Do you use a fuel additive ('03s only)

[rbattelle]

I didn't think you needed additives with these new engines?

I think "need" is a very subjective term when it comes to fuel additives (and oil brands and transmission mods and gauges and tires and grease and differential lubes and... )

 

[PBerry]

I run TK7 diesel fuel booster which only uses 1 oz. per 6 gallon.

 

[jimnance]

Me too. At 100K I chicken out and had the lift pump replaced as a precaution. I've rarely used additives, but never buy fuel at truck stops. It seems that some truck stop owners are buying bunker fuel on the cheap and adding it to the tank. We've seen the diesel so dirty coming out of the nozzle we knew we'd be changing filters for a while on the truck. I've probably just been lucky not to have gotten a contaminated load.



However, I'm planning to begin regularly using a good fuel conditioner now that ULSD is being phased in.

 

[jimnance]

You know, now that I think about it my '99 makes a lot more black smoke now than long ago when the Edge went in. I'm now wondering if it's dirty injectors. When I stomp on it now you'd think I had a comp installed and big injectors!



I wonder if I need to pull the injectors or if a strong additive can help clean them up?

 

[LightmanE300]

I'm not sure if it's doable with your particular fuel system, but there is an injector cleaner called Diesel Purge that really works well. You have to run both the fuel feed line and return line out of a container, basically running the engine on the diesel purge for a few minutes. Really works wonders on dirty injectors, much more than simply dumping additives in the fuel. If the purge is too much hassle or not feasible, I'd just run the cleanup dose of redline for a few tanks and see if it helps.

 

[JARichard]

Hahaha

I use Howe's Meen Kleener!! I must be an idiot. If i run out and NO Howe's can be found I use the PS silver bottle. Which on average gives me 1. 2 mpg better than nothing. Soooo, I must be very stupid.

 

[LightmanE300]

I use Howe's Meen Kleener!! I must be an idiot. If i run out and NO Howe's can be found I use the PS silver bottle. Which on average gives me 1. 2 mpg better than nothing. Soooo, I must be very stupid.

:-laf Now that was funny. PS silver doesn't address water in any way - so you're not hurting anything. Not sure about howe's.

 

[Buffalo]

Mr. LightmanE300,

 

[Buffalo]

Mr. LightmanE300,



Sorry about the previous reply. The computer is acting-up and I don't know what happened.



First of all, Thank You and others posting here for all the info. regarding fuel conditioners. Great thread!



I have two Dodges, '91. 5 & '03 and, my buddies have Duramaxes. We've been concerned about this issue for awhile, now. Excessive water in the fuel doesn't seem to be as much of a problem where we live,(Phoenix, AZ. , the desert). Never had my "water in fuel" light come on in any of my trucks. The "lubricity" issue, seems to be more of a concern, to us. Taking care of the excess water is a good thing, also.



In no way am I trying to challenge Your opinion regarding "emulsifying vs. demulsifying", I'm just trying to learn, here. My buddy mentioned that GM (Duramaxes), in the owners manual says under no circumstances should you use an emulsifier. Their reasoning is that you don't want the moisture going thru the injector, turning to steam, and possibly cracking the injector tip. They recommend, if you have to use a conditioner, use Stanadyne or a demulsifier.



Again, in no way am I trying to challenge You. I respect Your opinions and appreciate all the work and expense You have gone thru and Your willingness to share this info. , with us. Do You have any thoughts as to why GM would prefer a demulsifier over an emulsifier? I know my buddies and I would be interested in hearing arguments for or against. All knowledgeable opinions would be appreciated.



Thanks, again, LightmanE300 and others, for all the info. posted here.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[coobie]

Stanadyne

Stanadyne performance formula for me since day one. 8oz per full tank of fuel. Good luck so far. Good reading and debates in this thread coobie

 

[LightmanE300]

Buffalo - they recommend a demulsifier because they 1. Put water separators on their trucks and 2. Believe that they work. This is just simply not the case. While the separator will catch a HUGE slug of water, once you've taken on that much water in the fuel, you are going to have an issue either way. Emulsifying/dispersing/solubizing additives will disperse about their 'weight' in water. If you have a large amount of water in your fuel, it will fall out of suspension and become 'free water. ' Once it's free water, the separator will catch it.



