Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Dodge engine overheating, Colorado mountains

[Ron Bissett]

Groser, you can not stay up with the bomers with a stock truck that is over loaded and auto transmission (stock) no gauge . The transmission is sliping and will not last long if you don't do some mods and keep pulling the killer loads . slow down and think of how you will stop the over load rig on the way down the pass . warrenty keeps some from bombing and exhaust brakes will not help stock transmission and DC voids auto transmission with exhust brakes ,choise lighten the load ,too the LIMIT IN THE OWNERS MANUAL. Or bombs away . Or stay home Or... ... ... ... ... . ? Ron Bissett in LOUISVILLE KY:--)

 

[jwdeeming]

groser,



I'm at your altitude. See bombs in sig. My engine temp can redline even with a locked TC and tran temp never going above 200deg. I have the smart controller, I have the BHAF, 4" exhaust, I have done the 180 deg thermostat, I have cleaned out the fins, I have flushed the system and the thing STILL overheats.



I believe I'm hearing my fan the same way you described. Sometimes on strong at 190, but then seems to fade out and isn't roaring when temps start that soar from 200+ on up to redline. I intend to do the fan clutch next, but am on the fence about going for the $Horton$.



I don't hotrod up to the top of a pass with a trailer full of horses, but there's no excuse for this thing overheating like this. My wife pulled our 27' TT up the same pass I pulled the horses two weeks ago and I was the one who kept slowing us down because of heat probs. Her v10 never got over 190.



I'll keep you posted with what I find.



Jim -it's NOT the thermostat!- Deeming

 

[BLee]

ATS is based in Wheat Ridge, right outside Denver. If you are still in Colorado, you ought to see them about that transmission before it's history. You might have a cooling problem such as a bad fan clutch, etc, but I'll bet most of your problem is simply too much weight up too long grades at too high altitude for a stock auto transmission. If you slip the torque converter clutch very much, you'll plug the transmission passages and burn it up. It's kind of a pay me now or pay me later big time, and maybe not much later, too. I'm using ATS products, but I'm not affiliated with them in any way. In fact, I've never met anyone from ATS. There are several reputable transmission shops who have apparently solved the problem of keeping our transmissions intact under heavy loads. Talk to one of them soon or you'll be unhappy with your truck, when it could have all been prevented.

 

[groser]

Update after visit to dealer

Update after visit to dealer. I would like to thank everyone for their input. I learned a lot, especially about TC and AT. Dealer checked thermostat again (he replaced it once before), checked fan clutch and inspected radiator fins ( I had already removed coolers and cleaned them 8,000 miles ago. Found nothing wrong.

I weighed the rig again, it's 20,400 lbs for truck and 5th wheel fully loaded. Owner's manual limit for my rig is 19,000 lbs, I'm about 7% overweight. I'm going to assume anyone pulling a +32 ft 5th wheel is probably over the limits. Overheating at 58 degrees outside air temp just doesn't seem right to me. I could see it at current temps, about +90 degrees. It seems my next step is to install some gauges and investigate some transmission shops for some aftermarket options. 2 weeks ago I pulled it to Lake of Ozarks with no problem.

I used to live at 10,000 feet in Breckenridge and never had a problem with high temps when not pulling a load. Did not have an EGT gage installed so perhaps my EGT was running high and I just didn't know it. I'm now at 5,000 feet feet in Denver area for a spell. Thanks again for all the information.

 

[Mingoglia]

I think there's definitely something wrong. I my opinion, you should be getting anywhere near that temp at that altitude. I run just over 19,000lb combined here in Phoenix. I do have a EZ and a 5 speed but I can cruise up the 6 1/2 to 7% grades heading up towards Flagstaff in overdrive with my foot to the floor the entire time... this is in 100+ degree weather, with the music blasting, A/C on, frosty cold beverage in the cup holder, ****** as hell that someone pulled in front of me (this info probably isn't helping you, is it? ).



Over the holiday weekend last month while going up to Lake Powell (from Phoenix) I couldn't get my post EGT past 880degrees (let alone get my temperature gauge to much more than a needles width past what it runs around town. I was trying!!



