DPF cleaning; has anyone tried to...?

[Wayne M.]

I'm leery of a in vehicle chemical cleaning. It's worthy to note that a DPF is not a pass through device like a DOC or a gas engine Cat. It is a filter and is made up of many little pockets that bottom out. With the class 8 units, After a shake, bake and blow, the final check, along with a flow test, is to actually insert a wire gauge in random pockets and check the depth against a spec for the unit. Indicates weather the unit is clear to the bottom of the pocket, which is where the ash collects.

 

[Wayne M.]

I am not a big fan of You Tube for facts, but I did find this guy. He's a tech at a dealership and he seems like a guy I'd like to work alongside. He has a good series of Ram vids.













https://youtu.be/IyCoq_UQXdY

 

[jhenderson]

I've watched several of his vids on UTube. I like the way he presents himself and the topic. Direct and to the point without making too much of himself. He has a very good 3 video set on cleaning the EGR cooler and associated parts. He uses an old radiator over a tank as a cleaning bench. I'd never thought of that. Thanks for the DPF info. I didn't realize the chambers were bottomed. I always assumed( yes I know) that they were blow through with a collector of some sort downstream.

 

[jelag]

So when I was in business, we looked at a Donaldson Program (equipment package) that would allow us to take a DPF that was off a class 6-8 truck and run that filter through a bake oven.... (something we already had) and than the DPF was subjected to a large volume of air at a low pressure to remove the rest of the ash that was left from the bake process... this is a controlled burn, like any other bake off oven....

I sat and talked with the Donaldson People for several hours on this... and had WA state forced all the equipment operators to install a DPF type system on all their existing rolling stock, and off road equipment we would have moved toward the equipment... this being said... that's what I remember and I've always wondered if Donaldson ever got the program off and running.... They sought us out... instead of the local Donaldson Distribution they already had... Hope this little insight helps some..

 

[p-Bar]

Jelag here's one line of equipment . I'm sure with DPF's being shoved down every operators throat it has created another industry.
http://www.fsxinc.com/

 

[mwilson]

The downside to bake and blow methods is the material that does not get removed and packs in the end which creates hot spots. Then the ceramic will crack.

Detroit Diesel highly recommends using the Reman DPF instead of bake and blow cleaning. I agree after seeing some of the carnage.

But the fact that Ram decided to not use a cartridge style DPF may not ever make that an option....

Their point of view.....https://detroitads.azureedge.net/3257-detroit_genuine_parts_diesel_p-2017-03-09.pdf

 

[rashwor]

Seems a removable cartridge would have been the way to go.

 

[MJWenrich]

Watched the video of the fellow replacing the NOX sensor on a 2011. What I don't understand is why he did not bleed like I do when I do anything on my vehicles. "Course he is a bit younger. Okay... a lot.

 

[Wayne M.]

So when I was in business, we looked at a Donaldson Program (equipment package) that would allow us to take a DPF that was off a class 6-8 truck and run that filter through a bake oven.... (something we already had) and than the DPF was subjected to a large volume of air at a low pressure to remove the rest of the ash that was left from the bake process... this is a controlled burn, like any other bake off oven....

I sat and talked with the Donaldson People for several hours on this... and had WA state forced all the equipment operators to install a DPF type system on all their existing rolling stock, and off road equipment we would have moved toward the equipment... this being said... that's what I remember and I've always wondered if Donaldson ever got the program off and running.... They sought us out... instead of the local Donaldson Distribution they already had... Hope this little insight helps some..

jelag, what was the timeframe in this? Around 2004 ish?

 

[Wayne M.]

Jelag here's one line of equipment . I'm sure with DPF's being shoved down every operators throat it has created another industry.
http://www.fsxinc.com/

This is the setup we have. The only extra thing to do aside from this is to "gauge" the filter as I mentioned before, to ensure the bottom of the column is clear and ash/ oil free.

 

[Wayne M.]

Seems a removable cartridge would have been the way to go.

It sure seems it, however in the heavy duty world it is like that. Unfortunately the HD world is moving toward a all in one approach like pickups have only to save space on the chassis. The new Mack all in one I saw still has a removable DPF though.

 

[Wayne M.]

Mike, are you sure that new Detroit aqueous process is not the low man out in the back 40 with a steam jenny? :-laf
I'm sure that's not a cheap proposition. Is that a warrantee path if the engine faults and fouls out the DPF?

 

[mwilson]

Mike, are you sure that new Detroit aqueous process is not the low man out in the back 40 with a steam jenny? :-laf
I'm sure that's not a cheap proposition. Is that a warrantee path if the engine faults and fouls out the DPF?

That scenario should fall under "Progressive Damage" and be included in the warranty repair if there was nothing hincky about the engine failure.

I keep getting a visual of some poor shmuck covered in soot pressure cleaning DPF's out behind the Reman facility in Ohio.....

 

[mwilson]

Detroit Diesel has lost wheelbarrows full of money sucking up bad DPF cores as part of the their commitment to the DPF reman exchange program. They feel it is the right way to go and really discourage the "Bake and Blow" process.

Cummins is now offering reman DPF's as well, the way it goes right now is that we send DPF and other cartridges down to Cummins and they will put them through their own "Bake and Blow" process. If there are failures then we purchase the reman version and the failed units become cores.

