Do I need AIR BAGS?

[opiefire]

I have purchased a fifth wheel, but I have not picked it up yet. I will be traveling 1500 miles one way to get it. I have a 03 2500. I am going to be about 300 lbs over my pin weight. Do you think my truck will sag in the rear from being over weight when hooked up to the fifth wheel? I have been looking at a set of ride rite air bags, and I am debating on installing them.

 

[The Sequel]

I was over the GVW of my truck by 500-1000 pounds and the rear didn't sag a bit.

 

[macdaddy]

DM

Sure you don't need air bags, either did I. I went ahead and installed Firestone Ride Rites anyway. If anything it will allow you add more weight in the future should the need arise and allow proper headlamp alignment aswell as give your rig good handling characteristics. My . 02 worth.



Mac

 

[RJOL]

If you are "TRULY" just 300lbs over, you will probably have no problem, and probably don't need to add air bags... . However, in the "real world" you may be a lot more then 300lbs over after the trailer and truck are fully loaded. If your new 5th wheel is approaching 30' and especially if it has a front slide out, I can almost guarantee that you will be "way over" your GVW and rear axle weight. Remember... Trailer manufacturers are "very optimistic" when they telling you the empty weight and pin weight of the trailer. A lot of TDR members tow big loads with 2500's, but most of those who do are overloaded...

 

[jtisdale]

What is your pin set?

 

[Turbo Thom]

I really don't know if the ford and Dodge is close in capacity, but I just installed an Air Lift kit on an 05 F250, because his fiver set it down 3 inches. That problem went away. It does make it a lot more stable.



. . Preston. .

 

[opiefire]

What is your pin set?

I am new to the fifth wheel lingo, but I'll take a guess at what I think your asking. If the "pin set" is the pin weight of the trailer then it is 2190 lbs. This is listed on the specifications sheet as "hitch dry weight". Next to this it says in small print "all dry weights are based on the standard model and do not include optional features or equipment. All weights given are approximate. "



As RJOL says "Remember... Trailer manufacturers are "very optimistic" when telling you the empty weight and pin weight of the trailer. "



I think I'll put the Air Bags on for piece of mind. I appreciate all the input, and when I get everything hooked up I'll let everyone know what the "real" weights are for my new fifth wheel! Thanks again. David

 

[RJOL]

... I think I'll put the Air Bags on for piece of mind. I appreciate all the input, and when I get everything hooked up I'll let everyone know what the "real" weights are for my new fifth wheel! Thanks again. David

David... I know this is not exactly on the topic of your original thread, but I'd like to give you my thought process on this.



My 2001 was a 4X4 quad cab long bed. It came with the dana 80 (basically the same as the 1 ton axle). My fifth wheel pin weight was around 2300lbs (empty). When fully loaded with people, diesel (with aux tank), gear and supplies I knew I was overweight on the rear axle. I had no doubt in my mind that the 2500 could tow the load and carry the extra weight on the rear axle. What did it for me was the load capability of the rear tires. I had load range E tires with a load rating of 3414lbs each. The rear axle weighed about 4000lbs loaded, without the trailer. When the trailer was added, it went up to around 6700-7000lbs. When I took a look at the load rating of the "TIRES" I could see that I was close to, if not over, the limit. That's why I sold the 2001 and have a 3500 dually on order. I just didn't want to take the chance of a tire failure, while cruising down the freeway, with a 11K+ 5th wheel attached.



You can add air bags, stiffen the suspension, or other remedies, but you can't overcome the limitations of the tires. About the only option would be to go to a bigger tire (rickson, etc). Even with that setup, you could still have a tire failure due to defect, or road hazards. The safety of the family, and others around me was more important to me...

 

[opiefire]

David... I know this is not exactly on the topic of your original thread, but I'd like to give you my thought process on this.



My 2001 was a 4X4 quad cab long bed. It came with the dana 80 (basically the same as the 1 ton axle). My fifth wheel pin weight was around 2300lbs (empty). When fully loaded with people, diesel (with aux tank), gear and supplies I knew I was overweight on the rear axle. I had no doubt in my mind that the 2500 could tow the load and carry the extra weight on the rear axle. What did it for me was the load capability of the rear tires. I had load range E tires with a load rating of 3414lbs each. The rear axle weighed about 4000lbs loaded, without the trailer. When the trailer was added, it went up to around 6700-7000lbs. When I took a look at the load rating of the "TIRES" I could see that I was close to, if not over, the limit. That's why I sold the 2001 and have a 3500 dually on order. I just didn't want to take the chance of a tire failure, while cruising down the freeway, with a 11K+ 5th wheel attached.



You can add air bags, stiffen the suspension, or other remedies, but you can't overcome the limitations of the tires. About the only option would be to go to a bigger tire (rickson, etc). Even with that setup, you could still have a tire failure due to defect, or road hazards. The safety of the family, and others around me was more important to me...

Have you ever weighed the rear axle by itself? I was curious how much weight is excerted on only the rear tires with the stock truck, zero add-ons. I will try to find a local scale, and weigh my rear axle before and after all my add on equiptment.

 

[RJOL]

David... The last time I went across the scales was with both axles, tank of gas, and me in the truck. The weight was 7600lbs total. I have a 33 gal aux tank, in the bed, but I don't think it was full. I did some interpolating to get the approximate weight of the rear axle. No matter how I figured it, I was close, if not over, the load rating of my rear tires.

