Does DEF Freeze?

[BIGNASTY]

We have a piece of equipment that needs the use of DEF, I went to get some and was reading on the box about storage and handling of the DEF. I have a book that I got from work that has the Material Data Safety Sheets for just about any liquid known to man. Nothing on the box that the DEF came in said ANYTHING about cold temp, my book said that it would start to solidify at -11f, it gets colder than that here, does the equipment have a heater or is the tank that well insulated. What does the Dodge have?



Thanks

BIG

 

[mwilson]

We have a piece of equipment that needs the use of DEF, I went to get some and was reading on the box about storage and handling of the DEF. I have a book that I got from work that has the Material Data Safety Sheets for just about any liquid known to man. Nothing on the box that the DEF came in said ANYTHING about cold temp, my book said that it would start to solidify at -11f, it gets colder than that here, does the equipment have a heater or is the tank that well insulated. What does the Dodge have?



Thanks

BIG

The tank and lines are heated, either with battery voltage or heat exchanged from the engine coolant. Big trucks can go about 70 miles with frozen DEF in the tank before derating. The assumption is that it will thaw and flow within that amount of time with all systems working as intended.

It has not been an issue up here, BTW.



Mike.

 

[BIGNASTY]

The tank and lines are heated, either with battery voltage or heat exchanged from the engine coolant. Big trucks can go about 70 miles with frozen DEF in the tank before derating. The assumption is that it will thaw and flow within that amount of time with all systems working as intended.
It has not been an issue up here, BTW.

Mike.

So at engine off time there would be a parasitic battery draw? I can understand after the truck gets up and running.


Read it one more time and I understand now thanks Mike

BIG

 

[mwilson]

Yes, so if it is frozen solid in the tank after a below zero weekend it will thaw out after starting the engine and begin to flow long before the engine will derate itself. IF everything is working as it should.





Mike.

 

[JR]

What about if you have the truck plugged in? Does the DEF get heated then as well? I have always wondered about that one as well...

 

[BIGNASTY]

Is there much if any difference in the brand of DEF, will it go bad? was wondering how many tanks of Diesel to how many tanks of DEF? I guess time will tell. Also does Red Dye Diesel affect the Re-gen unit?

 

[mwilson]

What about if you have the truck plugged in? Does the DEF get heated then as well? I have always wondered about that one as well...

Not that I have seen. A little heat might work its way through the coolant lines at the DEF tank if the equipment was plugged in overnight or an APU was running and circulating the coolant.



Mike.

 

[mwilson]

Is there much if any difference in the brand of DEF, will it go bad? was wondering how many tanks of Diesel to how many tanks of DEF? I guess time will tell. Also does Red Dye Diesel affect the Re-gen unit?

Any decent brand of DEF is fine, the main thing is that the jug is sealed. I am seeing bulk DEF at truck stops which is great if you are pumping directly into the vehicle's DEF tank. I do not recommend refilling a jug to take home or along with you at all. Too much risk of contamination. Buy and use only sealed containers.



A failure from contaminated DEF IS NOT covered under warranty by anyone.



There was a thread a little while back about the use of red diesel in a DEF system and I believe the outcome was that the red diesel does not affect it.



If it did anyone with off-road equipment that uses DEF would be screwed..... which is not the case.



The amount of DEF used is directly affected by how hard the engine is being used. A loaded truck uses more DEF than an unloaded truck.



Mike.

 

[BIGNASTY]

We were told of the dangers of contamination of the DEF, the re-gen system would have to be torn down and cleaned and parts replaced, so take a guess who's job its going to be to fill the DEF tank.

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

We have a fleet of '11-'13 Kenworths that use it and haven't had any issues during the winter months. We fill up from a 275 gallon tote that gets moved inside the shop when the mercury drops.

One thing that I have noticed is the heavy use of EGR during warmup. My guess is what mwilson pointed out.

