Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Dodgezilla or htb2?

[jgillott]

My DZ lights off at the slightest throttle movement & the boost literally shoots up in relation to the throttle movement. I really think the CaTCHER program has something to do with that.

I completely agree. . With the DZ, Marco's ECM, and DD Super Mentals, my truck is incredibly responsive. I absolutely love that combo on the street. The DZ is coming off in favor of a full B1 and much larger injectors for the summer. Unless the new combo I have going on has some hidden surprise, I know that it will lack the overall quality of package for street/daily driving that I have now. Like darkhorse said, in my application, I couldn't be happier.

 

[PC12Driver]

Yup, as I suspected, we're talking about two different realms of operation. Throttle response is one thing, but constant speed towing with a lot of drag is something completely different.



Excess fuel can make any turbo spool quickly. How they behave when the excess fuel isn't being used is something totally different.



AHire, yes the HTB2 can handle more HP than the DZ. As I mentioned above, the HTB2 is at least 100* cooler than my DZ, and has plenty more useable boost available than what I'm currently wastegated at.

 

[Rman]

I'd have to agree with PC12, unloaded trucks and loaded trucks behave VERY differently. I need a turbo that can help me haul loads, being quick around the streets is just a bonus as far as I'm concerned. Waiting for that thing to spool with a load hooked is certainly no fun.

 

[darkhorse]

Granted I rarely tow over 7k but under no conditions do I have any turbo lag.

 

[Hohn]

Think about this with hybrid turbos:

A larger compressor takes more energy to drive (spin). Where does this energy come from? The turbine! A larger turbine is better at extracting more energy to drive the larger compressor.

When you just swap in a larger compressor to a tiny turbine-- like the DZ does--, you are asking the turbine to provide more energy than it is designed for, and it often becomes very inefficient. Then, as boost pressures rise (and hence, the amount of energy the compressor is demanding from the turbine), the turbine rapidly falls out of its efficiency range and becomes very restrictive.

Then, you end up with a LOT of drive pressure relative to boost-- not good.


The BW-Schwitzer units have a huge advantage over the Holset units on the turbine side, both in size and efficiency.


I'd suggest the HTB2 over the DZ if you can afford it. The DZ is sort of a bandaid stopgap.

 

[darkhorse]

Sometimes all one needs is a bandaid.

 

[Todd F]

dammit! I want an htb2 right now..... :{ , maybe in a month or two when the funding permits

 

[Got Smoke?]

Ahire I'm running a HTB2 64/14 on my truck and I love it! With a 5spd, 3. 55 gears, and 35" tires it still spooled as quickly as my HX35/14WG'd.



Not being very 24V knowledgable though with a TST & Mach 4's I'd say you will be severly overfueled. The Mach 4's might even get a little hot alone towing those tractors. You might be ok with the TST all the way down, but this is just me guessing here. I'm sure someone with F1 series injectors will jump in a correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Milo Pig]

How is the HTB2 compared to the Phat Shafts?



Sean

 

[Boondocker]

I love my Jacobs exhaust brake, use it almost daily. Call me silly, but when towing, I consider going downhill every bit as important as going uphill. I consider towing (17-18 K gross) without an exhaust brake to be a handicap.



That being said, I drive by the pyro when towing because my stock HX35 isn't quite up to the task with non-stock fueling. I like the HTB2, but know it's not compatible with my exhaust elbow mounted brake. It would be pretty darned expensive to get a BD brake and HTB2. If the Dodgezilla is a bandaid, are there better options, or does the restrictive elbow make it all a mute point? How 'bout the Phat Shaft 62? I don't know if that would fit either, my turbo knowledge is weak.



Water/Meth injection?



Thanks,

Neil

 

[Froadin]

Boondocker, I am in the same boat as you are. With almost the same mods.

My next bomb is going to be a Helix 2 cam (shortly followed by a 12v lift pump).

Not entirely sure what turbo to get though, debating between a DZ, HTT has a hybrid, and I heard that II is working on a hybrid.

There is just no way I will tow without an exhaust brake again. I have enough power for almost everything I tow, but I would really like to get my EGTs down into a safer level while USING all of the power.

 

[Boondocker]

I guess that I should point out that my main objective is EGT decrease while towing. Eventually, I may want to upgrade from M1. 6 to M4, if I can flow the air to support it.

 

[NoSeeUm]

I am starting to wonder how much market would be out there for the manufacture of a non-stock turbine outlet adaptor. The idea being to allow running a turbine casing mounted E-Brake that is designed to mount on the Holset.



Probably, as with all easy ideas, not really that easy to accomplish cheaply?

 

[Froadin]

JFaries, The problem with that is the small elbow on these Ebrakes. Upgrading the turbo is almost a waste when you still have to force it all through the smaller elbow.



I am just wondering, will the 3rd gen exhaust brake elbow work in place of my current Ebrake if I get a newer/larger turbo? I have a Jacobs on both of my trucks, but don't know what it would take to make this kind of swap.

 

[darkhorse]

JFaries, The problem with that is the small elbow on these Ebrakes. Upgrading the turbo is almost a waste when you still have to force it all through the smaller elbow.



I am just wondering, will the 3rd gen exhaust brake elbow work in place of my current Ebrake if I get a newer/larger turbo? I have a Jacobs on both of my trucks, but don't know what it would take to make this kind of swap.

As far as I can tell, the Banks Brake has the largest cross section & smoothest flow of any of the turbo mounted brakes. If a larger turbo is desired, an in line brake under the cab, would be the way to go.

 

[Froadin]

Darkhorse, your saying the Bank brake is bigger then the Jacob's brake on my 2005? That thing looks like a real 4" brake, and I heard I can upgrade to the phat shaft turbo on that truck and still keep the brake.

 

[darkhorse]

Darkhorse, your saying the Bank brake is bigger then the Jacob's brake on my 2005? That thing looks like a real 4" brake, and I heard I can upgrade to the phat shaft turbo on that truck and still keep the brake.

I don't have a Jacobs brake to measure but judging by the photos I've seen, it's the same size as the stock exhaust elbow that comes with the HX 35. I did some measuring last night & found the outlet on the HX 35 is 2 9/16". The inlet of the stock elbow is 2 3/8". (that's 3/16" smaller that the turbine outlet ) The outlet is 2 11/16". The Banks Brake inlet matches the HX 35 outlet & it tapers smoothly for about 8" to the outlet at 4" which matches the 4" down pipe. No abrupt changes is cross section & a larger passage for wastegate gasses have got to help improve flow. As far as I know, the Phat Shaft turbos use an HW 40 style outlet so you would need an in line type exhaust brake for them.

 

[Froadin]

Darkhorse, Sorry about that, I completely didn't clarify myself. I know and agree with you on the jacobs brake on my 2001 truck. I KNOW it's a restriction. One I would like to find a way around.

What I didn't specify was that on my 2005 truck, the exhaust brake uses a 4" elbow. It isn't even remotely close to the exhaust brake on my 2001.

My question was, can I just get the actuator from the newer model jacobs (like what is on my 2005), and put it on my 2001 truck with a larger turbo like the phat shaft.

I am pretty sure that I read someone swapping out a larger turbo on the newer engines and keeping the newer jacobs Ebrake.

 

[darkhorse]

Oops, I completely overlooked that you were talking about your 3rd gen truck. I'm not familiar with them.