Dodge or Ford?

[Joe Turbo Diesel]

My next truck!

The fuel Cackle and three pinion seals made be decide to buy a Dodge as my next truck(03 or 04). Ford has lost me as a customer. I hope that Dodge is better at customer service and quality than the other two. Joe

 

[Zacman]

Ford vs Dodge

Before settling on the Dodge Ram with Cummins the Fords did appeal to me. The simple reason is the same as all the other's have here at some time or other. You can get a crewcab. However there were two glaring reasons (actually three) that I opted to go with the Dodge. I test drove three F250 crewcabs all equipped pretty much the same..... swb autos. I liked the four real doors and the space but I did not like getting into tight parking lots. straight in parking with these long trucks is a near impossibility Most school parking lots are all like this. I work for a school district and in and out of them on a regular basis. The other glaring problem with ALL THREE PSD's were at freeway speeds. When you romped on the go pedal at 70mph nothing happened none of these trucks would get out of their own way. ALL the Cummins equipped Rams I drove would really get with it at those speeds. Also in my neighborhood there are four other Cummins equipped Rams. All of their owners swear by them.

 

[jarsong]

Was an Easy choice for me. DODGE. I was a Ford person. Now for the big reasons...



1) Cackle: Now that I'm familiar with what it sounds like and the behavior of it, more do it than you think. I'm pretty sure it's a fuel system engineering issue not a truck specific issue. Mean ALL could do it at some point in their life. Does it hurt the motor? Probably not. Is it annoying? VERY! This won't effect any engine life studies you may read, so to me whether they come from Cummins or IH they mean nothing. Like most of the people that drive these trucks, I won't keep it that long to test it.



2) Load carrying ability: You can read the GVW stickers all you want. I pretty sure they are more of a funtion of tires than Axles. I have yet to see a 98. 5+ Single rear wheel/Dual Rear wheel F350 with 3500lbs of camper in the box that didn't look like it needed air bags under it. That's if your older camper fit in the box to begin with and didn't need to be "Boosted" up with 2x4's. My Father in Law's 1986 F350 Crew Cab holds more weight, Really. My RAM 3500 doesn't touch the overloads until about 3600lbs or so. I'm guessing they could have left them off. Great part is the 2500/Cummins get the same rear springs so other than tires they are no different than mine.



3) I have 4 Powerstrokes in my Family/Friend circle and ALL have had "No Start" conditions with less than 50k on the odometer. One is an aid car. BUMMER! Some have been out in the pucker brush... . None have physically broken any "Hard Part" on their Powerstrokes. Near as I can tell my Dodge truck starts like a gasser down to 23 degrees.



4) 6 Speed shifting: I always ask six speed drivers how many times they killed their power stroke taking off. They all have been honest and said "a few". Is it possible to even kill a Dodge/Cummins taking off?



5) Automatic Transmission: Stock, it's very weak and has been that way for 12-13 years. The exception here would be the F450-F550's because of the lower gear ratio's (I'm guessing). The stock Dodge Automatic behind a stock Cummins actually does pretty well. Just do a search on this web site and see. If you BOMB, well that's a different story. The Cummins can produce some awesome torque. Come on Allison... .



6)The little things... Couldn't find a F series with all the tripmileage/temp/hourmeter/compass, you know fun stuff, unless it was a Lariat. Where is that darn swith to turn off the Passenger side air bag anyway? The 2000's quad cab front seat belt's are in the way of people getting in the back. What a tangled mess that is for a kicking 2 year old...



-------------------------------------------

Things I don't like about the Ram you ask?? Belive me it's not perfect...



1) No real crew cab.

2) Truck sits WAAAAAYYYY to high. (Sorry Gal's and Guy's)

3) Truck is WAAAAAYYYYY to noisy. (Sorry Gal's and Guy's)

4) Oil Filter on top of Motor. I understand why, but I still don't like it.

5) Stock Stereo: Mine a cassette with the CD changer/6 speaker. Sound quality is low in my ears opinion. Radio Delete option??

6) No rear Disk brake's on Early 2001's or 2000 "Special additions" whatever you want to call them.

Having said all of this, I still recommend going out and driving ALL of them and forming your own opinion about the trucks. I mean even the worst one you'll find, which ever one it will be, will be an awesome truck more than capaible of working.

