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Dodge and the new cummins, Last place
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Dodge is #1 -- others comparing apples & oranges
Federalman and a couple of others reminded me of another story. The young bull on the hill said to the older wiser bull as both looked at several cows below, “Let’s run down and catch one. ” The older wiser bull said, “Let’s walk down and catch them all. ” --ddutil-- the older bull must be Canadian
eh?
I agree with the positive well stated posts about the Dodge CTD being #1. Those who are less than positive seem to be looking at selected items–speed–speed and more speed. The same was true for the pickuptruck.com comparison. They didn't consider the GCWR and tow capacities.
In 1997 our old ride was failing so I started researching trucks. We planned on towing a nice 5'er and both the truck and 5'er were to be purchased in the 2002 to 2004 time frame. Due to the vehicle failure in 1999 we purchased a 1999 CTD 2500.
In late Nov 2002 we got a killer deal on a top end 5er.
My options are to: 1. upgrade the 1999 with a T/C and transmission upgrade, exhaust brake, 4 inch exhaust and power box or 2. buy a 2003 Dodge HO 48RE 4. 10's SRW or 3. buy a 2003 Ford PS 6. 0L. . . The Duramax was briefly considered and rejected.
I test drove 2 Fords 7. 3 and 6. 0 plus a step son has a 7. 3. The Ford has some very nice features, rides nice and is quick. But, we decided to go to the 2003 Dodge because the 2003 Ford tow rating is 13,800 lbs, the ‘99 2500 is about 12,000lbs and the 2003 Dodge is 16,000+lbs. NOTE: Dodge is #1 in tow ratings!! www.pickuptruck.com never considered the tow ratings in their comparison! What if the trailers were 16,000 instead of 12K or 12,500lbs?? Technically, Ford and Chevy couldn’t even get on the road because they would have been over loaded. . Therefore no contest! Dodge is #1, the only one for towing over 13,800 lbs. There is not competition.
Second (closely related to #1 above) the Dodge GCWR is 23,000 lbs compared to 20,000 for the Ford. NOTE: Dodge is #1, again.
The third reason we decided on a Dodge CTD is longevity. We expect this to be the last truck we will buy. When we are much older and greyer we will trade the truck in on a couple of wheel chairs. Until then, we will be driving the #1 truck over all, pulling our 35' Alfa Gold and loving it!!
I cannot add to the well stated prior statements about the total package, long life, etc, except to say I agree and Dodge is #1 in those areas too. Is the Dodge CTD perfect, no, not even close, but much closer to perfection than the others in most areas, but not in all areas.
If you tow heavy there is only one choice, if you want longevity, there is only one choice. If these two items are not a priority then you have other choices. However, when you consider speed and/or torque as the criteria, Dodge is only Slightly Slower than the other two and not enough IMO to get a dime store or drug store cowboy truck. Remember the 6. 0L PS is unproven and not a straight six.
In my not so humble and long winded opinion, Dodge CTD is the only “real” truck. Ever noticed the 18 wheelers have straight 6 cylinders in them. Ever wonder why?
Regards from a son of a trucker and brother of a trucker (18 wheelers of course).
Federalman and a couple of others reminded me of another story. The young bull on the hill said to the older wiser bull as both looked at several cows below, “Let’s run down and catch one. ” The older wiser bull said, “Let’s walk down and catch them all. ” --ddutil-- the older bull must be Canadian
eh?I agree with the positive well stated posts about the Dodge CTD being #1. Those who are less than positive seem to be looking at selected items–speed–speed and more speed. The same was true for the pickuptruck.com comparison. They didn't consider the GCWR and tow capacities.
In 1997 our old ride was failing so I started researching trucks. We planned on towing a nice 5'er and both the truck and 5'er were to be purchased in the 2002 to 2004 time frame. Due to the vehicle failure in 1999 we purchased a 1999 CTD 2500.
In late Nov 2002 we got a killer deal on a top end 5er.
