

You've got FTE resonators? Is that in place of your "test pipe"? Worth the effort to reduce "drone"?

I have my FTE 30'' res. in the CAT location, really works to reduce the mid range [rpms] drone that i had when i junked my OEM muff & replaced it with a 24'' Flo Pro straight through muff.
If you like noise more then i do, just use the FTE by itself. Better manners then full straight pipe.

 

[MarkEkberg]

If/When I tow it is stupid heavy, so I just accept the fact that I am going to get passed by everything and I take the smarty out of it so I don't break things.

 

[WalterJ]

276,870 on my OEM injectors. Hearing "metalic/clanking" sounds when loading engine. Mileage is down to 15.8 MPG highway on two recent Summer 400+ mile runs. No discernible smoke, white nor black. Hope this helps whatever you're interested in.

Just ordered "BMS 50/60HP" injectors, late model [steel] crossover tubes & a fuel pressure regulator.

Shop work is scheduled for 10/19/2016. From what I've read here, I'm not concerned about over stressing my TC or transmission. We don't race uphill with the 5th wheel anyway!

 

[WalterJ]

Injectors P/N 505BMS35 were installed 10/19/2016 @ 277,024 miles. These are "BMS" 50/60HP rated, and are spec'd as having 126deg spray angle, which is close enough to OEM angle to hopefully work well for a long time. Talked with Todd from TCDiesel who reports these are NOT officially new Bosch injectors, but modified Bosch nozzles. Quite a confusing situation.

Anyway, thru that complicated discussion of licensing, etc. he told me to keep track of OA (oil analysis) results to look for increases in; Fe & Al for signs of piston/ring wear due to non OEM spray angle. He said the BMS vs OEM angles (126 vs 124 I forget) are close enough that I shouldn't worry, but keep track of the OA's. I will. Time to change oil/filter to represent the new injectors. Sorta like "Trust in the Lord, but tie up your horse cowboy".

Acceleration (Banks Level 6) is noticeably stronger. 70mph - 90mph felt strongly in my back. Anxious to chk MPG. It was 15.8 city/highway for 350/400 mile runs.

A few years ago (1300 miles away of course), #4 HP fuel line sprung a leak. Although just a 'spray', it doused the engine compartment quite nicely. (Gasoline would have blow us up!).
I asked that "Country" replace #5 & #6 lines at this time, especially since they were tucked away near firewall. (no additional labor, eh) We found both lines were corroded within the plastic vibration support bracket insert!


He said road/salt spray seems to find its way in these rear areas, but 1st time seeing these effects on the HP fuel lines! Now it's something he can inspect for future customers.

Seeing the effects on the tubing nuts should have been a clue, maybe? Too late we learn so much!

 

[KATOOM]

Too late we learn so much!

Sooooo true.....

 

[WalterJ]

You might see the EGT's rise faster but it should not be drastic.

Just as an FYI on these injectors there is a LOT if variance in the problems. Lot of people reporting smoke and issues with these 128 pattern injectors. No indication if it is the tips or injector setup or the install but several are reporting excess white and black smoke. No idea if it is the source or what, but, it tends to call into question whether they are worth the risk.

I would do the 143's before the 128's at this point, or, with BBI having the Stage .5's available and their adherence to QC and build, I personally would pay the extra for them. There is nothing more frustrating than spending most of $3000 to have issues.

So how are your BMS 50/60 injectors holding up? 'Bout how many miles on them? Is your oil analysis helpful re BMS nozzle quality?

 

[cerberusiam]

The BMS50's I have are perfect. They are the production run injectors at 143 degrees so not quite the same as the 126's. I ran them for 40k with excellent results, better power, better mpg, etc. When I bought the BBI's moved them to my sons truck after having them balanced, huge difference on my sons truck going from a set of remans Bosch to the balanced 50's. Much quieter, smoother, etc. If you have oil analysis form before and you start taking them now it should give you some useful information. I have spot checked the oil a couple times over the 260k with the OE and BMS injectors and it was always excellent. I am due to check it again with the BBI's to see if anything changed drastically.