 

[CLAYTON]

Just throw on some air bagsl... the install is easy and you'll enjoy the extra stability. Total install time for me (never having installed them before) was 45 mins. Your truck is going to sag pretty good with that weight. Plus you won't have to deal with all the people flashing their brights at you cause your saggin. JMO

 

[jtisdale]

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I was wondering where the hitch point was in relation to the rear axle, over top, or ahead. Of course, it goes without saying the farther ahead the pin set, (although marginal) the more weight you put on both axles, not just the rear.



I found a couple of really good posts on air bags, I'll dig them up and repost.



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92063&highlight=air+bags





https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106924&highlight=air+bags





A great post by y-knot in the second link... (I hope he doesnt mind)



Of-coarse you can use a portable air compressor to fill the bags. Only thing is you will miss out on the best reason to own air bags, they are infinitely adjustable. While going down the road, you can adjust the pressures to suit the environment. Roads a mess, and filled with potholes, just add or subtract a little air, depending on what you were running at the time. This is the reason I have run airbags for over thirty years. They are great, and allow the vehicle to adapt to the present environment. Running without an on-board pressurized air system would be like as satisfying as a Dodge without a Cummins. Sure you could still get there, just wouldn't be any fun. I got hooked on air adjustable ride control systems way back in college. I did several experiments with air systems and even applied for several patents of various ride enhancements. What I have found, is that by increasing the the capacity of the system, the bags and supportive lines, you can very much increase the ride quality. With a stock air bag system, two bags and 15' of 5/32" line, every time the suspension travels to accommodate a bump in the rode, the system pressure spikes. If you run say 50psi as a normal pressure, when the suspension Encounters a obstacle it travels over that obstacle, which results in the rear end housing traveling up and down. For simplicity, say the rear end traveled 3" which made the air bags decrease in their normal length by three inches. The pressure inside the two air bags and the small amount of line, is dramatical increased in a very short amount of time. That 50 psi of normal pressure, shoots to say 75-85 psi in an instant, then settles back down to 50psi. This spiking causes much more of the encounter, the bump, to be transmitted to the cabin of the truck. To smooth things out, and to achieve a truly velvet like ride, some sort of a buffer needs to be installed in the system. In stock, out of the box condition, there is nothing but line and bags. I like to install a separate air tank into the system, this tank is connected in-line with the bags and will always be at the same pressure as the bags. Now when that same bump is hit, and the suspension travels it's 3 inches, the pressure spike is much,much lower. The actual spike will be determined by the size of the air tank, but it does not take much to make a very noticeable improvement. Even a small tank, one about 1/4 gallon will lower the spike pressure enough to make the difference. Now the spike pressure rises from 50psi to only 55. There are way to many variables to be precise in this example, but you can see that by adding the extra volume to the system, it become much better at manging the system pressure while experiencing suspension travel.

This isn't rocket science by no means, just simple pressure vs volume differentials. I have a air compressor (QuickAir II) that pressurizes a storage tank. This function is automatically controlled by the use of some simple pressure switches, air compressor goes on at 80psi, and shuts off at 125psi. Mounted to one of the threaded boss's on the tank is a 12V solenoid, this is controlled by a switch in the cab that when energized it opens a valve on the main storage tank and fills the air bag pressurized system. In this system there are two bags, lines and a small tank. Both the main tank and system tank pressures are monitored in the cab, the ride can be varied to conditions with a simple push of a button. The result is a very nice ride, It seems the perfect pressure is the amount of air it takes to remove most of the trucks weight from the springs. This will change with load, but you will over some time, figure out what works best for you and your truck. That ability to change air pressure while on the go is the true beauty of air bags.

 

[BigMike]

My rear axle weight is only 3050# empty. Takes a lot of added weight to exceed E load tire ratings. I put air bags on my truck, only because I didn't have overload springs. If you have those, you should be fine. If not, I'd add air bags. It's really nice to have the flexibility to adjust pressure to fit your load. Worth the cost.

 

[crobertson1]

I have purchased a fifth wheel, but I have not picked it up yet. I will be traveling 1500 miles one way to get it. I have a 03 2500. I am going to be about 300 lbs over my pin weight. Do you think my truck will sag in the rear from being over weight when hooked up to the fifth wheel? I have been looking at a set of ride rite air bags, and I am debating on installing them.

You probably don't need airbags, but they sure are nice to have! Check out my reader's rigs for pictures of the bags, the compressor, and the Dual Air Command II. It really is a handy setup.

 

[opiefire]

Just a quick update to everyone. I purchased the ride-rite air bag set a couple of days ago. I just bought the basic set without the air compressor. Does anyone have any suggestions or tips on the install? I have read the directions, and it looks like it should be a fairly easy job to install them. Thanks again for all the input everyone has given me. I really appreciate your help. David

 

[Beast2B]

Quite a simple install, I also have the basic kit with manual Schrader valves in the rear bumper. I like y-knot's idea. I've been planning to change to a single fill point since I only use the air when towing. If I add in a small tank I'll be set. Personally, I haven't felt the need for compressors, valves and switches to automate everything but it would be more convenient