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Dr. Performance or Banks Git kit

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Originally posted by Stefan Kondolay

Evan's got the right idea, don't pay more than you need to. I had the DD2's and the EZ and loved it. I also ran the 275 and the EZ and that was real nice power. But be warned once you start it's tuff to stop. :D :D



Stop??? Are supposed to stop?? :D



Darren
 
I did not see what rig you are running in a profile but I am running the Dr. Performance Phase II on a 97 1 ton 12 valve. I had 199. 1 hp at the rear wheels before the kit and 299. 7 hp after the kit. I rode in a 2000 Powerstroke that had the Phase II installed, it was an automatic and would burn rubber for quite a distance.

If you have a 24 valve, they change out the injectors. The new injectors atomize the fuel more and put it in at a different angle, plus I think the tips are titanium. Then they do a re-flash on the chip.



I gained about 1 mpg in the mountain pulling and 2 mpg on less mountanious land. The power is what is awesome. I pulled a 31' 5th wheel, grossed a little over 20,000 from central Montana over the Columbus hill and over the Bozeman Pass, and never got out of overdrive. Went all the way to the Redlodge switchbacks and never got out of overdrive. My 5th gear now has the power that the 4th gear used to have.



Here are some stats of before and after. In 5th gear before the kit:

65-85 mph 12. 41 sec down to 8. 17 seconds 4. 24 sec faster

50-75 mph 18. 15 sec down to 10. 17 sec 8. 0 sec faster

55-75 mph 13. 0 sec down to 8. 48 sec 4. 52 sec faster

55-80 mph 14. 5 sec down to 10. 75 sec 3. 75 sec faster



As you can see, this is a dramatic difference. If you are interested in one of the Phase II kits, e-mail me and I'll line you up with the guys who put them together. I got better mileage, more power, and great torque increases and haven't regretted it for a minute.



And finally, this kit Phase I and Phase II does not affect your Dodge warranty. The Dodge place in Billings is actually installing these now, and it does not void any part of your warranty.
 
Welcome Ratcliffe!

Hey Dave! I see you finally joined up with TDR. Now we have 2 Pasco-ites on the board :cool:



Rick, if you do want to be cautious with your warranty, and since Dr. P stuff supposedly does not void the warranty (unless you go with Phase 3 I think) you may want to check into just going with the Dr. P ECM reflash. It supposedly adds 60hp for around $500. I don't know if they'd do it separately or not. If you do decide on injectors, I would do some background checking on the particular shop you get it done at, some are probably better than others. I would be afraid to let them have at my motor. My grandfather -in-law had the Stage 2 kit put in his '98 12 valve and he had tons of problems. . . leaky injectors, reduced MPG, tons of smoke. Took it back several times and had poor customer service. They got some of the problems ironed out but it still smokes like a banshee, and I bet his EGTs are quite high. He had his done in Kellogg Idaho.



Vaughn
 
Can any of you guys with the Dr. P stuff that 'doesn't void your warranty' explain how Dr. P gets around the whole warranty issue? Banks is getting hammered on this issue and here is somebody else claiming that their uprates won't void your warranty and I don't see anybody questioning it. If I'm not mistaken the Cummins 245/505 ECM will void my trans/xfer/axles warranty and thats sold by Cummins & DC.



Brian
 
Originally posted by Steve H





And finally, this kit Phase I and Phase II does not affect your Dodge warranty. The Dodge place in Billings is actually installing these now, and it does not void any part of your warranty.



SteveH,..... Nothing personal But "does not void any part of your warranty!":rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



I will agree there are some resonable Dealers out there!:cool:
 
NVR FNSH,



I'm sure I'd make things a lot tougher on myself and my warranty if I went into the dealer with Dr. P. Phase II stickers on my truck. His warranty claims might be a little misleading, kind of like the horsepower claims. Under the right circumstances, his claims are true. Just don't volunteer the information to the dealer. I don't recall seeing something from Dr. P. guaranteeing that the warranty would not be voided.



