-
TDR Magazine subscribers receive more than the magazine! You also gain additional forum privileges!
Details here: TDR Privileges
Subscribe to TDR Magazine here: https://www.tdr-online.com/
Drill for oil in ANWR?????
- Thread starter JR2
- Start Date
Attention: TDR Forum Junkies To the point: Click this link and check out the Front Page News story(ies) where we are tracking the introduction of the 2025 Ram HD trucks.
Thanks, TDR Staff
Bob Wagner
TDR MEMBER
Hell Yes!
with the advancement of directional drilling I would say yes.
Look at Milne Point, now thats a work of art
with the advancement of directional drilling I would say yes.
Look at Milne Point, now thats a work of art
Drilling techniques are better nowadays. However I still voted no. They claim where not gonna see a drop of that for 10 years. I suggest that we spend that money on efficiency. I'm with those that think that better efficiency is the answer. We ( America ) can do far more with that, than the amount of oil we will ever get out of ANWR. -- I forget the exact figure, the but the people against say that if each car in america got 1-2 ( of what ever the correct figure is, its low ) MPG better mileage, then we would save more oil that will ever be produced by ANWR. If this is then this is the way to go.
What I really want to know, is if they can make synthetic oil, lube, gear oil, transmission fluid and all that, how come they cannot make synthetic gasoline. -- We could make it ourself, not need OPEC. And if its like oil, it would cost a little more, but last twice as long, burn cleaner, etc. etc.
What I really want to know, is if they can make synthetic oil, lube, gear oil, transmission fluid and all that, how come they cannot make synthetic gasoline. -- We could make it ourself, not need OPEC. And if its like oil, it would cost a little more, but last twice as long, burn cleaner, etc. etc.
Of course we should. We will eventually need it. It's not going to significantly impact the ANWR at all, so there's no reason not to.
Does anyone know exactly where oil is used domestically? I know it's used to make engine fuel, lubes oils and greases and heating oils. But where else is it used? Plastics? Tires? Paints?
Solvents? I find it hard to believe that transportation soaks up a huge portion of incoming crude.
Fest3er
Solvents? I find it hard to believe that transportation soaks up a huge portion of incoming crude.
Fest3er
The area considered for drilling is a fraction of the ANWR, the studies conducted years ago indicated that the impact on the environment would be nearly impossible to detect... these studies were done by ALASKA!
I don't know about you but I would venture to guess that you would want your children and their children to be free from foreign energy suppliers.
Once again it is the same people that brought you tree huggin, false reports of global warming, etc. so unless you wanna join Greenpiece (of I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER) get the facts... they have a voice and so do we!
I don't know about you but I would venture to guess that you would want your children and their children to be free from foreign energy suppliers.
Once again it is the same people that brought you tree huggin, false reports of global warming, etc. so unless you wanna join Greenpiece (of I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER) get the facts... they have a voice and so do we!
I like this thread. Its been a few days since someone stirred the pot around here
I would venture to guess that the only way we will ever get free from foriegn energy suppliers is to stop using gasoline in our cars.
So..... Since half of our oil is for transportation and half is for other stuff, plastics, etc. I will change my vote to yes if we start using alternative power sources in cars, and save the crude we do get for the rest of the stuff
I would venture to guess that the only way we will ever get free from foriegn energy suppliers is to stop using gasoline in our cars.
So..... Since half of our oil is for transportation and half is for other stuff, plastics, etc. I will change my vote to yes if we start using alternative power sources in cars, and save the crude we do get for the rest of the stuff
Put your gloves on!! I am certain I am the only TDR member that has lived in the 1002 area of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Danandme stated, "They could be drilling there right now and the ***clown environmentalists wouldn't even know. It's not like they're going to get out of their apartments in the city and go see". Have you ever been there Danadme? Is that different then saying, "These clown pro-development people are for drilling and they've never gotten out of their apartment to see if it will be impacted". Most people are not honestly informed about the impact that drilling will have on the refuge. It may not decimate the caribou herds like some environmentalist fear, but it will definitely have a negative impact. The pro-drilling people like to use the analogy that the drilling foot print (area impacted) is no larger than a big international airport. They are probably right. But, it is like taking all the noise, traffic, pollution ect... from the airport, dividing into multiple sections, connecting them by roads and pipelines, then spreading it out in an area like Yellowstone Park or Yosemite Valley. How can you say that won't have an negative impact? The amount of oil in the ground is over exaggerated and even the pro-drilling experts agree that all the oil in ANWR would only meet about 2% of our total needs. Alaska has thousands of miles of coastline which most of is open to drilling and exploration. this small section of coast is unique and like no other, that is why it was designated as a wildlife refuge. Why not preserve just a small section of Alaska's coastline, the ANWR coast. If anyone believes this issue is about future energy needs or a power crisis, they are wrong. It's about money. Period.
