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Dodge ram 4 wheel drive operations

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I am confused. I have researched this but only find more possible variations and questions instead of straight answers. Can some one concisely explain how our 3rd gen 4 wheel drive systems work as far as what tires are operating under what conditions and how lockers change any of that? Last I heard today was that if I had the front and rear wheels on either the left or right side on ice... I could in effect have no wheels pulling anymore. Huh?!



Just what goes on with the drive train in 4 hi and 4 lo as far as torque application and power sharing and again, how does adding lockers change that?



I got this truck for driving in snow and ice and have been told that 4 wheel drive reacts different in both those situations independently.



I have the factory "Anti-spin Differential Rear Axle" for what it is worth.



Thanks for any insight and/or enlightenment anyone can share!
 
This has been discussed in detail so do a search on lockers and you’ll find lots more info.



This video for the GM G80 locker shows examples of the different combinations in action.

Sales demo: YouTube - 20% grade G80



I would like to see the Ram and Ford try the hill with a some brake application. Notice how the last example, the Chevy, has the brakes on until the locker engages?



For your factory limited slip see the bold text below:
owners manual said:
On slippery surfaces, however, the differential delivers more of

the driving effort to the rear wheel having the better

traction.



The limited-slip differential is especially helpful during

slippery driving conditions. With both rear wheels on a

slippery surface, a slight application of the accelerator

will supply maximum traction. When starting with only

one rear wheel on an excessively slippery surface, slight

momentary application of the parking brake may be

necessary to gain maximum traction.
 
I witnessed part of a 4x4 training course - and the instructor mentioned something that caught me off guard: most 4 wheel drives aren't 4 wheel drives at all! (Goes to show you how much I knew at the time. )

For example, in nearly every All Wheel Drive vehicle (the ones where you can't select 2WD) exists the "soccer mom 4wd" that is very effective for slippery surfaces that you would encounter on the occasional ski or camping trip, but can quickly disappoint you on a trail. There is a good reason for this: the transfer case needs to enable the front axle to operate at a different speed than the rear axle (for sharp turns) without damaging the transfer case. It also shocked me to learn that Jeep was using this technology in their newer Grand Cherokees (boy was I disappointed, because I love my 88 that has a selectable full or part time option. )

It boils down to two main types: Full Time 4WD and Part Time 4WD. These translate to "Full time road operation" and "Part of the time road operation. " With the Part Time, you should not make any sharp turns on dry concrete due to damage to the transfer case. Our trucks use PART TIME transfer cases. Here are the differences:

FULL TIME - the transfer case allows slippage, which is good for on road use when conditions get a little freaky and you don't want to worry about drivetrain damage. However, you will not get maximum traction off road because you can have a condition where either only your front axle or rear axle are spinning. If you have Open Differentials there is still the possibility that you can have only ONE tire spinning. If you have Limited slip differentials then you'll have one tire spinning up until the limited slip kicks in, then you can have a condition where you have 2 tires spinning on the same axle. If you have lockers, you will always at least have 2 tires spinning on the same axle.

PART TIME - Is like putting a locker in the T-Case (sometimes called the Center Differential. ) With Open Differentials, you get at least 2 wheels spinning, but on different axles. With LimitedSlip, you'll start with 2 and maybe end up with 3 or more. If you have lockers, you have the ultimate configuration - you can guarantee all 4 wheels will transfer power to the ground. I read this is not the ultimate configuration for snow and ice however - but more for extreme terrain where the vehicle will be placed at different angles.

For wheeling, in my experience with my Dodge the limited slip is quite poor. It hurts the ego a bit to watch Ford and Chevy's (bone stock) getting through obstacles (simple example: back up a hill on wet grass in 2WD) I have to really strategize my path. I have been in a 2WD condition where one wheel had nearly no weight on it. Having the e-brake all the way to the floor still wasn't enough to get power to the other tire. However, if both tires have contact, it won't hesitate to spin both tires under load. With AAM axles at least, I'm not yet aware of a locker option yet.

Don't get me wrong though, the design of the limited slip is extremely good and strong - which is probably the best solution for such a heavy duty axle. I know the new powerwagon has electronic lockers, but at the time I was shopping they didn't have a diesel option haha. You may be able to swap out the axles if you can find one - but I think they only came with the 10. 5" axle - which I wouldn't recommend behind the diesel without some work. Power Wagon Registry

However the 9. 5's seem the same hmmmm.....