The Phase II stuff is well hidden in that there's no visible modification to the motor or fuel system (e. g. , no boxes, boost modules, elbows, etc. ) and he doesn't have his Dr. P. name all over your engine compartment. Unless the dealer pulls the injectors or analyzes the ECM, its difficult to see. This makes it hard on the dealer to prove what's been done.



I'm no warranty expert but based on what I've read on this site, I think the dealer has to prove that the modification is responsible for the resulting warranty claim in order for it to be voided.



That being said, I gained 80 rear wheel horsepower with Phase II and it doesn't drive anything like a stock truck. If the dealer drives it, I'll probably be asked some questions.



Hey Vaughn, I may need some banjo bolt and gauge help soon. Are you up for it?
 
I'm very interested in how Dr. P is performing the reflash of the ECM, and what hardware/software he is using. I wonder how he is getting around the copyright issue, which is what got Mark Chapple in trouble at TST products. Anyone have any information they would like to share?
 
Re: Welcome Ratcliffe!

Originally posted by Vaughn MacKenzie

Hey Dave! I see you finally joined up with TDR. Now we have 2 Pasco-ites on the board :cool:



Rick, if you do want to be cautious with your warranty, and since Dr. P stuff supposedly does not void the warranty (unless you go with Phase 3 I think) you may want to check into just going with the Dr. P ECM reflash. It supposedly adds 60hp for around $500. I don't know if they'd do it separately or not. If you do decide on injectors, I would do some background checking on the particular shop you get it done at, some are probably better than others. I would be afraid to let them have at my motor. My grandfather -in-law had the Stage 2 kit put in his '98 12 valve and he had tons of problems. . . leaky injectors, reduced MPG, tons of smoke. Took it back several times and had poor customer service. They got some of the problems ironed out but it still smokes like a banshee, and I bet his EGTs are quite high. He had his done in Kellogg Idaho.



Vaughn



The idaho situation may have changed since his installment. I've had mine in for about 5 or 6 weeks now and have had NO problems. I also took mine out to Kellog, Idaho for installation, even though they install them about 20 miles from my house because the ones in Idaho have installed more of the units than any of the other places around here. They test drove my unit and checked it numerous times for leaks before letting me have it back. They were very meticulous in looking for leaks, but there were none. Also gave me 3 dyno runs to show the actual HP at the rear wheels from what they had done. The only smoke I get is between gears when the turbo spools down a bit, just a bit of (good bit) smoke and then all's clear. It runs like a bat outta "you know where".

Steve H
 
The warranty issue should be a no-brainer with the Phase II. DC has authorized the Dodge shops to install it and cover it under their warranty just like the original OEM parts. The Phase I and Phase II are advertised in our 5 Star Dodge dealership. The people in the Dodge shop have driven my truck after the installation and they love it. It has been worked on, this week, and not one word said about the warranty. Dr. Performance also gives his own written warranty good, I think for two years. If you have an extended warranty like mine, his warranty goes for the full time and up to 100k.

The Phase III is a completely different animal. Much more fuel usage, voided warranty, mucho HP, and isn't even in the same ballpark with the Phase I and II.

Steve H.
 
Originally posted by Steve H

The warranty issue should be a no-brainer with the Phase II. DC has authorized the Dodge shops to install it and cover it under their warranty just like the original OEM parts. The Phase I and Phase II are advertised in our 5 Star Dodge dealership. The people in the Dodge shop have driven my truck after the installation and they love it.



So what EXACTLY has Dr. P done to get the warranty blessing from DC & why hasn't/can't Banks/DTT/BD/DD/Edge et al do the same thing? That is the $64,000 question.



I'm not sure that DC has authorized the dealer to install it especially if I'm correct in that the Cummins ECM uprate voids the powertrain warranty from DC. I'm willing to bet that your 5Star dealer just repairs things under warranty and DC corporate is none the wiser.



Brian
 
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Steve, I hate to say this to you but I'm afraid that isn't accurate regarding the warranty. You guys can view the Dr. P warranty at http://www.drperformance.com/pdf_downloads/dodge_warranty.pdf . First of all just because a dealer is installing a particular product in no way shape or form does that mean that DC has given it's blessing. Here's a couple of quotes from the warranty manual that came with my truck:
But your warranties don't cover any part that Chrysler didn't supply. Nor do they cover the costs of any repairs or adjustments that might be caused or needed because of the installation or use of non-Chrysler parts, components, equipment, materials, or additives.



