Dr. Performance... "The Doctor is out"

[Mopar-muscle]

i got a question for the admin ...

admin , who is this njohnson ???



he has to be on the banks payroll , i remember reading that we were all outed to DC because someone at the top decided that it would add crediblity to our posts , or the site (??) with the thought being that people would post more responsibly if they had their name attached to their account . i see nothing responsible in this thread ... .



i'll give this (insert your thoughts) one thing , he did well hiding his identity .



i've seen people get bounced off this site for much less and here we have this guy ... . do his issues of the TDR get mailed to washington state ???



edited for stepping over the edge ...

 

[Forrest]

Dear Troll njohnson,





On behalf of the TDR members, I am proud to present you with a round trip ticket to Afganistan. Our troops need someone to lead the charge into the caves. Ms. Fonda will be there at your side.

 

[KatDiesel]

So people don't pay attention to the air side of things?



If memory serves me correctly, the only time you get the Banks intake manifold is when you go with the PowerPack? What bout the "lower level" systems from Banks?



The other companies that just sell the "overfueling" don't sell complete systems because it leaves the "options" upto the end user. Not everyone likes the round filters, not everyone uses the air bulldog hood, not everyone likes the stock airbox and so on.



Same thing about those gauges Banks "includes", I don't like the looks of them... ... . so without having to buy the "system" I am free to purchase whichever gauges suit my personal tastes.

 

[Brandon]

kat you are a moderator now... ... ... . you gotta defend the guy..... kinda like the aclu



he he he

 

[Shovelhead]

Originally posted by Brandon



kat you are a moderator now... ... ... . you gotta defend the guy..... kinda like the aclu



Sounds to me like maybe NJohnson needs to get "aclu" (a clue)

 

[Brandon]

lmao

 

[Berserker]

Who's keeping this post alive?

Okay,



My viewpoint: Naven started this thread to voice his opinion and get feedback. (and maybe to start a little I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER. )



61+ other posts have essentially tried to rip him a new one. Some have resorted to name calling (against the rules ) And others have tried to use logic. The problem is that Naiven doesn't respond frequently enough to keep the thread going in a true debate fashion and by the time he can respond many are ready to tar and feather him and I'm pretty sure he is on the defensive.



Outlining a few facts vs. opinions.



Fact: Banks big kick is airflow - more in and more out. (All of their kits except the cheapest address the issue of airflow. )

Opinion: I agree that airflow is important and I would venture that more than 90% of the TDR members would agree.



Fact: Banks does use a copy of the TST box that does allow more fuel than stock. This box is called the Ottomind and they have added a few of their own touches to it.

Opinion: The box does what it is supposed to do. If you knock Banks here then you are knocking TST, Edge, Van Aken and generally any fueling box.



Fact: Banks equipment is quality constructed and is definitely an improvement on stock.

Opinion: The exhaust that I bought is great. Bolted up with no problems. The 14cm housing with their wastegate is excellent quality. The filter is a K&N and is also fine equipment.



Fact: Banks is a large company with many advertising dollars at work.

Opinion: They do spend a lot of money on advertising. Edge or TST would do the same if they could. Don't doubt it.



Fact: Banks equipment sells for top dollar. They are not the cheapest and do not claim to be.

Opinion: Obviously they sell for top dollar. That's half the reason that people ***** about them $$$. They do it because they can. Marketing costs money and of course the price gets added to the cost of the equipment.



Fact: Banks does say that their equipment will not void your factory warranty.

Opinion: This is probably the actual meat of the whole "anti-Banks" agrument. Legally they probably are correct. I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure that Banks has run their statements by some lawyers and they are comfortable with it. Now here in the "real-world" we know that there are some good 5-star dealers and some bad ones. We know that some will *try* to void your engine and drivetrain warranty because you have any aftermarket enhancement. We know from the MM act that they can't blindly do this and that the burden of proof is upon them but face it, who has the time and money to fight for our rights?