Now here's the key - what do you want to use for everyday driving? Most people will not get large slugs of water, or any free water in their fuel. BUT, there is always SOME water suspended/dissolved into the fuel. (diesel can hold up to about 100ppm-115ppm before it falls out of suspension and becomes free water). So, with the fact in mind that all fuel has water, and that it's going to be a small amount, would you rather break it down into tinier lubricated particles that pass through harmlessly, or clump it into bigger 'clumps' which stand to do more damage to your injection system? On an everyday basis assuming normal fuel, demulsifers compariatively/theoretically will cause more injection system wear due to the exposure of larger clumps of water passing through.



For those of you that think the demulsifiers work on fuel with normal water levels below 115ppm, go drain your fuel filter housing into a dry, clean glass. You'll find no water because they don't work with water that small.



Again, if you truly have a big amount of water/bad tank, your WIF light will come on, and regardless of additive, you will be having to get the water out somehow, and will probably see a towtruck (hope it's not a PS )



So the real question is, how do you want to deal with the small amounts of water that are in ALL fuel, knowing that it will inevitably pass through your system?



All of the additives have nice lube/detergent/lubricity packages are all great, and I'm sure they all work comparably. To me the biggest factor in choosing an additive is how it approaches water. I'm sure you guys probably caught that drift though



FWIW - you will see a lot of warnings about 'emulsifiers' from manufacturers and in older publications - because previous technology used alcohols to help, which we all know are a big no-no. Additives like primrose and redline don't have damaging alcohols, they disperse by other means. If you really want to get techy about it, which I don't really want to in this thread, there is a fine line between an emulsifier and a solubizer. However, they are just a slightly different means to an end - safely dispersing and passing water through the system.



Ok this is getting quite long winded. Sorry for the long post guys, hope it made some sense.

 

[LightmanE300]

PS I think FPPF additives also disperse water, but I'm not 100%.

 

[rbattelle]

Threads like this are why I don't currently run any additive... I'm just too confused.



-Ryan

 

[Buffalo]

This is getting interesting!

How many of You guy's have had fuel injection pumps and/or injector problems that are directly related to water in fuel?

I've heard of injector tips cracking because of water in fuel turning to steam in the hot injector tip. I don't know if early Duramaxes are more prone to this problem, or not. I, just, don't remember reading about too many people, on the TDR, having this problem.

Today, I called Primrose, Red Line and Stanadyne to see if they could give me good reasons for choosing their products. No one, really, convinced me that their product was "the Best". The way I understood it, Primrose and Red Line (emulsifier) break down the larger water droplets into very small, lubricated, molecules and, then, pass them thru the injectors. Hopefully, harmlessly. Stanadyne (demulsifier), apparently, "clumps" the water into larger droplets and separates them from the fuel, itself. The larger droplets then "pool" at the bottom of the tank or fuel filter bowl. LightmanE300, has great descriptions of how this works. It's been suggested that, possibly, some of these larger droplets, before they pool, could get pumped into the injection system and then create enough steam to crack the injector tip.

The Rep. at Stanadyne asked, Why would anyone want any water to pass thru the injector possibly cracking the tip? They then went on to say that they were the only additive that was approved by OEM's, Ford, GM, VW, Navistar, John Deere, Caterpillar, AM General and others. It seems like the main concern is the use of alcohol as a water dispersant. They said to beware of some emulsifying products that appear to not have alcohol but, actually do, by having another chemical name for alcohol.

I was looking at a Red Line Diesel Fuel Catalyst bottle and on the Warning label, it said "Combustable. Contains volitale aliphatic hydrocarbons and alkyl nitrates". Does anyone know if the word "alkyl" is another word for alcohol?

The emulsifier's seem to be able to be diluted, much further than the Stanadyne, demulsifier, and seem to be able to be purchased at a cheaper price, making them more economical, to use.

It seems that if water isn't that much of a REAL issue, and lubricity, detergent and cetane improvers are more important then, maybe, the emulsifier's may be the way to go.

I know that many of the diesel shops, here in Phoenix, and the Bosch facility, in Las Vegas, only handle Stanadyne. Not sure if that means it may be the safer but, more expensive, way to go.

This is why I would like to know if You guy's are experiencing water related pump and injector problems.

Thanks, for Your input. Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[WBusa]

Does anyone know if the word "alkyl" is another word for alcohol?

No, it is not. "alkyl" refers to a linear hydrocarbon, not an alcohol. Not to worry.



p. s. - Great thread! Us'ns over on the 2nd Gen boards have just picked up on this.

 

[rbattelle]

No, it is not. "alkyl" refers to a linear hydrocarbon, not an alcohol. Not to worry.



p. s. - Great thread! Us'ns over on the 2nd Gen boards have just picked up on this.

It would be nice if a moderator could delete the "('03s only)" from the title of this thread...



-Ryan