Downshifting bad?

[HC]

... as a driver trainer it takes 1 misinterpreted comment on an issue like this to screw up 6 months of training because somebody seen it written on the internet. There was one year ago a coach driver that while coming down an 8% grade to a T intersection "listened" to what her friend said kicked it out of gear and "just use the brakes". Fortunately although the light was red no one was hurt but $20k damage to the pickup she hit and $15k to the coach. PK

I could tell you felt strongly about this issue; now I understand why you feel strongly about it. I'm kind of the same way about dangerous driving, after losing a few friends on the highway, I tend to react strongly to those who joke about unsafe driving practices.



You know, if someone could stick a pyro on a brake disk and add one more gauge to the dash, I bet we'd all be driving differently, and sales of exhaust brakes would skyrocket!

 

[GeneralMachine]

I give no hope here. :-laf :-laf :-laf

 

[pkennedy]

Your right- your truck, your money , your life, your opinion- the first three dont need justification, the last one has not been substantiated with any facts while others supplied documentation which has richoted off of you like bullets on rocks. HC states I have a strong feeling about this, 26 years driving over 2 million miles, loads in excess of 400,000lbs at times, some years in excess of 20,000 miles off road with chains on, inclines up to 24%. In the last three years over 250,000 miles on the same 65 miles of road, 29 fatalities, one driver lost his legs, 25% of the 29 fatalities helped in the investigations, traffic control or EMS removal of victims- "strong opinion" NAHHHHH!!!! You want to change the way we were taught to drive give me something that shows decreased statistics, faster learning or documentation that proves what we do daily is wrong. I have done my share of screw ups and almost payed dearly for them, that is the basis of my job "Experience". NO HOPE damned right for those that will listen. PS you are welcome anytime, I welcome the challenge. PK

 

[WDaniels]

Don't really want to jump into this dog fight but, here in Alaska there is a law that prohibits you from taking your vehicle out of gear while moving. Which means no coasting and using only the brakes. If you get in an accident and it's proved that you were coasting, it's your fault no questions asked. I would imagine most states have a similar law. Just my . 02 worth.

WD

 

[illflem]

pkennedy, you've pretty much ruined what could have been an informative thread with your personal attacks. Your manner of response has reduced your creditability to zero in my book.

Enough is enough.

 

[klenger]

WDaniels





I don't want to sound like a smart a$$, but how do you shift. Where would one draw the line between down-shifting while going around a corner, and coasting around the corner. I find myself coasting around corners quite often, mostly because the 6 speed doesn't drop into a lower gear all that easily. I'm also curious what problem the law was supposed to fix.



Also curious, where do you live. My father-in-law lives at 12 1/2 mile Steese Hwy.

 

[pkennedy]

How much verified information has to be posted to prove a positive point for the benefit of others. How many documents from manufacturers, suppliers , repair facilities, training institutions and enacted laws does it take to validate ones opinion to make it fact to dispell myths and heresay. Mr. Fleming you and I ran the gammot on oils and I witnessed the same thing, people with first hand experience and knowledge posted technical comprehensive material which was brushed aside with myth and heresay. The credability issue is unfortunate despite the oil issue most of your posts are right on as you and I live in similar climates and have different problems to solve that even the manufacturers are sketchy on. Your background like mine is varied and your posts show that. I know that you are a moderator but if you folks want unsupported opinions taking precedence over technological facts say so. If Iam wrong on any topic with proof I concede, if truth ruins posts why bother. PK

 

[Hummin Cummins]

I'm gonna get in this one

14 Years over the road exp. NO accidents, NO loss of brakes, NO blown engines, blah blah.

Burp the throttle, downshift, EASE out the clutch, DONT exceed RPMS, and let the engine/trans. slow you down.



My CTD is an auto, but if it was a stick (and I wish it was) I would drive it the same way.



Merry Christmas from me at work



Skinny

 

[msimmons]

With all due respect, Mr Fleming, I have followed this thread from the beginning and could not find any evidence of Mr. Kennedy being inflammatory or resorting to personal attacks.