I won't argue wether the Banks ads are misleading or not. After all that would be a legal vs. moral debate would't it? And I'm neither the most legal or most moral here.



P. S. I have nothing to hide. Look at my sig. Read my past posts.

 

[Briar Hopper]

Berserker, go back and read carefully. Nowhere in this thread, nor in any other, have I knocked Gale Banks Engineering. Repeat, I did not slam Banks. I did not put them down.

My problem was with Naiven. Not Banks. He slammed several excellent companies, without just cause, and without knowing what he was talking about. I happen to consider the owners & business associates of one of those companies to be my friends. What Naiven said, and how he said it, showed a marked lack of good judgement, character, and knowledge. Worse yet, he does not now, nor will he probably ever, understand why we take exception to what he said.

When a thread reaches this length, sometimes people will miss details or certain posts, and misinterpret or jump to conclusions about the original intent of the thread. Perhaps that's the case with you. Please go back and read the first post by him, carefully, and my response. You do not need to defend Banks to me. I understand their marketing philosophy and methods. My opinion of them is known to my friends, and that's good enough for me.

And please do not take my words here, the wrong way. I mean no offense towards you. I just want to make sure we are clear on this.

 

[Pat@BD]

Re: Who's keeping this post alive?

Originally posted by Berserker

Okay,















Fact: Banks does use a copy of the TST box that does allow more fuel than stock. This box is called the Ottomind and they have added a few of their own touches to it.

Opinion: The box does what it is supposed to do. If you knock Banks here then you are knocking TST, Edge, Van Aken and generally any fueling box



I have to disagree a little here. The Edge and Vanaken use Digital Can bus technology. These boxes adjust injection timing as well as fueling. They are not just fueling boxes

 

[Berserker]

My apologies.

Briar Hopper,



Unfortunately I went back to look at NJohnson's other posts. That has skewed my writings on this particular post. If you take all of the Banks/NJohnson postings then my post would applicable. I guess that I'm just a cross-poster



I do realize that Naven (correct spelling) did indeed slam other companies. I use some of those other companies products and I like them as well. Just allow me the small victory of pointing out how often Banks gets slammed as well. If not for their equipment then for their advertising techniques. I do think that they shouldn't toe the legal line in their advertising but that's what makes this America.

 

[Berserker]

Not just a fueling box

kantdrive55,



I do understand that the Van Aken and other products aren't just feuling boxes. I was just using Naven's words (I know that can be dangerous. )



Just as long as we all understand that the Ottomind is also more than just a "crude fueling box. "



Banks Blurb: "OttoMind TLC power-train control module

OttoMind TLC optimizes performance and mileage, while protecting diesel durability, with Banks' exclusive electronic functions: TLC (Torque Limiting Calibration) sets maximum rear-wheel torque to 650 lb-ft • TLC2 (Temperature Limiting Control) monitors turbine-inlet temperature; maintains 1300° F max EGT • ABC (Active Boost Conditioning) dynamically provides accurate fueling and boost control; prevents over-fueling • PAL (Power Adjusted Lock-up) reduces power required to overcome torque-converter lock-up • PASS (Performance Accelerator Sub-system) enhances acceleration with aggressive fuel delivery when throttle demands; returns to normal to prevent over-fueling and over-temping. "

 

[WOWZY]

I'm proud of you guys



Keep up the good work!

 

[NJohnson]

Thanks once again for all the comments. It's clear that I haven't yet been welcomed into the TDR "cult" but that was never my goal so I wont shed too many tears. You can attack me all you want for my allegiance to the Banks system. But please dont act like it's so wretched and distasteful of me to express my feelings about some of the other items on the aftermarket. From what I've seen, my posts are fairly mild in comparison with what some of you have to say about Banks. It's so easy to knock the guy who's on top. Yes, Banks has the best website. Yes, they do a great deal of advertising. Yes, those things account for good visibility and of course good sales. Do you think they started out as the biggest company? There's a reason for their success. Like their products or hate them, please dont suggest that their success is strictly due to good advertising. It hurts your credibility to sound so ridiculously naive. The guy on top got there for a reason. I did my research before I bought ANYTHING. I concluded that the Banks system was the most complete and seemed built to last. As I said before, those things matter to me. Some of you have taunted those of us who bought Banks because "we could have gotten the power a whole lot cheaper". Well all I can say to that is, some of us aren't really concerned about saving a buck when it comes to our trucks. I happen to take pride in my truck and I went for what's well recognized as being the top of the line. Maybe the TDR cult disagrees with that but in the final analysis, who cares.

