Do I need a CDL????

[GAmes]

Please tell me how a truck with a 10,000 GVWR can be the same as one with a GVWR of 11,400.

 

[Dan_69GTX]

Please tell me how a truck with a 10,000 GVWR can be the same as one with a GVWR of 11,400.

Peel the sticker off of one and put it on the other!

 

[SpaceBuckaroo]

Please tell me how a truck with a 10,000 GVWR can be the same as one with a GVWR of 11,400.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1152711-10000-gvrw-package-what-does-it-mean.html

 

[GAmes]

Just another forum full of speculation and guesses. Have you inquired at an actual Ford dealership or found a Ford website that explains the different packages? The Ram website goes into great detail of what is included in each package.

 

[SpaceBuckaroo]

Here is another link:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1492112-what-does-10-000-gvwr-packages-mean.html

Quote from one writer: "No-cost option code 68 D reduces the GVWR to 9,900 lbs. on an F250 and to 10,000 lbs. on an F350 SRW. It's paper reduction that helps reduce registration costs in some jurisdictions ("under 10,000 lbs." or "not over 10,000 lbs."); there are no physical changes to the trucks.

This option is not available on the F350 DRW. And, don't confuse GVWR and GCWR."

 

[GAmes]

Believe what you want. The Ford website offers the SRW 3500 with either a 10,000 GVWR "package" or an 11,400 GVWR "package". So if you believe the "package" is nothing more than a sticker on the doorjamb have at it. Me, I'd want more proof than a WAG from a forum member who has no face and no credentials.

 

[SpaceBuckaroo]

Re-rating GVWR: Why and How it's Done

When Are Driver Logbooks Required?
Beattie and Chew noted their greatest involvement comes with vehicles rated at 10,000 lbs. and under. With heavy and medium trucks, VSOs are now set up to accommodate the special GVW ratings. One requirement for vehicles over 10,000 GVW is that the drivers maintain comprehensive logbooks.

So, according to Chew, "The customer might say 'I'm willing to give up the payload capacity. I really don't need it. I want you to de-rate the vehicle. I'm happy to have all the components that allow me to have that much capacity, but I want a vehicle that's rated at 10,000 lbs. or less, so I can avoid maintaining logbooks and some of the other markings that must be on the vehicle.' "

He added the logbook and vehicle marking issues are the main reasons, over the past few years, the VSO group has been asked to do a 10,000 lb. de-rate from a higher GVWR — either 11,500 or 10,700 lbs.

https://www.worktruckonline.com/145897/re-rating-gvwr-why-and-how-its-done

 

[SpaceBuckaroo]

I copied the above text and pasted it in. Sorry about the large font.

I would prefer to have an F150, but the F150 payload capacity will not carry the camper. I could easily make some upgrades, but that will not increase the official GVWR, and my insurance won't approve carrying an heavy camper no matter what improvements I make.

 

[GAmes]

I read the whole thing and there is not one hint that the suspension and brakes stay the same when a vehicle is de-rated.

 

[SpaceBuckaroo]

The vehicle is already built.


"The customer might say 'I'm willing to give up the payload capacity. I really don't need it. I want you to de-rate the vehicle. I'm happy to have all the components that allow me to have that much capacity, but I want a vehicle that's rated at 10,000 lbs. or less, so I can avoid maintaining logbooks and some of the other markings that must be on the vehicle.' "

 

[GAmes]

The payload capacity is what the vehicle is capable of so it stands to reason that de-rating a truck means putting lower weight rated parts on it.

"It is sometimes easier to up-rate than to de-rate a vehicle because the requirements may be lower," said Chew.

What could be simpler than sticking a new decal on a door post? Once again, you are not looking at an official Ford site, and apparently not talked to a Ford dealer.

 

[bcbender]

Reviving this old thread as I also have some questions?

From the FMCSA Web E-CFR documents:

As I read it, I wonder do our 3500 trucks fall under the Class A requirement?
I have several trailers, most dont have GVWR tags anymore on them, I am not commercial, but I ordered a 15k dump trailer to do a remodel of my home. I stumbled on these researching for our company as we are acquiring a new RAM for work and wanted to confirm that we DO NOT need a CMV / CDL.

From what I've read, It appears that If I buy a RAM 2500 with the 10000lb GVWR we can pull all our work trailers (none over 10000lbs) and not be commercial but If I pull my new dump trailer GVWR 15000lbs,. I need a CDL? My 2020 Ram 3500 SRW has a GVWR of 12350. I have a 25' gooseneck which has a GVWR of 12000lbs so I assume that is ok since the total is 24350lbs? The idiocracy of the way this appears to me is if I have a 2500 with 10k GVWR (all new RAM 2500s are that way) then with the 15K trailer I'm still under 26001, but with the proper truck I'm over? I never gave this any thought ever even when I bought my GN and originally I thought it was a 14k (well it is now since I upgraded the 6k axles to 7k) but it seems to be silly to me.

I'm sure some of you all have been there done that so what do you all do.. I am not getting or going through the rigmarole of getting a CDL to pull my trailers around (same as I have done for over 30yrs).. I also am not going to change to a 12k or 10k dump and spend the same amount of money for less cargo space, I want the 7x14 to haul my tractor. I was considering if I could have the trailer de-rated to 12 or 13k to keep the total under 26k or just ride.....