LHOTKA hit the nail square on the head. Most of those who say yes, by all means drill, just don't know what they are talking about. Despite all the hype by the oil companies, the oil from ANWR would only be a drop in the bucket that the US consumes. And on top of all that, the oil from ANWR would be exported to foreign countries, we here in the US wouldn't see a drop of it, but the linings in the pockets of the big oil companies would be even fatter! The prices at the fuel pumps would't change a bit if they did drill and moved the oil from ANWR to the market place!
I lived and worked in Alaska for 15 years as a wildlife biologist on the Bering Sea Coast and I was able to trace out cat trails and other so called development areas that were made 50 or more years ago that looked like they were made yesterday! Don't believe that they will have almost no impact on those very fragile tundra areas. The arctic tundra takes hundreds of years (if not more) to repair itself from man made damage.
I know I sound like an enviornmentalist, but unlike a lot of the people who yell enviornmentalist and try to turn the term into a four letter word, I lived and worked my entire career in the Wildlife field and know just how fragile nature really is, especially in the arctic regions. Just before I left Alaska, I was charged with doing the aerial surveys of the EXON VALDEZ oil spill. What I saw during those surveys still makes me sick at heart when I think of them.
I lived and worked in Alaska for 15 years as a wildlife biologist on the Bering Sea Coast and I was able to trace out cat trails and other so called development areas that were made 50 or more years ago that looked like they were made yesterday! Don't believe that they will have almost no impact on those very fragile tundra areas. The arctic tundra takes hundreds of years (if not more) to repair itself from man made damage.
I know I sound like an enviornmentalist, but unlike a lot of the people who yell enviornmentalist and try to turn the term into a four letter word, I lived and worked my entire career in the Wildlife field and know just how fragile nature really is, especially in the arctic regions. Just before I left Alaska, I was charged with doing the aerial surveys of the EXON VALDEZ oil spill. What I saw during those surveys still makes me sick at heart when I think of them.
Boy oh boy I really stirred the pot when I posted this poll.
Let me respond to a few of you...
Bob Wagner - Milne Point is a work of art, and I will be out there at the end of the month practing the art of directional drilling on some of the most abitious wells they have ever planned. 30K feet deep and 4 miles of displacment. If we can get these well drilled it will be a leap forward for drilling up here. We would be able to drain a 4 X4 mile area with just one gravel pad.
Sly bones - the only reason it takes ten years to bring a new field online is all the government red tape. You sholuld see the stack of permits it takes. I work in a very new field and have seen stack of permits. I bet it was over a foot thick. Each one takes lawyers and countless public hearings to obtain. That is why it takes ten years. I personally think that it could be done faster than that. Alpine took about 5 years, Northstar is going to take about 4. Even if it does take 10 years that is fine, I guarentee that we will need the oil even more then.
Lee H - you make a statement about cat trains and tracks left in the tundra 50 years ago and have never healed. You are correct they will never heal up, but we don't use cat trains any more. You want to see some serious damage to the tundra, fly of one of the Native Villages up here and look at the ATV tracs that go in every direction. Look at all the half full fuel drums that are laying in the tundra leaking in a 10 mile radius of the villages.
As for the Exon Valdez spill, yes it was terrible. But it was by no means the biggest or worst oil spill in the world. If you want to see the biggest oil spill in the world all you have to do is drive to your local mall or food mart. Look in the parking lot, see the oil that drips out of the cars... . now think about how many parking lots there are in the world. It is a fact that there is more oil in those parking lots than the oil business has ever spilled. (and heck at least we clean ours up or try to). As for the drop in the bucket that the ANWR oil could be, every drop that does not come form overseas makes this country less dependent of foreign oil and that is a good thing.
Lhotka - Of course the entire thing is about $$, everyting is about $$. Why did you move out of the 1002 area, probably to make $$. Why do oil compaines want to drill for oil, to make $$. Why does the state of Alaska want the oil companies to drill, so they can tax the crap out of them and get $$. There are thousands of miles of coast line in Alaska that are open to oil drilling, but the funny thing about drilling for oil is that you have to drill were the potential for oil exists. I promise you if there was somewhere else that held the potential for oil that ANWR holds we would be putting holes in the ground right now. The plain and simple facts are this, the costal plain of ANWR has a high potential for holding massive amounts of hydrocarbons. The 1002 area was set aside for potential oil exploration and that is what the oil companies want to do. They could find a billion barrels or they could find 10 billion, we will never know unless we go look and see what is there. And don't worry, it there is no $$ to be made on the oil that is there, the oil compaines will not drill for it.
