Dodge or GMC?

[Jim Ross]

We are contemplating replacing our 2001 Dodge Cummins with a 2009 GMC Duramax or a 2010 Dodge Cummins.

I have done some reading about the emissions systems on the 6. 7 Cummins, but what does the Duramax use for its emission equipment and how does it compare to the Cummins in terms of problems/maintenance?

With either truck we are thinking of a 3500 4WD regular cab, bed delete and then add a flat bed (probably a Bradford).

 

[Grizzly]

That's a no brainier. Does the GMC have a Cummins? No, then go with the Dodge. End of discussion.



If you're going to delete the bed, consider a 3500 Cab & Chassis.

 

[Simplysmn]

Jim I would say stick with the motor that is proven Cummin's If you look at chevy or GMC how many design's have they gone through in the last 5 yr's {Several } and everyone has had major troubles and there still trying to get it right . Now if you look at Cummin's there has been 4 and then they came out with the 6. 7 All have been very Proven motor's the only thing you hear on the dodge truck's is emission;s junk but most if not all has been fixed . Your best bet is to go drive a new Dodge with the 6 sp auto I think after you do you will see Dodge will be your best choice

 

[Jim Ross]

I am leaning towards staying with the Cummins, but all the problems with the emissions junk has me concerned. Duramax is much improved over the last couple of years, but I am not educated about its emission stuff, yet.
A friend recently bought a new Chevy 2500 WD with the gas engine. I think it is way under powered for towing 5th wheel trailers, but one thing I do like about the truck is the beefiness of the door hinges, hood hinges, body mounts, etc..... it is way better than what I see on my 2001 Dodge.
I need to find out how the 2008 and 2009 Duramax emission stuff works and if they are having any issues with it. I will not be buying a 2010(or 2011 or whatever they will call it) with the urea system..... and a first year Ford is out of the question. We just traded off our 2000 Power Stroke... . every 6 months there was some $200 sensor that failed... and it only had 56K miles on it.
We pull a 27 ft Arctic Fox and while our current 2001 is "OK" doing this, it is nearing 10 yrs old and is only about 290-300HP. I guess there are all kinds of trade-offs... . the current '01 gets decent mileage and is fun to drive when not towing, but with 123K miles, I know we will have to begin putting $$$ into it.

 

[MChrist]

True, you will start to put some money into it, like hubs, or whatever... but how much will that cost versus the depreciation of buying a new truck?
If you are strictly considering "bang for the buck", then stay with your truck. If you just want a new truck "just because"... then I would go for the Cab and Chassis Dodge w/6 speed auto. You can't lose either way.

 

[Jim Ross]

so, back to the original question... .

what kind of emission sysytem does the '08/'09 Duramax have and are there issues with it?

we would like to go with a 3500 truck this time around. the 2500 has been "OK" are a tow rig, but a 3500 would do a better job for us.

 

[firemansdiesel]

Jump on Diesel Place - Duramax Diesel Discussion Forums if you haven't already. Lots of info there your looking for on the GM Duramax.

 

[jgillott]

Jim, our fleet at work consists mostly of medium duty Internationals and a few Freightliners. Recently, they have added several light duty van bodies on 1-ton 2x4 GMC's. I'm not in them often, but so far, I believe that they have been fairly good. The one I was in the other week (a 2008 I believe) had just over 136K on it. I would expect that the others we have are around the same mileage. I'll ask one of our mechanics when I go in tomorrow if they have any comments about them, but I haven't heard of anything major that I can think of.



I'm sure that someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe a common thread with the emissions related issues in all of the brands came first in trucks that weren't worked hard and/or were low mileage units. I understand that many of those problems have been eliminated with the updates that have been issued. I'm not sure exactly how you plan on using your new truck, but that may be something to consider before you purchase anything.

 

[Jim Ross]

With a flatbed, regular cab and 4WD, I anticipate using this truck a few times each year to pull our 27ft 5th wheel plus a few times hauling 1 or 2 ATV's on the flatbed, plus pulling a 19ft enclosed trailer a few times. Other than that, it might see occasional use driving into town... mainly just to keep it from sitting all week if we aren't really "using" it.
I love driving the full sized rigs, but for most of my hunting, off-road use or daily driving, I use our '94 Toyota 4WD pickup. It isn't real comfortable, but it gets the job done and a pin stripe from sagebrush doesn't bother me on this old truck.
I appreciate your comments and look forward to hearing what your mechanics have to say.

 

[Grizzly]

I am leaning towards staying with the Cummins, but all the problems with the emissions junk has me concerned. Duramax is much improved over the last couple of years, but I am not educated about its emission stuff, yet.

A friend recently bought a new Chevy 2500 WD with the gas engine. I think it is way under powered for towing 5th wheel trailers, but one thing I do like about the truck is the beefiness of the door hinges, hood hinges, body mounts, etc..... it is way better than what I see on my 2001 Dodge.

I need to find out how the 2008 and 2009 Duramax emission stuff works and if they are having any issues with it. I will not be buying a 2010(or 2011 or whatever they will call it) with the urea system..... and a first year Ford is out of the question. We just traded off our 2000 Power Stroke... . every 6 months there was some $200 sensor that failed... and it only had 56K miles on it.

We pull a 27 ft Arctic Fox and while our current 2001 is "OK" doing this, it is nearing 10 yrs old and is only about 290-300HP. I guess there are all kinds of trade-offs... . the current '01 gets decent mileage and is fun to drive when not towing, but with 123K miles, I know we will have to begin putting $$$ into it.

Only 123K miles on your 01? Your just breaking it in. That engine's good for another 377K or more. Might be worth keeping and fix what needs to be fixed, unless you really want a new truck.