 

[COBRAJET]

I don't buy the GVW comparison. The 4X2 Dodge 3500 is rated for 1K lbs less than the Ford. The 4x4 is 500lbs less. Both trucks run the same rearend and sized tires. Some variations of the F350 DRW carry a 12. 5K GVW... . 2K over the Dodge. The Dodge use to run 215's versus 235's... but 4 of those on the back and two upfront have a carrying capacity of over 16K lbs... . wasn't the tires. The difference is likely a weak frontend on the 4X2 Dodge. The 4X4's should be the same. My DRW 350 doesn't come near the overloads with 3K lbs in the bed. There is about 3/4 of an inch in there. Ford actually had to lower the rear ends on the 4x4 with a TSB on the early 99's because so many people were complaining that their 5th wheels would not hook up properly... ie not enough weight going on the rear producing a nose high trailer. They were simply too tall and had very heavy springs on them. They all come with 2" blocks on the back now instead of the original 4". Dodge still uses the 4" as they have since the truck was introduced. Either the truck is dropping just fine, or not enough people are buying one to produce a complaint.



The Dodge auto is by no mean superior to the Ford's. They both have garnered plenty of complaints. Keep in mind the Dodge ran 20-30HP and 80ftlbs less power through theirs until 2001. The engine was always detuned in the auto. Ford has never done that. Dodge will not sell you an H. 0. with an auto... . an engine with less power than a PSD with an auto. My 96PSD went 225K before the auto was rebuilt... it lost OD. The 99. 5 listed below received a BTS transmission and TC at 75K. The factory one was still working, but the TC was fried. ... but the power was no where near stock for the life of the truck.



My truck has never had the cackle. The local PSD meet draws about 30 trucks a month. One had the cackle and was fixed by Ford.



The airbag can be turned off in a regular and Supercab with a keyed switch... the Feds do not permit that in a CREWCAB... under 12 should ride in the back. There are no keyed switches in any true 4 door vehicles.



I like both trucks. I have had the Cummins long enough to have formed some complaints:



1. The power windows should be operational without turning the key to the run position. They should also work after the truck is turned off... until the doors are opened that is.



2. I do not like the radio... it is not near as good as the one in the PSD... it is the 6 speaker infinity



3. The cruise control switches should be lighted at night.



4. Where is the mirror on the driver's visor.



5. The cup holders are a joke... thanks to GENO's garage for their recent additon to the center console providing a real cup holder.



6. The service has been a joke... 4 tries from a 5 star to fix an oil leak.



7. The oil filter is a pain as mentioned above.



8. The stock headlights are marginal. Pia bulbs and Pia driving lights have corrected that... fixed the PSD that way as well..... CJ

 

[KatDiesel]

Originally posted by COBRAJET

1. The power windows should be operational without turning the key to the run position. They should also work after the truck is turned off... until the doors are opened that is.



2. I do not like the radio... it is not near as good as the one in the PSD... it is the 6 speaker infinity



3. The cruise control switches should be lighted at night.



4. Where is the mirror on the driver's visor.



5. The cup holders are a joke... thanks to GENO's garage for their recent additon to the center console providing a real cup holder.



6. The service has been a joke... 4 tries from a 5 star to fix an oil leak.



7. The oil filter is a pain as mentioned above.



8. The stock headlights are marginal. Pia bulbs and Pia driving lights have corrected that... fixed the PSD that way as well..... CJ

I agree with you on #1, there are some threads here that deal with making that type of modification, if ya truly want that then try looking up the threads.



#2 Radio was "Adequate" spent bout $1500 and upgraded it..... new head unit, 3 10" subs, amp, new door speakers. WOrks good now. . but not how I want it just yet.



#3 Guess that would be an idea... but prolly just be something else to "break" lol... just memorize which buttons are where?



#4 What interior package you have? I have a lighted vanaity mirror on both driver and passenger side.



#5 Haven't had to deal with this due to mine being Auto... those cup holders work great... can hold 2 Route 44's from Sonic.



#6 Service... ... . we won't go there. I have recieved "adequate" service.



#7 Never had any problem with my oil fiter change... strap wrench and a lil muscle comes right off.



#8 They work ok for me here in NE.



Don't get me wrong here, not trying to disprove your points, just giving you my experiences on the same subjects. Always enjoy reading your posts CJ... ...