So yes - even with 4WD, there's still the possibility of 1WD haha
 
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So, if i'm understanding you guys correctly, you could easily get yourself in a bad situation in a 4x4 ram like mine if you were out in the middle of nowhere and came across an incline with ice/snow/mud only on one side of the incline right? We would have to have the lockers to negotiate an incline such as the one I named? If this is the case, I'm kind of disappointed because I was under that common misconception that 4x4 applies the torque to the wheel that needs it the most, and feel somewhat lucky I haven't found myself in the situation I mentioned with as much off roading as i've done in the mountains.
 
Even with a locker you would be in trouble with what you laid-out. The best bet is to go in pairs when you are going off-roading
 
Even with a locker you would be in trouble with what you laid-out. The best bet is to go in pairs when you are going off-roading



Definitely agree with you about going in pairs. I guess I should have explained my hypothetical situation better. I'm talking about ice/snow/mud only on one side of the incline, i. e. either driver's or passenger's side, just like in the youtube video where the rollers are only on one side. It seems like if you had a locker, it would be simple to negotiate the grade because both tires on the opposite side would have plenty of traction. I guess I just didn't realize that our 4x4 systems in their stock form were so inadequate as to not be able to handle such a simple situation.
 
Definitely agree with you about going in pairs. I guess I should have explained my hypothetical situation better. I'm talking about ice/snow/mud only on one side of the incline, i. e. either driver's or passenger's side, just like in the youtube video where the rollers are only on one side. It seems like if you had a locker, it would be simple to negotiate the grade because both tires on the opposite side would have plenty of traction. I guess I just didn't realize that our 4x4 systems in their stock form were so inadequate as to not be able to handle such a simple situation.



Unless you by a Power Wagon or jeep with lockers all of the 4x4 systems have limitations, you need to know what they are and how to drive with them.
 
Definitely agree with you about going in pairs. I guess I should have explained my hypothetical situation better. I'm talking about ice/snow/mud only on one side of the incline, i. e. either driver's or passenger's side, just like in the youtube video where the rollers are only on one side. It seems like if you had a locker, it would be simple to negotiate the grade because both tires on the opposite side would have plenty of traction. I guess I just didn't realize that our 4x4 systems in their stock form were so inadequate as to not be able to handle such a simple situation.





The stock system that come with the trucks are fine for what the design for. If you feel the need for a rock cralwer or mudder ie more off-road than you need to either build one or buy one that meets your requirements of going off road. But there is a down side for that when you start driving everyday your tires will wear faster compare to a stock setup. One of the other thngs you should take into the design is how heavy the engine is.
 
Is anyone making a selectable locker for the back of our trucks yet? Ideally acts as a limited slip when open and then fully locked



Andy
 
So, if i'm understanding you guys correctly, you could easily get yourself in a bad situation in a 4x4 ram like mine if you were out in the middle of nowhere and came across an incline with ice/snow/mud only on one side of the incline right? We would have to have the lockers to negotiate an incline such as the one I named?

Seems like it would be best to choose a different route, in that case. Having said that, I will disagree with 99% of the people around here and say that the limited slip (torque biasing differential, really) in these trucks is effective in this situation if you use it properly.

The torque biasing differential transfers some torque from a slipping wheel to a non-slipping wheel according to a fixed constant of proportionality. We all know anything multiplied by 0 is, well, 0. So if one wheel is on a perfectly slippery surface and has 0 torque, the opposite wheel won't get any either.

That's why the owners manual tells you to apply some parking brake if one wheel is on a very slick surface. I have carried out this test deliberately, and was able to pull out with no trouble.

The best thing you can do is practice it yourself in a controlled environment so that when it happens accidentally you'll be prepared.

Ryan
 
There are applications in the Jeep line up that are sold with open diffs but the computer is applying brake pressure at the slipping wheel-poor mans locker powered by computer :-laf

Who knows maybe they will be added to the hd line up some day



Esp may be on the 2010 HDs that can do the trick in many slippery situations as long as you don't need full torque
 
From my years of wheeling in Land Cruisers to Land Rovers and everything in between if you want to go in snow and ice and mud you need to chain up. I have a set from Iceland where they use them for ice racing they have giant spikes on them and when strapped on the truck is unstoppable up or down any hill. I was buried up to my running boards in gooey greasy mud, Some how I managed to get chains on and road out like nothing.
 
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