The 8,000 plus members of this site pale by comparison to the numbers of folks out there who own Dodge Cummins diesel pickups. Please dont act as though you guys are the "clearing house" for quality after market products. Your numbers simply arent great enough for those bragging rights. So if you wont let me join in any reindeer games, so be it.



Naven

 

[HiPerf360]

NJohnson,

You started this so don't try to talk your way out of it by putting the other TDR members down. I agree with you that Banks is a quality product; I just think their power increase per dollar sucks. As you can see by my sig I don't care what the product cost is either, I just want the best!

 

[KatDiesel]

Cost means nuthing (to me)... ... . but tell me, does Banks offer any kit that gives you more then 300 rear wheel horsepower? Nope they sure don't. When they get a 400hp kit, 450hp kit, or a 500hp kit then maybe, just maybe they will get a lil more consideration. but until then they are far from the "top".

 

[JR2]

Naven

I guess it comes down to this. You chose banks because you considered all the options and that was the correct option for you. Most of the guys on TDR chose other companys because they considered all the options and decided what was correct for their trucks. I really think the problem here is that you are mouthing off about other companys stuff that you appear to have NO experience with.



Banks sells some nice packages, is it worth the $$ they charge?? Not in my opnion. Do the Mods live up the their HP claims. . from TDR members experience... not. Do most of the members like banks, probably not. Do you have a right to post pro banks statments on the TDR... . Yes you do. Do we have a right to give our opinons. . yes we do. Should you mouth off about stuff you don't have a clue about. . nope. Lets just leave it at that.

 

[Charley]

What Wayne Caldwell said goes for me.



My 2001, 2500, 4X4, Quad Cab, auto, 4:10, lsd, white, all but leather suits me fine box stock till the warranty runs out. It has pulled my 15,000# Holiday Rambler over the 8% grades from Cottonwood AZ to Flag and down a few of the same with only a mild case of white nuckles. I'll let DC do the warranty till it runs out then I'll do what I did with my 97. I'll take it to a knowledgeable diesel shop and get a modest boost in horsepower, the transmission mods, engine brake and all that stuff and I'll do it based on the good research done by this fine group here on TDR. It worked on the 97. The Kenworths and Peterbuilts blew my doors off on the flats and I passed them all in the mountains. Thanks guys.



Charley



NOTE: No truck bio in the sig as nothing to brag about, yet.

 

[Brandon]

I am excited this thread has the potential for a hot topic "flaming folder icon"







its not about cheap cause most bombers have spent way more than everyone elses systems xcept dr p he he



so the bottom line here is lots a guys are power mongers here and they pave the way for everything else that works



like lawrence and jd... ... camshaft duh its expensive now but in a few years a camshaft will be on all our mod lists



POWER MONGERS PAVE THE WAY and show light bombers the path of least resistance



B.....

 

[chuck3]

Hey!

One thing I have to give njohnson credit for is he sure grabs and keeps our attention.

 

[Sled Puller]

HEY!

Who was the first to turn up fuel and market it?



I would GUESS Mark Chapple, and then Bruce Mallinson, maybe Piers for BD(at the time)



Any other guesses?





Bottom feeders? WOW.

Well, these 8000 memebers just happen to be the most educated people you will ever meet about their vehicles, and the (so called) competition.





Vendors fear and love us, we push them to new heights of power, and complain loud enough to keep prices somewhat reasonable.



Vendors who treat TDR membres well, have HUGE increases in sales, from jacking of the jaws, eh?

Gene