 

[Jim Ross]

I guess it is a bit of the 'unknown' that concerns me about the '01..... like when will it need a major trans overhaul, replace the hubs, when will the a/c evaporator go out again(for the 4th time)? Stuff like that never happens at a convenient time.
I know the engine is good for at least 300K and the trans has some upgrades (Sun Coast TC, Sun Coast valve body, BD pressure lock, etc plus it has had synthetic ATF since 5K miles, but still it is nearing 10 yrs old...

 

[jelag]

Go find a city or county motor pool that has a group of these trucks. . and talk to the guys who fix them... if that doesn't convince you to by the dodge by the GMC... . then you'll learn on your own. .

 

[Jim Ross]

Good idea, I'm not in a location where the local gov't is very large, but I'll look around... maybe if one of the cities 80 miles away might have a real fleet to look over.
Off the topic, but how many miles are on your Gold Wing? I have an awesome '98 Valkyrie that is all tricked out..... with 52K on it.

 

[TFucili]

I have a friend who was a service manager at a GM store for 29 years. He is currently looking for a CTD to tow with. Does that give you a clue? While I have certainly been disappointed with a few things on my '05, like ball joints at under 40K miles, it has been a good rig. On the other hand, every GM truck I have owned was nothing short of a disaster. The last one ended in a lemon law suit. "We report... you decide":-laf

 

[RVTRKN]

Jim, the one difference I have not read yet, is the fact the DMAX runs hot all the time. The clutch fan runs constantly and thats with 65* ambient temps with my 05 D/A service truck. It would be completely warmed up in less than one mile with a few minutes of warmup. It is well known by DMAX owners, and was a real problem until they increased the cooling capacity, note that they didn't fix the problem, just increased the capacity. I see your from NV and that would be a major concern of mine. I'm at Lake Mead a lot and using my high idle keeps the cab and company cool while I prep the boat in 115* heat, and pull a 22K GCVW 5ver getting there. I would never try that with a DMAX.

 

[mwilson]

Guys, correct me if I am wrong and I am not where my resources are right now, but for 2010 isn't the Cummins the only one of the big three that DOES NOT NEED a urea tank??? That would do it for me right there... ... ... In other words the 2010 Dodge / Cummins met the emissions standards in 2007 when the 6. 7 engine was introduced. That means that they are 3 years ahead of the rest of them in terms of reliability and technology. Oo.



The hardware on the Dodge may not be quite as good as GM but when it is out of warranty the parts are reasonable for the most part, they have the easiest door panel removal process in the industry and you can get to (SEE) the engine to have it repaired. Talk to some techs and see what they think when they open the hood of a Dodge versus a GM. I do 99% of my own work and can not imagine trying to do underhood repairs on a Duramax or a Powerstroke. No way... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

Ball joints and steering are weak points but GM has issues with front ends as well. As soon as Carli and a few others get the lower ball joints figured out and readily available then that problem will be gone with the first replacement.



If you don't do your own repairs that is even more important as it will take a lot less coin for labor on a vehicle that the techs can work on easily.



Just a few of my thoughts for you. Take your time and do the research.

Good luck with whatever you decide on.

 

[Jim Ross]

Thanks a bunch for the info on the hot running situation! Up in northern NV (and in southern ID) where we are, we don't often see 100 degrees, 90 is common though. This morning it is 17! Yep, that's right, 17, but it is sunny for a change!

I guess I am getting more and more grumpy in my old age, but it seems to me that ALL the new trucks are just warmed-over cars..... they are tinny and plastic and not really made for real work on a farm or construction site. One trip into a picked corn field or into the sage brush and BINGO! you have $2000 worth of damage to the tin foil/plastic front end. OK, I'm done with my rant. I have Ruenel bumpers on my '01, I call the front one "my Ford deflector".

Our experience with Ford's 7. 3 diesel was not very good, so we are not considering a new Ford.

In looking at my friend's new Chevy (with gas engine), I am impressed by the build quality and the over-all beefiness of the door hinges, hood hinges, and body mounts... stuff like that..... it is much better than what my '01 Dodge has. I admit, that I have not seen a regular cab 2010 Dodge, no one seems to have any on their lots, everything we have seen is some version of a 4 door cab..... , but I am looking forward to seeing a regular cab in person.

I have read that soot removal in the turbo is a regular maintenance issue with the 6. 7 Cummins... . is that fact or fiction? If it is fact, how big a deal is it?

 

[Simplysmn]

I have never had any problem's with soot and I am working on 68,000 miles . I know some of the early truck's had problem's but haven't heard anything lately

 

[Jim Ross]

Thanks for sharing your experience with the soot issue... . sounds like it is a non-issue!
There is an open house this evening at the local GMC dealer, so we are going to attend and I will get to ask some questions... . IF there are any mechanics or tech guys there. The local Dodge guys still have no regular cab models to look at.
In an earlier post, someone suggested that we consider a cab-chassis model instead of a 3500 pickup... ... it is my understanding that the 2010 cab-chassis models have the urea injection system... . something I would like to avoid plus we would be looking at SRW and I "think" the 3500 cab-chassis is DWR only... . am I wrong on these points?

 

[jgillott]

Well, I asked they guys in the garage this morning and I really have nothing major to report to you Jim. The most common repairs apparently are non engine/trans related stuff like axle seals, brakes, universal joints etc. Pretty common with fleet trucks with multiple drivers. Apparently there are 6 of them there and they are all 2009's. Take it for what it's worth, but they claim that they haven't been down for anything major. And with the mileage they have on them already, I would guess that to be farily accurate. Sorry I couldn't give you anything more specific about them, but the guys I talked to claim that they have been pretty much issue free. I did ask about the emissions equipment and apparently aside from a few warning lights now and again, there hasn't been anything major to report.



If there is any specific question that you can think of, I'd be happy to ask for you in the morning.