Just so ever ones knows where I am coming from. I was born and raised in Alaska. My father worked in the oil field in Alaska for 30 years and I have worked in them for 14. I owe every thing I have in life to the oilfields and the money my Dad and I have made. Do I think everything the oil companies do is good and right, hell no. Do I think the oil companies have made mistakes, yes I do. Well they keep making mistakes, yes they will. Well they spill any more oil, yes they will. Do they want to spill oil, no they don't. Do I think we ought to drill in ANWR, yes I do.
Sorry for the long post... I got fired up... .
Let me respond to a few of you...
Bob Wagner - Milne Point is a work of art, and I will be out there at the end of the month practing the art of directional drilling on some of the most abitious wells they have ever planned. 30K feet deep and 4 miles of displacment. If we can get these well drilled it will be a leap forward for drilling up here. We would be able to drain a 4 X4 mile area with just one gravel pad.
Sly bones - the only reason it takes ten years to bring a new field online is all the government red tape. You sholuld see the stack of permits it takes. I work in a very new field and have seen stack of permits. I bet it was over a foot thick. Each one takes lawyers and countless public hearings to obtain. That is why it takes ten years. I personally think that it could be done faster than that. Alpine took about 5 years, Northstar is going to take about 4. Even if it does take 10 years that is fine, I guarentee that we will need the oil even more then.
Lee H - you make a statement about cat trains and tracks left in the tundra 50 years ago and have never healed. You are correct they will never heal up, but we don't use cat trains any more. You want to see some serious damage to the tundra, fly of one of the Native Villages up here and look at the ATV tracs that go in every direction. Look at all the half full fuel drums that are laying in the tundra leaking in a 10 mile radius of the villages.
As for the Exon Valdez spill, yes it was terrible. But it was by no means the biggest or worst oil spill in the world. If you want to see the biggest oil spill in the world all you have to do is drive to your local mall or food mart. Look in the parking lot, see the oil that drips out of the cars... . now think about how many parking lots there are in the world. It is a fact that there is more oil in those parking lots than the oil business has ever spilled. (and heck at least we clean ours up or try to). As for the drop in the bucket that the ANWR oil could be, every drop that does not come form overseas makes this country less dependent of foreign oil and that is a good thing.
Lhotka - Of course the entire thing is about $$, everyting is about $$. Why did you move out of the 1002 area, probably to make $$. Why do oil compaines want to drill for oil, to make $$. Why does the state of Alaska want the oil companies to drill, so they can tax the crap out of them and get $$. There are thousands of miles of coast line in Alaska that are open to oil drilling, but the funny thing about drilling for oil is that you have to drill were the potential for oil exists. I promise you if there was somewhere else that held the potential for oil that ANWR holds we would be putting holes in the ground right now. The plain and simple facts are this, the costal plain of ANWR has a high potential for holding massive amounts of hydrocarbons. The 1002 area was set aside for potential oil exploration and that is what the oil companies want to do. They could find a billion barrels or they could find 10 billion, we will never know unless we go look and see what is there. And don't worry, it there is no $$ to be made on the oil that is there, the oil compaines will not drill for it.
Just so ever ones knows where I am coming from. I was born and raised in Alaska. My father worked in the oil field in Alaska for 30 years and I have worked in them for 14. I owe every thing I have in life to the oilfields and the money my Dad and I have made. Do I think everything the oil companies do is good and right, hell no. Do I think the oil companies have made mistakes, yes I do. Well they keep making mistakes, yes they will. Well they spill any more oil, yes they will. Do they want to spill oil, no they don't. Do I think we ought to drill in ANWR, yes I do.
Sorry for the long post... I got fired up... .
ANWR
The proposed area needed to develop and produce the oil in ANWR is around 2000 acres (out of literally millions of acres!). Please tell me why every last square inch of ANWR has to remain pristine. Why is it OK for caribou to destroy tundra with their sharp hooves and crap on it but not OK for humans to even set foot in ANWR?
Whether oil produced there is exported or used domestically makes absolutely no difference. In fact, because it can be shipped more cheaply to Asian markets means exporting it is to our advantage. In any case, the result is our net imports decrease along with the trade deficit.
Nobody knows for sure how much oil is there until exploratory wells are drilled. To say that the amount is insignificant is pure speculation. Any additional oil dumped into the market will tend to push prices lower than they would otherwise be. Let's see how much is there and then decide whether or not it should be produced.
The proposed area needed to develop and produce the oil in ANWR is around 2000 acres (out of literally millions of acres!). Please tell me why every last square inch of ANWR has to remain pristine. Why is it OK for caribou to destroy tundra with their sharp hooves and crap on it but not OK for humans to even set foot in ANWR?