It is obvious he feels strongly about this subject (and rightly so!) and I concur with his assessment that facts and logic should outweigh heresay and personal opinion when being digested by the readers of this thread.



Just my . 02, no offense intended to ANY parties.



Mike

 

[HC]

pkennedy,

I think you took my comment very differently than it was intended. I was NOT trying to attack you for having strong feelings. I could tell others were beginning to react negatively to the strong words in some of your posts, and my intent was to point out (to the others) that buried in your earlier discussions, was a REASON why you had strong feelings, and to point out that your feelings were justified due to those circumstances.



In short, I was trying to support your statements and lighten the tone with my "brake temperature gauge" comment, but by no means was I trying to disagree with your conclusions, discount your experience, and I especially was not trying to attack or join in a flame war.



I'm sorry if it did not sound that way.

 

[RKohn]

I love this thread...

There's a lot of good info spread around the inordinate amount of crapola.



Adam,



I work in a military facility and deal with the AF folks every day, the guy that worked next to me went back to CONOPS two weeks ago. It's probably closer to 15 support personnel to one skyboy. Probably worded it wrong, point should have been, just cause the guy had a license doesn't mean he knows jack. you're doing it right.



Good stuff PK.



Did anybody ever wonder why they machine teeth on BOTH sides of your gears?



Should we bring up downshifting without the clutch and separate the men from the boys?



Flame on folks. Oo. Oo. Oo.

 

[pkennedy]

HC Not to worry I truly appreciate what you wrote in the context it was written in. Hummin Cummins also many thanks for some positive input on a system that works with acreditation. Mr Fleming you win I will not be renewing my subscription next year. HC limited humor at this point very sorry. PK

 

[WDaniels]

klenger,

The difference in being in-between shifting and coasting is the duration. When shifting normally you are in between gears for less than a second if your transmission is working properly. In coasting, you have lost all control of your driving or motive force. You are dependent upon kenitic energy and if your going down hill, gravity. In going down hill your center of gravity will move forward and how much depends on how steep the hill, and that will make your vehicle handle differently. There fore when coasting you are at the mercy of forces that you have no control over. With your engine hooked to your drive wheels, you are the master of almost any situation. That is why race drivers will brake before the curve and then slightly accelerate through it. They have total control of their machine. There are hundreds and maybe thousands of other factors that come into play but those are the major ones.



I live at 16 mile Chena Hot Springs Rd. I'm within crawling distance of Two Rivers Lodge.



Pkennedy,

would you quit if I disagreed with you? I think not. Don't quit just because someone disagrees with you and tells you. I'm sure that worse things have been said to you at work. Remember, everyone is different and looks at things differently, maybe had a bad day or something. If everyone agreed how boreing this site would be. Believe it or not, you bring good information and ideas to the site just like everyone else does. Some people are more experenced than others. But that is how bone heads like me learn is by asking what seems to be silly questions. I'm just glad those (the experienced ones)guys don't get fed up with them and all quit.

WD

 

[HBarlow]

pkennedy (and other participants of this thread):



Please reconsider your decision to drop out of the TDR. Those of us who may be secret "wannabee truckers" with our Cummins-powered Dodges enjoy reading the experiences of real truckers.



The moderator, illflem, has a tough job to do and I appreciate his efforts and support him. I'm sure he doesn't want you to quit the TDR. He was only trying to diffuse a potential misunderstanding between us stubborn old men with our strongly held views.



Your posts revealed your experiences and strong opinions on the subject but I didn't get the impression that you intended a personal attack on one of the participants in the discussion, only that you disagreed with him and posted directly to him by using his name. You didn't call him names or impugn his intelligence, education, character or motives.



The TDR is an organization of great value to all of us who own Dodge Ram CTDs but membership in the TDR wouldn't be worth a dime without its members ... . the more the better.