Although I never towed my trailer up north when it was stock, I did tow over to Yuma (which is a relatively flat trip) on two occasions (stock). On the second trip, I was running in a strong head wind and I could get my EGTs past 1000 degrees when trying to pass someone in 1:1. My temperature gauge was also up somewhat (not nearly what yours is). All this happened around November or so so the temperature outside was probably upper 60s or so... What I'm getting at is when I upgraded to the Edge EZ, my EGT went down a solid 300-350 degrees post turbo. My coolant temperature now barely moves past straight up and down when pulling in the mountains... maybe it's time for you to upgrade. I do think (as someone suggested) that a turbo gauge might help you in determining what's going on. I contribute my much cooler temperatures not necessarily from the EZ, but from the boost elbow that comes with it. I'm running between 6-8lbs more boost than stock which I'm sure contributes greatly to my lower EGT.



Mike

 

[billr]

I pull a TS33 Cardinal fifth-wheel and run at slightly over 20,000 GCVR and live in Colorado. I've pulled many hills in Colorado, Utah and Arizona in the heat. I have a six speed manual transmission. My truck has yet to exceed 192 degrees while pulling grades. At about 190 the fan (scared the h**l out of me the first time) comes on and cools the engine back to normal. If yours doesn't cool the radiator almost immediately I wouldn't worry about the auto transmission first.



I pull these grades at speed. Normally at or just below the posted limits. I'll admit that I just did install gauges for EGT and BOOST and may change driving habits next trip.

 

[BLee]

Minglglia and Billr, here's my theory. A major difference between your trucks and his is that your transmissions are always locked up. There's never any energy loss between the transmission input shaft and output shaft on those manual transmissions. His is the same way if he is in 3rd or OD with the T/C locked. Problem is he doesn't have the power to pull grades in even 3rd locked up. When his transmission shifts to 2nd to give him power and torque, he's in fluid coupling, and he gets major energy loss into the transmission fluid in that mode. You cannot be there for very long. His truck then uses the heat exchanger in the radiator to try to disapate the heat. That heats the radiator coolant. He doesn't have enough radiator capacity to take off that much heat, so he overheats. Yes, he could gain capacity with a better fan system on the radiator, but his unlocked transmission is the original source of heat that you don't have to begin with. Could be wrong, but that's what I think is happening. Spell Checker still not working for me.

Bill

 

[Mingoglia]

Good point... Time to upgrade to get a little more power so he can pull a higher gear and upgrade the transmission so it locks up in the lower gears.

 

[Mingoglia]

... a little off subject... Once I can get my lazy but in the shower I'll be headed up to Flagstaff. I'll try to beat my record of 880 degrees post turbo on the trip while I'm driving like my tail's on fire.

 

[Snow man]

I totally agree with Blee,the auto is the problem,this is why the 5-6 speed trucks are rated to pull more weight. The truck needs to stay in 3rd gear,not necessarily locked up,but it needs to be going faster,which will force more cooling air,and if he had a good tc in there,it wouldnt need to be locked,although it would help to be locked,if he had the power to do so. To go fast enough he is going to need another 80-100hp,and the ability to use it,so EGT;s need to be addressed,and kept below 1300 or so for the duration of the hill. This means full blown trans upgrades too.

 

[groser]

Update again

Thanks for info. Truck is at ATS in Denver for look see and installation of transmission temp, EGT and Boost gages. I'm in Alaska right now on business (and some fishing) and will return in early August and resume testing after talking to ATS. Suspect I will need modified transmission or new truck with manual transmission which is what I wanted in first place but wife insisted she couldn't drive it with a manual. . Guess what. She never drives it anyways.

 

[jjdiesel]

overheating at altitude

O. K. guys... just got back from camping in Leadville Col, was gonna start a thread about my problems and seen this one, so, here goes. My truck is a '99 ETC with a 6spd, 4X4. I have DDII's, Power Edge Fueling box and an EZ, 4" exhaust, clutch, stock turbo. Truck ran great from St. Louis to Denver, then... first hill out of Denver and I'm on the side of the road trying to cool down. Watched my EGT's and never got them over 1100, kept rpm's up and could not get anywhere without water temp going thru roof. Pulling a 10 to 11k fiver. Finally got to Leadville and ordered a new fan clutch and 180 thermastat, thinking I didn't hear the fan clutch like I normally do. Anyway, first hill out of Leadville with new stuff and water temp thru the roof again!! I'm bummin'. The approach eastbound to the Eisenhower tunnel killed me... on side of road 4 times cooling it down. Finally made it to the flats and truck ran fine. Something is not right... 11k is a small load for these trucks. I don't get it, once it got hot I could hardly get anywhere and I'm on the side of the road. Had plenty of power but could not use it cause of water temps. Any help would sure be appreciated. I was careful with my EGT's, as I stated, never let them get over 1100. My '95 12 valve never did this in the mountains.