Examples of the types of alterations not covered are:



* installing accessories - except for genuine Chrysler/MOPAR accessories installed by an authorized Chrysler dealer.
and
Other Exclusions

Your warranties don't cover the costs of repairing damage or conditions caused by any of the following:



* any changes made to your truck that don't comply with Chrysler specifications
Chrysler's specifications very definately include the amount of power that your engine is making. If they didn't feel that the amount of power the engine is making made a difference in the rest of the drivetrain then they wouldn't require you to buy the 6 speed if you want the HO motor. They also wouldn't have had lower output from the automatic equipped trucks before the 2001 model year. If you have a 1999 auto and upgrade your power just to the levels of the manual (only 20 more horsepower - MUCH less than the Phase I or II Dr. P setups) wouldn't that be out of compliance with Chrysler specs? If it was in compliance with their specs I'm quite sure they would have had the automatic equipped engines making the same amount of power as the 5 speeds. Dr. P's kits are not genuine Chrysler/MOPAR parts as far as I know (they aren't in the MOPAR catalog - that's for sure).



Dr. P's warranty isn't what you think it is either. First of all the clutch and torque convertor are not covered by the warranty at all - and there's more. Here's a quote from their warranty:
This warranty is for the period of two years from the date of installation at a Dr Performance approved dealer or 100,000 miles, which ever comes first. Vehicles with an original manufactures engine warranty term greater than two years or 100,000 miles will have the Dr Performance warranty run concurrently with that term and end at the same date or mileage of manufactures term.
So let's say you had their kit installed when you bought the truck and only put on say 10,000 miles in 2 years. Chryslers drivetrain warranty runs for 3 years/36,000 miles, Dr. P's is 2 years/100,000 miles. So for that last year you are on your own with Chryslers warranty on the drivetrain - Dr. P's doesn't apply. Here's another quote from there (this ones scary):
To the original purchaser, Dr. Performance Inc warrants that it's Phase One and Phase Two products are free from defects in material and workmanship. This warranty is limited exclusively to repair or replacement of the products supplied by Dr Performance, which at our sole discretion are found to be defective. Additionally, in the event that a defective Phase One or Phase Two Dr Performance product is the sole and exclusive cause of damage to the engine or drive train of the original owner's vehicle, subject to the limitations set forth below, Dr Performance will repair or replace, in it's sole discretion, and damaged engine parts or drive train parts covered.
So they will ONLY warranty drivetrain parts if the failure is caused by a defective Dr. P product. So here's what could happen - you go in for warranty service because your transmission broke. The dealer see's the Dr. P products and talks with Chrysler and they determine that your transmission failed because you exceeded Chryslers specs (see above). So you call Dr. P for their warranty and they look at their parts and determine that they are NOT defective that they are producing their expected results. You are now between a rock and a hard place. Both companies are abiding by the terms of their warranties!!!



Dr. P's warranty also does not cover off road use as the Chrysler warranty does. The coverage also does not expand in any way in the case of an extended warranty. In case your dealer told you other than what is in that warranty Dr. P is covered there as well:
No one is authorized by Dr Performance to change this warranty in any way or grant any other warranty or to assume any other liabililty in connection with the sale of this Dr Performance product.
I've heard people complain about how the TDR preaches over and over again "I AM MY OWN WARRANTY STATION" when it comes to modifications. However, since people continue to get sucked into misleading representations I feel it's a good idea to keep hammering it home. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
 
The only reason a couple of Dodge dealers install/accept the Dr P products is because they have a warranty agreement directly with Dr P... they'll deal with him. I'd like to see you take that truck in to some other Dodge dealer and try getting away with engine mods. It's just won't happen.



We have heard on this board that there are a few Dodge dealers selling hot rod parts through their service department. Dodge dealers are not DC owned, they are independently owned, and an owner can sell whatever he wants through his/her service department and they don't tell DC that the engines are uprated.



-Mike
 
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