 

[jarsong]

Good Post CJ... I do have the vanity mirrors on both sides and they both have dimmer switches. Remember GVW doesn't mean more payload. In the case of our trucks it just means the truck is heavier. My Father in laws 86 F350 is about 6200lbs with a 10KGVW. My Truck is 7300lbs with an 11K GVW. Gain anything? No. Might have even gone backwards a little. I'll tell you this though seeing is believing. As near as I can tell the spring packs are the same on single rear and dually on Fords. What is the CAMPER rating on a your truck? Mine is 2772LBS. It should be in your glove box. I don't know where they get this number??? Do you?? With my 11. 5 Lance I’m actually legally overloaded. Also 5th wheel weight is different than a camper, unless it’s a monster 5th wheel. Tongue weight from 19' boats and small trailers don't make my truck squat at all. Found this out while figuring ball height and trying to compensate for a load. With our trucks you want your ball height to start where you want to finish because it isn't going to move unless you have one big trailer. I just had about 2400lbs of hay in the truck; the back lowered about 1. 5-2”.

My truck has the 235's all the way around and they came almost flat from DC. If you have an E4OD that went 225K before it was rebuilt it that's great. I come from a Transmission family (Both sides) I know their failure rate. Some make it but way to many don't. I don’t like to shift but I do know statistics. As far as cackle goes I believe Lux from the Ford site. I have followed his research for well over a year now. I believe he has the fix. Just because your truck doesn't Cackle today, who know for tomorrow? It’s too big of a risk for me at $$35-40K a pop. A Cackling/knocking Powerstroke isn’t worth very much. Most people will just drive it and live with the defect that causes poor performance and mileage. As far as HP/Torque figures go. When I ordered my ETH last year I drove every combination from Ford and Dodge. I couldn’t find a Chevy diesel anywhere new so they lost out in the race. I don’t care what the sales flyers say the Cummins felt stronger in every case (Not near as smooth though). The fit and finish on the Ram trucks I felt were better and I saved thousands of dollars to boot. The inside of the dually fenders on the F350 looked like someone got a hold of a can of black spray paint and went crazy. You could shake the bottom of the fenders a ¼”. Mine are rock solid, and neatly trimmed underneath. (Not as nice as the 2500’s though) In shutting the doors, the ram felt SOLID. My head lights seem to work great, but I like the looks of the sport better. Did you know you can’t lock the key’s in your Ram while they are in the ignition? It disables the door locks switches and remote entry. Ever leave your dome light on? They turn off after a short while. My doors lock themselves after 15 MPH to keep the wife and kids safe. If it’s annoying you can disable it. When someone’s lights are bright my rear view mirror it dims itself. Pretty cool. I can’t remember if the Fords do these little things. As far as bad service from dealers, well I feel odds are I’ll have less of a chance to test that on serious issue's. CJ, I do enjoy reading your posts. Keep’em coming. The good thing is because of all the competition we have stronger truck today than from years past.

Jarrett

 

[WOWZY]

I haven't had the need for having the windows work with the switch off, but it would be nice if I ever needed it.



I didn't notice any difference in the radio in my Cummins and the one in the PSD that I was driving but that's usually one of the last things that I compare. I always forget about that one.



I've gotten used to the cruise control location so that hasn't been a problem.



What color is your interior CJ? If I ever wreck my truck I'll give you my Left vanity visor. I use mine as a registration holder as opposed to taking a chance of my ugly mug breaking the mirror.



I don't use my cup holders very much but the one from Geno's may be my next purchase.



I've been one of the few that have gotten excellent service from my dealer. But that's been just oil changes. We will see how good they are if I have a problem with my truck and have to get it serviced.



I don't know why DC puts the dogone filter on so tight from the factory. The rest of the oil changes have been easy with the help of a Zip-Loc bag and no mess.



The stock headlights are a JOKE!!. I drove it the first night and replaced them the next day w/ some Cool Blues. That help some.

 

[swamp rat]

If you like the T2000 KW, you gotta like the Dodge Ram CTD. Afterall, the T2000 is akin to a Dodge Ram on steroids.