My options are to: 1. upgrade the 1999 with a T/C and transmission upgrade, exhaust brake, 4 inch exhaust and power box or 2. buy a 2003 Dodge HO 48RE 4. 10's SRW or 3. buy a 2003 Ford PS 6. 0L. . . The Duramax was briefly considered and rejected.
I test drove 2 Fords 7. 3 and 6. 0 plus a step son has a 7. 3. The Ford has some very nice features, rides nice and is quick. But, we decided to go to the 2003 Dodge because the 2003 Ford tow rating is 13,800 lbs, the ‘99 2500 is about 12,000lbs and the 2003 Dodge is 16,000+lbs. NOTE: Dodge is #1 in tow ratings!! www.pickuptruck.com never considered the tow ratings in their comparison! What if the trailers were 16,000 instead of 12K or 12,500lbs?? Technically, Ford and Chevy couldn’t even get on the road because they would have been over loaded. . Therefore no contest! Dodge is #1, the only one for towing over 13,800 lbs. There is not competition.
Second (closely related to #1 above) the Dodge GCWR is 23,000 lbs compared to 20,000 for the Ford. NOTE: Dodge is #1, again.
The third reason we decided on a Dodge CTD is longevity. We expect this to be the last truck we will buy. When we are much older and greyer we will trade the truck in on a couple of wheel chairs. Until then, we will be driving the #1 truck over all, pulling our 35' Alfa Gold and loving it!!
I cannot add to the well stated prior statements about the total package, long life, etc, except to say I agree and Dodge is #1 in those areas too. Is the Dodge CTD perfect, no, not even close, but much closer to perfection than the others in most areas, but not in all areas.
If you tow heavy there is only one choice, if you want longevity, there is only one choice. If these two items are not a priority then you have other choices. However, when you consider speed and/or torque as the criteria, Dodge is only Slightly Slower than the other two and not enough IMO to get a dime store or drug store cowboy truck. Remember the 6. 0L PS is unproven and not a straight six.
In my not so humble and long winded opinion, Dodge CTD is the only “real” truck. Ever noticed the 18 wheelers have straight 6 cylinders in them. Ever wonder why?
Regards from a son of a trucker and brother of a trucker (18 wheelers of course).
Looks like this flame/frustration got extinguished pretty quick.
I agree that it would be nice if Dodge/Cummins ran some ads comparing themselves to the competition;
All those ads Ford runs showing it pulling or towing something or the other; geesh.
Remember the the one where the Ford is pulling the front end loader (you could pull one with a small vehicle as long as the loaders brakes weren't set and it was on a hard surface, like the ad, but the buying public is by-and-large stupid) -- how about a Dodge pulling both of them the opposite direction while the Ford smoked, belched, and then finally blew apart? Same goes for that arirplane ad they run now; and the dragstrip ad -- except in the dragstrip ad Dodge could be pulling the big trailer AND a Ford and trailer behind that. The Dodge would get to the end of the track a second later; smiling and waving while the Ford guy's draw dropped seeing the load. The Dodge pulls more and does it reliably; the public would understand that if Dodge/Cummins started getting the word out.
The ads on TV
Ya'll ever wonder why Ford spends so much time and money promoting their diesels and Dodge doesn't?
Turn on the tube and you see Fords "pulling" ships, airplanes, and even drag racing--what a novel idea. But you have to watch very closely to see any mention of Cummins in a Dodge ads.
Basic rule of politics #1 If you tell a lie, either big enough, or loud enough and long enough, then people will begin to believe it.
Basic rule of marketing #1 If a product is selling itself, don't waste money on advertising.
Ya'll ever wonder why Ford spends so much time and money promoting their diesels and Dodge doesn't?
Turn on the tube and you see Fords "pulling" ships, airplanes, and even drag racing--what a novel idea. But you have to watch very closely to see any mention of Cummins in a Dodge ads.
Basic rule of politics #1 If you tell a lie, either big enough, or loud enough and long enough, then people will begin to believe it.