 

[M Barnett]

Did you read my post on page one? As you've got a new fan clutch and thermostat, why not try it?

Michael

 

[Lsfarm]

Dirty Radiator Fins

A fellow TDR member [Rob Thomas] had an overheating problem. He pulled the radiator out and was amazed at the amount of stuff in the cooling fins.

He commented that it was all greasy and in a ring around the fan, and was thickest on the engine side of the radiator. After cleaning the fins with solvent and air, his overheating problem was fixed.



This is the best explanation I could come up with for him about the ring of oil and junk on the engine side of the radiator: Have you ever watched a film of a helicopter landing/taking off? Notice the huge swirl of air around the tips of the rotor blades? I believe that the fan on our engines has a similar reverse flow around the tips and pulls the oil residue from the blow-by bottle and deposits this oil on the radiator.



I doubt if there is a reverse flow when driving down the road, but at idle I'd almost guarantee it.



When I removed my fan for winter last year, with the blow-by bottle still installed, I was amazed at how much oil and crud was on the fan blades and radiator. This was with very low miles on the truck and an otherwise clean engine compartment.



So: I would pull the radiator and look through it, to make sure that the fins are all clear. Use solvent and clean as needed. Just be careful as the fins can be bent by high pressure water or air.





Hope this helps, Greg L The Noise Nazi

 

[stseeber]

LSFarm maybe right as I recently noticed a buildup of grease and dirt on my fan blades so who knows what is in the radiator fins? I had to individually hand clean the blades. Have not had any cooling problems but if the blades were like I saw them I'm sure it wouldnt hurt to clean radiator fins. Steve

 

[Snow man]

I relocated my catch bottle wwhen i bought my truck,it had 50K on it,the radiator was full of oil,the fins were 1/2 blocked off with crud,I pulled it out,and used lots of brake cleaner,and compressed air to clean it. It ran over 220 in 90 degrees,with a/c on,and only a 7500 lb trailer. maybe its just me,but having owned both a 12V,and a 24 truck,it seems like the 24V's do not have the cooling capacity of the 12V trucks,My 12v never ran over 190,no matter what,the 24V truck,even after a cleaned ,flushed radiator,and new clutch fan,still runs much hotter, I think my 2000 would overheat if i had any mountains around here. I hit 210 cruising at 95 mph,no trailer all the time. as soon as i get back down to 80 or so,it cools down to 190.

 

[jjdiesel]

Greg, you may be right. Before the trip I picked up the rig in Canada... went through a bug colony like I've never seen before, I mean these things were huge and splattered everywhere, I couldn't see out the windsheild. Cleaned them all off the next day but... . like you say, they could be jammed in the radiator and clogging things up... not to mention the the grease on the other side. When I changed the clutch fan, it was grease everywhere, an eighth inch thick on the blades of the fan. The bummer is I'm back home and I can't trouble shoot the fix because I don't have high altitude here... don't know when and if I've found the fix. Oh well... thanks for the tips.

 

[Pit Bull]

Every time I clean the engine (every couple of months) I spray the radiator with Simple Green, It does a great job. Seems to just melt the oil and grease away

 

[Old Man]

Overheating

I agree with Snow Man. I think someone said that some of the 12V's radiator were not made of aluminum. Does any one know if the 12V's capacity is greater than the 24's, if so will a 12V's radiator bolt up to the 24V's. I'm thinking aftermarket (radiator) if it's the last resort and I can find one that will bolt up. I'm changing fluid tomorrow. 18 mos. on old fluid. Grabbing for straws. 01 Dually @ 16,800 miles. Later. O. M.

 

[Mingoglia]

Snow Man: 95MPH with 4:10 gears... I too would expect to run a little warmer seeing as you're probably pretty close to redline...