Dodge/Ferd/Cheby Shootout

[craiggo]

Sorry if this has been posted already, I searched the b-jesus out of the site and didn't get any hits. This is a public site with not password needed so I don't think I'm violating any EULA's here. Also, I'm posting here because they tested the 6. 7.



WARNING it's very long!! I think the Ram would have done better with a 3. 73 rear end????



PickupTruck. Com - Part 1: 2007 PickupTruck.com Heavy Duty Shootout

 

[Wolfy]

Sorry if this has been posted already, I searched the b-jesus out of the site and didn't get any hits. This is a public site with not password needed so I don't think I'm violating any EULA's here. Also, I'm posting here because they tested the 6. 7.



WARNING it's very long!! I think the Ram would have done better with a 3. 73 rear end????



PickupTruck. Com - Part 1: 2007 PickupTruck.com Heavy Duty Shootout

Thanks for posting Craiggo,



Pretty thorough performance test.



Gotta admit the Chevy did very well



I've got a Chevy-friend who's gonna be pleased, for sure.

 

[MMeier]

I have a video of a very similar test between the 3 trucks, but can not seem to download to here for what ever reason. Most of us would get a kick outta it! :-laf

 

[MMeier]

Oh, lets try again!!

Its called the 2005 Diesel death march! It is a html file, cannot download here! Came from inline diesel, Any of you guys know how to get it to work here, post up or let me know, funny as all get out! Try this... go to Nothing pulls like a Cummins! and click on 2005 diesel death march

 

[Wolfy]

Its called the 2005 Diesel death march! It is a html file, cannot download here! Came from inline diesel, Any of you guys know how to get it to work here, post up or let me know, funny as all get out! Try this... go to Nothing pulls like a Cummins! and click on 2005 diesel death march

LOL! Thanks MMeier



It got dark here for a while yesterday. I think one of those Montana Wild Kittys walked over my house!



Now I gotta get rid of my Ram,... don't want to be pulling my new trailers in half.

 

[MMeier]

Yep, took a bit, but we got it up!!

 

[DMarkle]

Yep, took a bit, but we got it up!!

OMG thats hysterical !!! Thanks for the entertainment factor, even if it IS "based on actual events". :-laf:-laf

 

[JMetzger]

I just received my latest Diesel World magazine & they ran a test between the Dodge (468 points), Chevy (478 points) & Ford (449 points). The Chevy won the overall rating by 10 points but the Dodge as they stated "The Dodge can out tow it" & they said that the Ford had a nice interior & softer ride. One of the testers said that the "Silverado might make a better car than a truck". If I am buying a truck I would sooner have one that would pull better & get better fuel mileage which the Dodge did. Just my 2cents worth. All in all it was a good article, at least they used the same trailer & course for all the trucks.

 

[RVTRKN]

Sorry if this has been posted already, I searched the b-jesus out of the site and didn't get any hits. This is a public site with not password needed so I don't think I'm violating any EULA's here. Also, I'm posting here because they tested the 6. 7.



WARNING it's very long!! I think the Ram would have done better with a 3. 73 rear end????



PickupTruck. Com - Part 1: 2007 PickupTruck.com Heavy Duty Shootout

I,m curious, why did they use 3:73 gears on the other two and not on the Ram. My C&C has the 3:73's although its a man tran and 305 HP but I bet it would keep up or even pass them on long grades. Is this test done by the same mag as was done in 05 on the shootout between the 6. 0, LLY and 5. 9 Cummins. I remember it seemed to be rigged in favor of GM just like this seems to be. GM has spent a lots of money trying to best the Cummins, only to have an engine that runs hot and is quicker only on the drag strips (some times). I didn't buy my 6. 7 to win races, I bought it to pull lots of pounds and last a long time.

Kind of like trying to compare a Harley ultra classic full dress hog to the Honda goldwing, Yes, the Honda is quicker and more refined, but I bet if you would give someone a chance to pick only one of them free and clear they would pick the Harley

The HP ratings of the D/A are up there but what about the longevity and sure grunt power our Cummins have. I still have yet had a 04 (MY or earlier) of Ford or GM out tow me on any grade with my 04. 5-5. 9 Cummins, now that I think about it, any MY beat me up a grade.

 

[Bill Stockard]

I,m curious, why did they use 3:73 gears on the other two and not on the Ram. My C&C has the 3:73's although its a man tran and 305 HP but I bet it would keep up or even pass them on long grades. Is this test done by the same mag as was done in 05 on the shootout between the 6. 0, LLY and 5. 9 Cummins. I remember it seemed to be rigged in favor of GM just like this seems to be.