 

[COBRAJET]

The truck is a Laramie SLT with mist grey interior. I think the drivers visor mirror left on the 2001. 5's. The PSD camper cert is around 3K lbs. They figure this by taking the 11. 5GVW and deducting the empty weight of 7600lbs. They also allow 600lbs for passengers and gear and a little for fuel. This leaves around 3K lbs. The DRW PSD has two more bottom leafs than the SRW. The spring codes are different on the door tags. Both can be had with the helpers but the DRW still gets two more on the bottom. The trailering issues on the early PSD's involved fifth wheels not conventional trailers. They were simply to tall and stiff for the majority of the trailers. Conventional trailering can usually be corrected with height adjustments. The fivers are not as forgiving since bed and trailer clearance issues are a major concern My 37ft fiver puts on about 2. 4K lbs of pin weight. The truck drops about a half inch from touching the helpers. I have 6. 5 inches of clearance. I had the same trailer on the Cummins and it settled just on the helpers with almost 8 inches of clearance. It towed it great, but the stability of a SRW is no match for DRW. The trailer will always be behind the PSD since it is a DRW and it has the CREWCAB for the family. I hope to consolidate to one truck in 2003. I will buy the best combo out there with a RAM emblem or a BLUE OVAL.



The PSD's are equipped almost the same as the Cummins. I wish the PSD had the radio controls on the steering wheel like my Cummins. The oil filter is a pain on the Cummins since oil gets dumped on the suspension. I will use the baggy idea from now on. I really enjoy both trucks. I have put at least 1K miles a day on each on at a time without any back complaints.



Fit and finish is a toss up. The Ford has a rear door rattle after 76K miles the Cummins has a dash rattle. I think the paint is better on the PSD. I have seen a lot of silver Dodges that the paint looks way to thin on down the side. The AC fan blows harder in the PSD... . a plus here in TX. The seatbelts are a plus in the Cummins versus the PSD SuperCab. It is not an issue for me with a crewcab. The Cummins with the 4 wheel disc has a great brake pedal. I love the brakes, but the truck is 3K lighter than my PSD with the same brakes. I can live just fine with either... its the DMAX that I just could not warm up to in the least... . CJ

 

[jarsong]

I hear you on the DMAX... Time will tell. I do however welcome the competition. Interesting note on your spring height with your 5th wheel hooked up. My lance is sitting on the truck right now at about 3300lbs (No Water yet and half the luggage) and there is still 1" or so between the overloads and the snubbers. That would mean they have changed springs or something on the 01. 5's. I drove it around Tuesday night so I know it's "Settled". Sound like I need to investigate. I just went out to my truck and looked again. 1. 25" between snubbers and overloads. My upper overload spring pack has #52106402AD on it and the bottom pack has RASSINI #017AG. I wonder if the springs are the same on Single rear wheel Rams with the camper package. Build date was 3/00. I think it's great you have both. You can objectivley contribute to the Goods/Bads... .

Jarrett

 

[COBRAJET]

jarsong,

I really think your springs are different on your 3500 than they are on my 2500. My bottom spring pack is numbered 018AG. The top is the same as yours. My bottom pack is only 4 leafs. My PSD DRW has 5 on the bottom with the bottom one being over a half inch thick. Your Dodge likely has 5 as well on the bottom.

On the Dodge there is about 1. 5 inches between the helper and the pad at the front and 2 inches on the back. This is with about 500 lbs in the bed. The PSD DRW has about 3 in the front and 4 at the back pad with the same weight. The trucks are going down the same amount, the PSD is just starting out with more distance between the pads and the helper. I think your 3500 is doing the same thing. Mine was built 2/01 in the good ole USA... . CJ

 

[Rockcrusher]

Power What?

My son in law just learned a lesson the hard way. Bought one of those so called "Super Duty" F--ds for his business and it has spent more time in the garage than on the road. Oops, I forgot the miles behind the tow truck.

The dealer cant figuere out the 'no start, no run' problem.

Ford and quality. Is that an oxy-moron?

All they want to do is have him change oil every 2000 miles with their super high dollar "special" oil because the oil operates the injectors. So what?!

Interesting how most other diesels use any quality brand 15/40.

I read a similar con job in Good Sams 'Highway' magazine.

My old Dodge might be ugly, but it just keeps running.

 

[beartrace]

In Sept 2000 my wife and I had driven the Ford PSD about 3 times. I had a $2500 rebate from a Ford credit card to use on the purchase. I was ready to buy the PSD and I said to my wife just for the fun of it lets take a quick look at the Dodge. We drove the RAM Diesel about 10 miles and my wife looked at me and said "Thank goodness we stopped here, we almost made a terrible mistake". The Cummins engine, the styling, the interior, and the handling were all superior to the PSD. We placed an order for the RAM the next day. I have never been disappointed in the purchase. It has only gotten better since I found the TDR.