Basic rule of marketing #1 If a product is selling itself, don't waste money on advertising.
"Basic rule of marketing #1 If a product is selling itself, don't waste money on advertising. "
HMMmmmm - and WHICH one of the "big 3" sells MORE trucks than the OTHER 2 combined... ?
HMMmmmm - and WHICH one of the "big 3" sells MORE trucks than the OTHER 2 combined... ?
Re: The ads on TV
i will have to disagree. marketing is everything! if the general public knew what it really means to own a cummins diesel and also knew that cummins power helps the world go around non diesel loving people would be buying dodge diesels. they would be buying just b/c they would want to own a cummins diesel. if i was head of marketing for dodge/cummins i would bring sales up to powerstroke levels. we need to start a forum to get commercial ideas form the tdr memebers. anyone want to back me up? then we can vote on the best one and propose it to diamlerchrysler(since they seem to need some help in this department) we can use the proceeds to fund this site and some of our funtions.
i will have to disagree. marketing is everything! if the general public knew what it really means to own a cummins diesel and also knew that cummins power helps the world go around non diesel loving people would be buying dodge diesels. they would be buying just b/c they would want to own a cummins diesel. if i was head of marketing for dodge/cummins i would bring sales up to powerstroke levels. we need to start a forum to get commercial ideas form the tdr memebers. anyone want to back me up? then we can vote on the best one and propose it to diamlerchrysler(since they seem to need some help in this department) we can use the proceeds to fund this site and some of our funtions.
Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q
"Basic rule of marketing #1 If a product is selling itself, don't waste money on advertising. "
HMMmmmm - and WHICH one of the "big 3" sells MORE trucks than the OTHER 2 combined... ?
It's Ford, but if you add up Chevy and GMC trucks since they are both GM products I think GM really sells more trucks. I looked and looked for 2002 production numbers and can't find anything.
I would like to see real truck numbers. Ford/Chevy/Dodge 3/4 and one ton only data. Like an F150 is considered a truck.
My 96 Impala SS out towed my buddy's F150 all day long.My last ford pickup couldnt tow its own butt up a hill let alone a trailer. My dads PS is an alright ride. I dont mind driving it. Mileage aint so good. Its not gonna make 180k before rebuild. But he absolutely loves it. Its strong up to about 12k anything over that better break out the bad boy.
Has anyone noticed the big numbers out of these small displacement engines dodge is getting with the hemis.
As for the competition. If I wanted big numbers with bad mileage that chevy 8. 1 looks sweet. Id take the gasser over their diesel.
In the end it all comes down to personal preference. And brand loyalty. Im loyal to my pocketbook. Thats why I own an I6.
Has anyone noticed the big numbers out of these small displacement engines dodge is getting with the hemis.
As for the competition. If I wanted big numbers with bad mileage that chevy 8. 1 looks sweet. Id take the gasser over their diesel.
In the end it all comes down to personal preference. And brand loyalty. Im loyal to my pocketbook. Thats why I own an I6.
Re: Re: The ads on TV
The "general public" is an idiot. That's why advertising works. (no offense, WE're not the GP--when it comes to trucks).
Good luck educating the masses, but I really don't want _everybody_ driving the same truck.
One of the local dealers will not put a non-Cummins 2500/3500 on the lot. Gassers have to be special ordered at that store. He's not worried about DC advertising or what some truck rag says about the Cummins.
And I _ain't_ either.
Well yeah, it would be fun to see _OUR CHOSEN ONE_ all glamorized and glorified up on the TV. And I'm sure we could come up with some real good uns, but I don't think DC sees it as an issue.
The "general public" is an idiot. That's why advertising works. (no offense, WE're not the GP--when it comes to trucks).
Good luck educating the masses, but I really don't want _everybody_ driving the same truck.
One of the local dealers will not put a non-Cummins 2500/3500 on the lot. Gassers have to be special ordered at that store. He's not worried about DC advertising or what some truck rag says about the Cummins.
And I _ain't_ either.