 

[bcbender]

I guess also what puzzles me is if the whole 26001 "Combined" GVWR is based on any safety or training concerns, then why are RVs not complicit? So you can take a DRW Ram 3500 and a 26k Toy Hauler at a total vehicle length equal to a tractor trailer combo and be at or over 40k combined with no commercial licensing required, but hook a small empty equipment trailer on a Ram 3500 and then suddenly now you are CDL?

 

[KPotter]

Make your trips on the weekends and late at night. most scales are closed.

 

[GAmes]

One of the reasons I stuck with my '97 while hauling trailers is it's 10,500 lb GVWR. I could hook up to trailers up to 15,500 and not need a CDL-A. So the answer to your question is yes. If your GCWR exceeds 26,000 you need a class A drivers license. If you are using it commercially you need a CDL-A. Some states exempt RVs but many require a class A for the big ones. TX and PA have non-commercial class A drivers licenses but a lot of states require a CDL-A even though the rigs are not "commercial". CA has a requirement for a CDL-A for all non RV trailers over 10,000 GVWR regardless of the GVWR of the tow vehicle and their non-commercial class A is for RVs over 15,000 GVWR, again regardless of the tow vehicle. Bottom line is check with your state's DMV. My info came from official state DMV sites but do your own research. The forums are not the correct place to get legal advice.

As to "de-rating" your existing trailer, I once was dispatched to picked up a stack of flatbed trailers. When I got there the bottom one had a GVWR of 20,000 pounds. I explained to the guy in charge I couldn't take the load because I didn't have a CDL. He said no problem and ripped the VIN sticker off (it was glued to the frame). A few minutes later he came out of his office with two new VIN stickers. One was for 15,500 GVWR which he applied to the frame, the other was 20,000 GVWR which he handed to me. At the destination I ripped the 15,500 GVWR sticker off and applied the 20,000 GVWR sticker. It isn't out of the realm of possibility that you could have a new VIN tag produced by the trailer's manufacturer.

 

[GAmes]

Make your trips on the weekends and late at night. most scales are closed.

Scales are not the only places that you could be checked for compliance. Several of my level one inspections occurred on the sides of the highway. I recall one instance in NV that the scales were closed and I was pulled over about 5 miles past it for an inspection. As cars and trucks zoomed by doing 70 I remarked to the officer that it would have been a lot safer if she had just opened the scales. She agreed, but took the time to do the inspection anyway.

 

[bcbender]

Yeah.. Thanks for the confirmation, that was what I was interpreting it at as well, Like I said its crazy to me that I can tow 8 tons with a short bed 2500 but not a LB 3500 that is clearly more capable.....I will call the trailer mfg and inquire about de-rating the 7x14 to 13k.. That'll put me at 25350, here in NC they don't require road weighted tags on the power unit for RV trailers only every other trailer so I pay for road tax on my gooseneck but not my 5er which is a whole lot bigger and heavier..

 

[bcbender]

Make your trips on the weekends and late at night. most scales are closed.

My dump is for personal use so not even going on the highways.. Also my truck just looks like any other private vehicle, no business or commercial use noted, just trying to keep things as legit as possible, here where I live in NC all sorts of shady things go down the road but I'd be the one made an example of the way my luck goes some times.

 

[GAmes]

Like I said its crazy to me that I can tow 8 tons with a short bed 2500 but not a LB 3500 that is clearly more capable....

Keep in mind that when those rules were written there wasn't a single person who could predict that a class 3 truck would be rated to tow 37,000 lbs. One of these days the enforcers of drivers license requirements are going to crack down on late model duellies pulling large RVs and start issuing tickets.

 

[slowmover]

Reviving this old thread as I also have some questions?

From the FMCSA Web E-CFR documents:
View attachment 137481



As I read it, I wonder do our 3500 trucks fall under the Class A requirement?
I have several trailers, most dont have GVWR tags anymore on them, I am not commercial, but I ordered a 15k dump trailer to do a remodel of my home. I stumbled on these researching for our company as we are acquiring a new RAM for work and wanted to confirm that we DO NOT need a CMV / CDL.

From what I've read, It appears that If I buy a RAM 2500 with the 10000lb GVWR we can pull all our work trailers (none over 10000lbs) and not be commercial but If I pull my new dump trailer GVWR 15000lbs,. I need a CDL? My 2020 Ram 3500 SRW has a GVWR of 12350. I have a 25' gooseneck which has a GVWR of 12000lbs so I assume that is ok since the total is 24350lbs? The idiocracy of the way this appears to me is if I have a 2500 with 10k GVWR (all new RAM 2500s are that way) then with the 15K trailer I'm still under 26001, but with the proper truck I'm over? I never gave this any thought ever even when I bought my GN and originally I thought it was a 14k (well it is now since I upgraded the 6k axles to 7k) but it seems to be silly to me.

I'm sure some of you all have been there done that so what do you all do.. I am not getting or going through the rigmarole of getting a CDL to pull my trailers around (same as I have done for over 30yrs).. I also am not going to change to a 12k or 10k dump and spend the same amount of money for less cargo space, I want the 7x14 to haul my tractor. I was considering if I could have the trailer de-rated to 12 or 13k to keep the total under 26k or just ride.....

DOT in every state has had their commercial enforcement officers after this nationwide about ten years. Good thing.

Poor maintenance and repairs to vehicles, etc, becomes a problem the heavier they get. For everyone on the road.

You act like acquiring a CDL is difficult. It isn’t. It’s a demonstration of basic competence at a level beyond the norm. Should be a piece of cake for you and your thirty years of “experience”.

.