QUOTE]



In late '02/early '03 they tested the '03 Dodge, Ford, and GM trucks, The Ford SD with the 6. 0L engine with the TorqueShift automatic transmisson was the best thing since sliced bread. We know how that turned out...



Could GM be their largest advertising account in 2006/2007?



Many magazines write so called tests of different products as a way of "indirect advertising" for a major ad client. Some magazines allow their major advertising accounts to review/edit or even write the "tests" and make it look like the magazine did the testing.



Like the old saying, ... "believe half of what you read"



Bill

 

[BHolm]

How much do you figure the tiny little tires on the Chev helped overall gearing? They definately just plain look stupid, especially the dually. They put these big flared fenders on the truck then fit the smallest tires possible. So what happens when new owners fit a decent sized tire, which is what I did on the two Isuzumax trucks I had. I suspect that slight edge fades a bit, making them pretty even. I would agree that with a 3. 73 the Dodge probably would have pulled harder towards the end of the 1/4.



I think it is remarkable how well the Dodge does with an engine that was never meant to be a quick revver. The V8's are made for that, yet the Dodge is right in there.



So what did Ford do to add 1000lbs to the wieght of an EMPTY truck????I thought ours were pretty heavy but that is nuts!



Like I always tell people, there is only ONE brand that honestly advertises the origin of thier diesel engine. We all proudly wear CUMMINS badges on our trucks. I don't see anybody driving around with Isuzu or Navistar badges on their trucks do you?



I have also owned them all and there is no doubt the GM trucks are the best car of the bunch. Perfect for the weekend sissy looking to tow his 4000lb boat, not much good with a 15k lb load on, been there done that

 

[RamStud139419850]

I had an informal test two weeks ago while going on vacation: The trip was from Vegas to Bridgeport, Ca. The rigs, My friends 06 Mega, all stock except airraid intake and 35" Toyos pulling a 39' Sandpiper 5er. My other friends 08 F-450 crew cab,6. 4, 4x4, 4. 88's, all stock, pulling a 40' Rampage 5er. And my truck, an 07 F-350, crew cab, 6. 0,auto, 10" lift, 38. 5" tires, 4. 88 gears, AFE intake, 5" exhaust and SCT tuner set on towing, and a bunch more stuff that won't help towing ,pulling a 32' bumper pull Weekend Warrior. All the trailers are fiberglass sided, 1 Yamaha Rhino in each, all black ,gray , fresh tanks empty. Both of the 5ers have one bedroom slide out,mine has none. So to summarize, you would think my hopped up F-350 towing a shorter ,lighter trailer would stomp my two other friends, HUH, nope! The 06 Cummins SMOKED! both of us, by a long shot, dissappeared, gone, BYE BYE! I outpulled the F-450 on the hills, but again, his trailer is much larger and I think the 4. 88's hurt him with little tires. No doubt, he probably could tow that thing all day every day and be happy. Anyhow, I think it's clear the Cummins is stronger and more reliable that the competition, but you have to get what suits you, which is why I don't have my Mega anymore, I needed a long bed and wasn't gonna buy a Chevy. My wifes Excursion 6. 0 is getting long in the tooth, if Dodge would hurry up with the long bed Mega's, I'll get one.

 

[MLevine]

In late '02/early '03 they tested the '03 Dodge, Ford, and GM trucks, The Ford SD with the 6. 0L engine with the TorqueShift automatic transmisson was the best thing since sliced bread. We know how that turned out...

Could GM be their largest advertising account in 2006/2007?

Many magazines write so called tests of different products as a way of "indirect advertising" for a major ad client. Some magazines allow their major advertising accounts to review/edit or even write the "tests" and make it look like the magazine did the testing.

Like the old saying, ... "believe half of what you read"

Bill

Interesting points I thought I'd respond to.

These are performance not durability tests. The 6. 0L PSD had the best performance of the diesels we tested in 2003. We couldn't predict all the warranty issues that came after our test, or any warranty issues that may come after this year's test either.

GM is not a current advertiser, nor were they in 2006. And, for that matter, neither is Ford or Chrysler a current advertiser. These tests were 100% unbiased and independently measured and certified by Ricardo Engineering. I'd like to hear the reasoning for how the F-350 PSD finished in third place in the grade tests at Ford's Michigan Proving Grounds.

WRT the axle ratio in the Cummins Ram. We requested 3. 73 axles in all the trucks but the Ram came with a 4. 10. As each manufacturer provided the specs on the trucks they were going to loan, we shared the data (yes, including rear axle ratios) with the other OEMs. So, all the manufacturers were aware of what the others were bringing to the tests.

I'm happy to answer any other questions everyone might have. We really tried to make this test as fair and equal as possible.