Well yeah, it would be fun to see _OUR CHOSEN ONE_ all glamorized and glorified up on the TV. And I'm sure we could come up with some real good uns, but I don't think DC sees it as an issue.
I think DC 'does' have it figured out. They market to people like us who own their products. Chevy markets to a different crowd, so probably does Ford. Don't think they haven't done any market surveys. I wish they had a little better color selection on the new trucks. Don't know if you are the proper demographic for your truck? Visit http://cartalk.cars.com/Survey/Results/Psychographics/
and see where you sit.
I don't fit the typical profile for the vehicle I own. Last time I checked, it says I should be a Chevy truck owner.
and see where you sit.
I don't fit the typical profile for the vehicle I own. Last time I checked, it says I should be a Chevy truck owner.
Last edited by a moderator:
I think "Click and Clack" are smarter than that guy Gordon Liddy thinks is such a guru and has on all the time.
Guy called in when he was on and said, 'I've got a 3500 Cummins what can I do for a little more power?' Response from the Liddy buddy was, Call Gayle Banks- he knows everything diesel.
And I'm screamin' TDR DUDE! People look at you funny when you do that.
Guy called in when he was on and said, 'I've got a 3500 Cummins what can I do for a little more power?' Response from the Liddy buddy was, Call Gayle Banks- he knows everything diesel.
And I'm screamin' TDR DUDE! People look at you funny when you do that.
Hi Bob,
My compliments to you. This thread you started keeps going
and growing. I have learned several things from other posts. I think I decided you have been testing all of us -- playing the devil's advocate. I hope we passed with so many positive comments and belief that Dodge CTD is overall #1. I bet most of us agree DC and Dodge could do a better job in many areas and that Ford & GM trucks have some very nice attributes. I guess I look at it this way... Only one team can be the Super Bowl Champions, but that doesn't make the second or third place teams loosers. All had to be winners to get to the championship. Also during the season and championship game the winner will fumble, throw interceptions, make bad plays and get penalties. It is the one with the overall best scoring who wins. Dodge, Ford & GM fumble, get penalties, etc. . Who "wins" is subjective and each of us has a different opinion.
I hope you didn't take my
post and others personal. Best regards, Richard
Last Place
I currently own 2 dodges with cummins and I did not buy either one because of speed performance.
The reason I did the post was the article in the TDR mag. when they first announced the new HO as being the strongest diesel in the industry and Dodge was committed to staying there.
Since I deliver RV's and my truck has a life of towing (about 150k a year) I needed the best tool for the job.
Of the Pickups available only Dodge and the medium duty Cummins was a good fit. Strong enough to pull any trailer, best fuel mileage, longest lasting and easiest and cheapest to repair.
I still believe it (cummins) is the best choice, just wished we had the bragging rights I was hopping for!
This has been a most interesting post and I had no idea it would grow like this.
Bob
I currently own 2 dodges with cummins and I did not buy either one because of speed performance.
The reason I did the post was the article in the TDR mag. when they first announced the new HO as being the strongest diesel in the industry and Dodge was committed to staying there.
Since I deliver RV's and my truck has a life of towing (about 150k a year) I needed the best tool for the job.
Of the Pickups available only Dodge and the medium duty Cummins was a good fit. Strong enough to pull any trailer, best fuel mileage, longest lasting and easiest and cheapest to repair.
I still believe it (cummins) is the best choice, just wished we had the bragging rights I was hopping for!
This has been a most interesting post and I had no idea it would grow like this.
Bob
Did you know that vehicle advertising
Target Audience is NOT someone who is going to TO BUY A VEHICLE - but FOLKS like us who already have them!!!! They are intended to reinforce that you made the correct purchasing decision AND you'll do the selling for them to your friends etc. HONEST!
Target Audience is NOT someone who is going to TO BUY A VEHICLE - but FOLKS like us who already have them!!!! They are intended to reinforce that you made the correct purchasing decision AND you'll do the selling for them to your friends etc. HONEST!
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