So to hwhite, a fellow west Texan, who may have got his feelings hurt, please hang in there and post again. We'll all disagree occasionally. To pkennedy, please reconsider and stay in the TDR. To illflem, the moderator, keep up the good work. You have a tough job and I doubt the pay is worth the problems you have to deal with.



Long live the TDR.



Harvey

 

[Adam]

Oh hell...

Thanks everyone who posted,



You've all answered my question in one way or another. Some recommending downshifting, some non-concurring, but none saying that downshifting will break my beautiful baby or spin my turbine shaft through the hood. FWIW I will continue to downshift while slowing, as I feel I control the vehicle better, and it's more convenient to accelerate if the light changes before I come to a stop.



RKohn,

When I read your comments, I was offended, and felt the urge to defend a friend. Looking back, I probably should have worded things a little less strongly. But you're still here, and don't seem to harbor any grudges... Thank You.



PKennedy,

Thanks for all the information you've supplied. You stated your case, and when pushed, supplied backing information wich substantiates your opinions. I have learned something new because of the time you took to teach me. I hope you will stick around to educate others... Thank You.



Illflem,

I don't envy your job, but I do envy your knowledge. I have asked many questions, and you have provided numerous answers. I find when I see your name on a post I tend to place more emphasis on the words you say. I feel many others do this as well. This is another added responsibility you must bear with everytime you post. I thank you for the time you devote to this site, and realize it wouldn't be the same without it... Thank You.



All others,

Thanks for the information. I continue to get valuable information from everything posted, and without the non-technical posts, or the fun and games, this would just be another information highway instead of a fun place to learn. Your personal experiences add to my knowledge, and help me answer questions that others may ask me... Thank You.



-Adam



P. S. Can't we all just get along?

 

[GeneralMachine]

While driveing home from work today i was thinking on this post, and thought i might try to lift the fog a little, seem's that there has been a lot of reading between the line's, and putting in some thought that's not wrote here. If you read the post it was not said that you should take yer trans out of gear and coast, just let up on the throttle, you'll start slowing, and your still in gear so you have control. As your speed come's down you can keep the rpm and the gear in sink with out over reving the engine and not hurting anything, driver's that rev up the engine and grab gear's are hurting the engine, there's no dought in my mind, and i realy don't care if who ever out there want's to drive like a bat out of hell and gear down everyfew seconds it's your's you make the payment's and there are lot's of mechanics out there that love the way you drive. HBarlow no worries here no feeling's hurt i enjoy this tdr like reading the post, love the CTD so ill be here.



Harv

 

[RKohn]

Somebody says group hug and I'm gonna puke!!!

Adam,



Once ya get to know me, I can be real obnoxious. But I don't discriminate, I can tick almost anybody off if I try hard enough. Glad you're still here. btw, liked the pic of your truck in the river.





PK - Don't you dare be a pansy and bail on us.

 

[John Berger]

I'll downshift and ride slower coming down a big grade. I had the pleasurable experience of towing my former TT and my new 5'ver down the same grade on highway 19-23 in North Carolina and Tennessee. It's the highway to Johnson City, Tennessee. I could get down both sides of the grade (varies from 6-9%) with the Travel trailer behind me, using mostly breaks and a bit of downshifting. With the 5'ver, which is considerably heavier than the TT was, the brakes made me very nervous. I was really glad that I had changed the front pads prior to that particular trip. I will be gearing down much more on such steep grades in the future. Remember this as well: Gear down at the top of the hill and approach the whole grade. Trying to do it once you get a head of steam up could prove costly. Understatement intended.

 

[HBarlow]

It might be useful to this discussion, for anyone who is a new Dodge-Cummins owner or hasn't used an exhaust brake, to point out that diesel engines don't provide much engine braking (compared to a gasoline engine) when gearing down unless equipped with either a mechanical engine brake (big rigs) or an exhaust brake (CTD B5. 9s).



When our manual transmission or modified automatic transmission equipped CTDs are equipped with an exhaust brake, it is possible to descend extremely steep grades with a heavy load or heavy trailer behind without using the service brake, simply by gearing down and using the exhaust brake.



Harvey