Whether oil produced there is exported or used domestically makes absolutely no difference. In fact, because it can be shipped more cheaply to Asian markets means exporting it is to our advantage. In any case, the result is our net imports decrease along with the trade deficit.
Nobody knows for sure how much oil is there until exploratory wells are drilled. To say that the amount is insignificant is pure speculation. Any additional oil dumped into the market will tend to push prices lower than they would otherwise be. Let's see how much is there and then decide whether or not it should be produced.
Nay.
ANWR is a reserve. If we allow drilling there,whats next?Yellowstone,Grand canyon,Yosemite?It's not like we don't have options,our tax laws,EPA,and other well wishers are doing a job on the oil companys ability to produce. The oil companys are being taxed for all product in storage at there facilitys quarterly!What does this mean?That they try to keep all storage to a minimun at the refinery. So when you pump gas at the station,the refinery gets an order for so many gallons. They then have to produce it from crude.
This is the reason for our big price hike this spring. We have the crude,and we have the storage. The pipelines in America are a little lacking,but still able to provide.
Of course Big oil wants to go into ANWR. Of course Bush would want this,he has holdings and history with oil. I say lets keep going with our off shore and start getting with the program on conservation/alternative fuels. I try to only drive when I need to. We have one of the most effecient vehicles (pound for pound) on the road,lets use em wisely. If we keep driving down the highway like theres no tomorrow,there won't be!
ANWR is a reserve. If we allow drilling there,whats next?Yellowstone,Grand canyon,Yosemite?It's not like we don't have options,our tax laws,EPA,and other well wishers are doing a job on the oil companys ability to produce. The oil companys are being taxed for all product in storage at there facilitys quarterly!What does this mean?That they try to keep all storage to a minimun at the refinery. So when you pump gas at the station,the refinery gets an order for so many gallons. They then have to produce it from crude.
This is the reason for our big price hike this spring. We have the crude,and we have the storage. The pipelines in America are a little lacking,but still able to provide. Of course Big oil wants to go into ANWR. Of course Bush would want this,he has holdings and history with oil. I say lets keep going with our off shore and start getting with the program on conservation/alternative fuels. I try to only drive when I need to. We have one of the most effecient vehicles (pound for pound) on the road,lets use em wisely. If we keep driving down the highway like theres no tomorrow,there won't be!
I respect JR2's response as an honest one. One that government or oil companies won't make. Radixr, I don't fault you for falling victim to the industry's propaganda machine. Their suggestion that only 2000 acres will be impacted is simply a lie. You, like many other Americas who live so far away simply don't have all the facts and tend to either support or oppose development based on political ideals. Let me present a very simple analogy. Drilling in the 1002 area is like placing a . 45 caliber bullet dead center mass of your target as opposed to an outer extremity. The entrance wound is only a few millimeters wide compared to the relative surface of the target, but the impact is much greater. Food for thought. JR2 thanks for adding a little controversy to the board!!!
Let's see, the USGS says the technically recoverable oil within the ANWR is a mean value of 10. 4 billion barrels total (http://geology.cr.usgs.gov/pub/fact-sheets/fs-0028-01/fs-0028-01.htm).
Our current rate of oil imports is about 8 million barrels a day (http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/ebr/ebrnoi.html).
You can do the math, but drilling and extracting all the oil beneath the ANWR wouldn't save us from oil imports for long. And keep in mind it'll take a decade or so for oil production in the ANWR to start and it's likely our oil budget will be much higher in the future than it is now.
This isn't a good solution. If nothing else it seems to me it'd be better to save drilling in the ANWR until we *really* need it. When the world starts to run out of oil it's going to get real ugly...
Oh, and oil and fuel runoff from parking lots and such isn't that big of a problem. Most parking lots are asphalt--i. e. oil-based. When I was a working environmental geologist we'd often get permission from state and federal regulators to use low-level hydrocarbon contaminated soil for road-base below asphalt roads and parking lots.
Our current rate of oil imports is about 8 million barrels a day (http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/ebr/ebrnoi.html).
You can do the math, but drilling and extracting all the oil beneath the ANWR wouldn't save us from oil imports for long. And keep in mind it'll take a decade or so for oil production in the ANWR to start and it's likely our oil budget will be much higher in the future than it is now.
This isn't a good solution. If nothing else it seems to me it'd be better to save drilling in the ANWR until we *really* need it. When the world starts to run out of oil it's going to get real ugly...
Oh, and oil and fuel runoff from parking lots and such isn't that big of a problem. Most parking lots are asphalt--i. e. oil-based. When I was a working environmental geologist we'd often get permission from state and federal regulators to use low-level hydrocarbon contaminated soil for road-base below asphalt roads and parking lots.
Last edited by a moderator:
Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
Turbo Diesel Register
Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