Keep the DEF fresh and clean and it will work without issue.

 

[BIGNASTY]

I was kind of wondering about the amount because we live out of town and didn't know how much to stock up on. The little jugs that I bought would add up fast if it uses very much. I have to find some way also to haul Red Diesel to the house to use as re-fuel, or maybe get an onsite tank. I don't like the idea of having a re fueling tank/pump in the back of my Pickups I like to have the full length of the bed for things

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

DEF usage is around 200-250 MPG for our trucks. We have a terrible duty cycle in the oilfield... Lots of idle time and PTO time, several slow miles on dirt roads, and a few dozen miles on the pavement. I haven't figured engine hours into the estimate, but perhaps I should.

 

[JR]

I was told by a local guy that runs a 6. 7 that there is a pretty short shelf life on the stuff, regardless of whether it's been opened or not. May make it a little hard to stock up long term if that's the case. I don't know this for a fact but I thought I would mention it since you brought it up. I'm sure Mike or Mike will chime in :-laf or someone more knowledgeable then me, which is almost everyone when it comes to the AfterBurner fuel...



After Burner fuel!! That name has stuck in my head BIG! :-laf Has a nice ring to it...



Also on the fuel, around here if you order 150 gallons or more they will deliver for free. Not sure how far out you are from a station that will deliver but for me I'm within 20 miles so if I need an order I'll call a good week in advance and order it and whichever day their route is in this area they will deliver.

 

[Wayne M.]

I haven't been trained on the SCR systems yet but I have been self learning. I know the Mack/Volvo system has a filter in the pump unit near the tank and the tank has a drain- just in case. I dealt with a contaminated tank a while back, and we drained, changed the filter, refilled, ran the pump through diagnostics, and did a REGEN to prove out. It was fine. No dosing parts (in the actual exhaust) had to be dealt with.
I know the bigger the engine, and the duty cycle- as mentioned are big factors. You'll have to stock up on bottles till you nail down the consumption rate. I'm not clear weather it was the Ford SD or the Mack, but one or both have heaters in the system and the Mack circulates a while on shutdown. So while the truck is off, it's really not completely off.

 

[S.Morris]

Shelf life is greatly deteriorated by sunlight. If it is in the back of a pickup in summer it can be bad in 2months. I believe it is rated 2yrs on shelf but I would try and not use anything older than 6months. Using new sealed 5gal containers is better than bulk to guarantee good quality IMO. Surely erring on side of caution.

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

Update!!

300MPG+ 10gal tank full to red (1/8 tank)

A few miles were added while toting a 200bbl tanker full of water! 70,056# (water only) plus the weight of truck and trailer!!

I did notice that the DEF usage was way higher that day more than others.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Thanks for all the info and thoughts.

BIG

 

[JacksonH]

DEF stuff I buy at Kmart has 1year shelf life written on it!!

 

[stockplug]

32.5% solution of DEF will begin to crystallize and freeze at 12 deg F (-11 deg C). If DEF freezes when the vehicle is shut down, start up and normal operation of the vehicle will not be inhibited. The SCR heating system is designed to quickly return the DEF to liquid form and the operation of the vehicle will not be impacted. The freezing and unthawing of DEF will not cause degradation of the product.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Last few nights and mornings have been low single digits, not a problem with the DEF system working properly starts up fine and works, don't know if it makes any difference but our tractor has a Espar heater on it, the wife loves the warm cab of the tractor, At least it looks warm when she drives by me working the mules on their snowplow, and she in her bikini, sunglasses and glass of ice tea with a towel wiping the sweat from her cheek :-laf


Ha Ha Ha Funny gal :{

THERE WILL BE RETRIBUTION FOR HER ACTIONS, told her the snow boots were a nice fashion statement!!! :-laf

Family said that we should be glad to live out so far that nobody could see her, they would think she's NUT'S!!! instead of just playing a joke on me.


BIG and the Jokester Penny