Eventually there will be more new, non-exchange units available from the OEM's as the aftermarket competition will force them to do so.

 

[Wayne M.]

Thanks for the DPF info. I didn't realize the chambers were bottomed. I always assumed( yes I know) that they were blow through with a collector of some sort downstream.

I did come across an "official" illustration of the difference between the DOC and a DPF.

So the soot turning to ash and other contaminants like oil collects at the bottom of these tubes, and that's what the DPF cleaning gets rid of.

 

[jacknife]

You should be able to take the DPF off and have it baked . They do it all the time on larger engines. Same filter only smaller in your case. Check with a Cummins shop.

 

[Vt Redneck]

Yup, I'm trucking with my pre DPF Ram, however I still take issue with some of what's going on here.
If I understand, The dealer let him go without really figuring out what's going on, and just resetting his soot without knowing his differential pressure among other things and not getting a stationary regen completed or giving a solid answer before putting him back on the road is not good.
If ammonia sensor = NOx sensor, then you have to have them and reading for SCR dosing and EGR mixing to happen to manage the NOx levels. It's the DEF when sprayed into the exhaust stream before the SCR cat at the right temp/amount that reduces NOx further and a byproduct of that reaction is water vapor, ammonia and CO2, among other things which is all ok. It's ok to see water/ vapor.
Since most folks kinda understand gasoline EFI, I like to draw the similarity that the DEF dosing and the reading/ feedback of the NOx sensors is similar to gasoline EFI and Oxygen sensors and how they feed back.
Eagle, if you have any soot that you can see, like at your tailpipe, you have a problem, so why do you describe a sooty deal?
I'd love to get to May madness, but it's just too far for me. The future is bright for diesel- despite all the government scandals going on. There's a version of the 6.7 out there, not for the Ram, I read about that's doing away with EGR, and economy is even better.

Couple things here I can clear up.

1. Ammonia sensor does not = NOx sensor. The NOx sensors measure just that ... levels of nitrous oxides in ppm. The ammonia sensor measures ammonia levels. DEF is the source of the ammonia. Diesel exhaust fluid is essentially a mixture of water and ammonia (about 32% ammonia and 68% water)

2. Ammonia is not a byproduct of the reaction. The ammonia is actually added as one of the chemicals that is used to facilitate the reaction between the materials of the SCR catalyst, and the actual NOx, to break down the NOx into more friendly pieces, largely hydrogen and water.

Apparently the ammonia sensor has been problematic, because they are not just eliminating it in our pick-ups. They have been eliminating it in the heavy duty trucks as well (think Frieghtliner etc). This elimination does include a software flash, change in wiring harness, and replacement of the SCR catalyst as well.

Hopefully, this information is helpful

 

[truckmen]

"2,111 Idle hours"

Is that a typo???

Hello all,

No, that's the hours. Now I am at 2231 hrs, idle and 3300, drive. Yes, I idle alot because I have to sleep in the truck during my coast-to-coast trips.

 

[truckmen]

Yes at your home base contact that dealership and set a appointment this is very very important thing to do,because this triggers a part's dept to contact warehouse and shipped when available to dealer.But appointment must be made if he is backlog "repeat" still get a appointment set for the recall also were you informed either by email or a letter to your home informing you of the VIN effected recall to your truck.Are you second owner if so you must update all VIN information by the service writer on your truck.Make sure address is current as well.May times people do not keep current with there dealership and this results in a lack of commuincation.Also when that regen comes you will not know it unless you hear the difference in the sound of the exhaust.Do you have a CST II this is a must need for over the road.It gives you a host of information a 250.00 plus you will need the A-piller adaptor.To mount the CTS II or I. I am not sure which one works for the 2014 6.7L.You know of course you fall under a different service requirements for axle,transmission as well also look to your heat exchangers to make sure they are cleaned out because the slightest degree effects everything down line.The DEF nozzle is what shoots DEF into the stream of very hot soot particle's.You must be sure you complete regen's and allow them to do there thing.If you turn it off I am not sure until Sag2 or Bob confirm programme but it will just continue to do so until the exhaust flow is measure within a certain parameter down stream which means you will continue to burn more fuel run hotter and use DEF.Also use very high quality DEF,because does Love's and Pilot use a filteration system in there DEF.Contamination is the biggest problem with DEF nozzles and the spray pattern's.Also I see your mileage and your emission warrenty is almost expired as a car hauler you sure you do not want to get RAM extended warrenty they are offering 750.00 dallors off the Plantium program right now.I recommend that to all hot shotters I see running the interstates it just makes good business sense.Down time is a real drag because you lose your next auction pickup.That is money lost.No good amigo....Vacations,Christmas etc etc...

Hello Eagle6.7

Thank you again for taking the time in replying.
What is a CST II?

 

[truckmen]

I was thinking similarly......

I am at 256,018 miles, 447 idle hours, and 4,740 drive hours as of tonight.

Yikes! I guess I really AM idling too much.
By the way, at this very moment in Oklahoma on my way to AZ, CA and Washington with 4 cars, I am at 2271 idle hrs and 3324 drive.
The APU is planned but haven't quite installed one yet. I do have a generator mounted mounted on the trailer with a power cord running back to the truck for power and heat but now it's summer and here I am again idling for the A/C.
I'll include a picture of my "jury rig" setup. Please, don't laugh.

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