- Mike

 

[Jaysyl]

Interesting points I thought I'd respond to.



These are performance not durability tests. The 6. 0L PSD had the best performance of the diesels we tested in 2003. We couldn't predict all the warranty issues that came after our test, or any warranty issues that may come after this year's test either.



GM is not a current advertiser, nor were they in 2006. And, for that matter, neither is Ford or Chrysler a current advertiser. These tests were 100% unbiased and independently measured and certified by Ricardo Engineering. I'd like to hear the reasoning for how the F-350 PSD finished in third place in the grade tests at Ford's Michigan Proving Grounds.



WRT the axle ratio in the Cummins Ram. We requested 3. 73 axles in all the trucks but the Ram came with a 4. 10. As each manufacturer provided the specs on the trucks they were going to loan, we shared the data (yes, including rear axle ratios) with the other OEMs. So, all the manufacturers were aware of what the others were bringing to the tests.



I'm happy to answer any other questions everyone might have. We really tried to make this test as fair and equal as possible.



- Mike

Thanks for the reply to this thread, and welcome to TDR.

 

[MLevine]

Great to be here!

 

[Wolfy]

Interesting points I thought I'd respond to.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

WRT the axle ratio in the Cummins Ram. We requested 3. 73 axles in all the trucks but the Ram came with a 4. 10. As each manufacturer provided the specs on the trucks they were going to loan, we shared the data (yes, including rear axle ratios) with the other OEMs. So, all the manufacturers were aware of what the others were bringing to the tests.



I'm happy to answer any other questions everyone might have. We really tried to make this test as fair and equal as possible.



- Mike

Hello and welcome Mike,



Thanks for all the effort you put into the tests.



A specific question(s) re. the rear axles:



Have you, at any time, by any means of communication, had discussion with, or comment from the party who provided the Dodge, about the reason the requested 373 was not provided,... and if so, what was the stated reason?



Thanks,

 

[MLevine]

Chrysler provided both Ram pickups but didn't give a reason for why the 3. 73 wasn't provided for the Ram 3500 (diesel). Before we did the testing I thought the 4. 10 was going to favor the Ram in every test - especially on the grades.

On a related note, the Ram 2500 (gas) was going to have a 4. 56 rear axle but it was changed just before delivery to a 3. 73.

And for a really dramatic look at what an axle ratio can do for performance, look at how the F-250 V10 4. 30 did in the level 1/4-mile v. the grades.

Like I said earlier, we shared all the specs - so each manufacturer was aware of how the competing pickups were configured. And, reps (communications staff and engineers) from all the manufacturers were on hand for the 1/4-mile drag testing, so they got to see how their trucks performed in-person. They even got to drive each other's trucks.

 

[Wolfy]

Chrysler provided both Ram pickups but didn't give a reason for why the 3. 73 wasn't provided for the Ram 3500 (diesel). Before we did the testing I thought the 4. 10 was going to favor the Ram in every test - especially on the grades.

Mike, I appreciate the quick reply.



I realize that this decision by Chrysler was probably beyond your control, but let's look at the consequence:



A truck intended for participation in an even-Steven competition was set-up DIFFERENTLY from the competition, in a manner that you (and undoubtedly Chrysler) expected to "favor the Ram".



BOO!



Those expectations were not met, ... which leaves us with another consequence:



Now your readership (including those at TDR) DO NOT KNOW how the Ram would have performed in a real even-Steven contest. (Your tests were quite informative, and meaningful interpolative conjecture can certainly be done,... but conjecture is not the same thing as a test result, and it is too bad that this test project missed giving a definitive result by such a narrow margin. )



For want of a single nail the horsehoe of "as-close-as-possible" matching was lost, and the outcome of the battle will continue to be the subject of what should have been un-necessary debate among aficianados.



I suggest strong effort to nail-down the specs with the participants, if there is ever a "next time".



Ah, ... the joy of Monday-morning quarterbacking.

 

[craiggo]

Mike,

Welcome aboard. I really enjoyed reading your article as I was planning on doing some comparisons myself. In all honesty, I'm buying the Dodge for a variety of reasons (most of which you did not include in your testing).

One of the issues I was struggling with (as are others) is to purchase the 4. 10 on the Ram or go with 3. 73's. I think I'm going to go with the 3. 73 now but my question to you is: How differently do you think the Dodge would have performed with 3. 73 instead of the 4. 10's? If you were buying a Ram today, what would you get?

I understand you are not marketing the Ram's here, just looking for an educated opinion.

Thanks again.

Craig

 

[MLevine]

I suggest strong effort to nail-down the specs with the participants, if there is ever a "next time".

Ah, ... the joy of Monday-morning quarterbacking.

Agreed.

- Mike