Drill for oil in ANWR?????

[danandamy]

Altering my position

The sign of a true thinking person, is the ability to listen to all the arguements on a subject and if they feel it's necessary, change their position on that subject. Being a truly thinking person, I'm going to alter my position on this subject. This doesn't happen to me very often, as I'm usually right on every subject I was mulling this topic over in my head today at work when it dawned on me. In my haste to vote to "drill away", I was in essence, trampling all over something that I hold much more near and dear, state's rights. I was thinking of some of the folks on here who actually LIVE in Alaska and it dawned on me that, who the heck was I, way down here in Texas, to decide what they should be doing with their land It certainly makes me when some butt head in Washington or California is all jumping up and down to tell us what to do for the sake of some stupid salimander or something. So my new altered position on this subject is, it should be up to the people of Alaska whether or not they should drill for oil there.

 

[rich m]

2%?--guess what!

Every barrel of domestic crude we DO use is one less that has to be bought from an outside source. Every barrel that we don't purchase from an outside source is just that many more US dollars staying in the US economy. If we're efficient, clean and thrify, or if we get a garden hose and have a backyard slip-n-slide party is beside the point. It's ours. It's not theirs. If they want our dollars, they'll have to think of some other way to get them. That's just one more little string potentially broken in the wrist-ropes that currently hold this nation as an economic hostage to OPEC. Or we can continue NOT drilling our own sources, and allow more and more loops of that figurative rope to be utilized on us. I thought the Revolutionary and Civil wars were both fought on the subject of bondage, one foreign, one federal. Now we have our own citizenry SUPPORTING the idea of yet another version of foreign bondage. I'm originally from Oklahoma. I LIKE oil! My early childhood was, indirectly, financed by petrobucks, and also war-bucks. (Dad worked at Braden Winch, which manufactures, naturally, winches, many of which were on Deuce-n-a-halfs and other DoD vehicles, and many of which were/are on drilling rigs worldwide. )

I'd even support domestic oil that was more expensive than OPEC oil!

Pay the drillers, roughnecks, refiners, truckers, and other oil people a decent wage! I'd much rather pay $1. 60/gal for D#2 if it would increase our nation's overall prosperity, than $1. 25 that has a portion leave our borders, only to finance the dreams of a tyrant, and build a war/terror machine that could eventually be used against us. (Like Iran. Like Iraq. Like Libya. Like Oman. Like Yemen)--- I'd love not too many things more than to see OPEC begin to attempt undercutting the production cost on our own oil, so that they would begin to worry about cash flow the way that we (Should be!) worrying about energy flow now.



When Benjamin Franklin said, "a penny saved is a penny earned", he was serious. When I say, "a barrel drilled, is a barrel earned," I am serious.

As for environmentalists, both the real and the radical, drilling technology IS better than it used to be. I also don't think the Arabs have "greenies" overseeing their cleanliness. The net world pollution might actually be less. Put that in your pipe, and don't smoke it, for fear of damaging the atmosphere





If ANWR would, indeed, make an inconsequential contribution, then it would be fine to look elsewhere. We already know where HUGE amounts are available, and we don't utilize it. This, to me, is wrong.

 

[dmurdock]

i say no

I say no for one reason: we don't need it. The level of fuel efficiency current cars achieve is embarrassing. My wife's car is a 96' bonneville (ie: boat on wheels) and it gets 17 mpg. I hate that car and want to sell it but she loves it and it's paid for, so oh well. I bring this up because new cars of the same size get equal or worse mileage. Come on guys, it's been 5 years... no improvement at all????This is ridiculous.



The technology exists... the motive ($$$) doesn't. Until it does, nothing will change.



I'm not a "tree-hugger" by any stretch of the imagination, those who've met me know this. However, I am open minded and observant, and I've noticed the smog where I live getting worse, very gradually, but it's getting worse (lived here my whole life). I understand that it probably comes from Mexico or Houston, but it's coming from somewhere. The less that is put out, the less there is, and hopefully the less I will have to deal with.



Basically, I'm just disturbed that no one in power has a long-term vision (ie: 300 years into the future).



Just ask yourself this question (it's one we all can relate too). Although a lot of us (including myself) don't use Amsoil (or another synthetic) and the extended drain plan, I think we all know it works. If there is such a shortage of oil, why doesn't the U. S. require ALL vehicles to be sold with synthetic oil and one of those fancy filtration systems... think of all the oil that would saved. I think I know the answer, but you think about it, and see what you come up with.

 

[illflem]

I sure as heck am not an environmentalist and love my petro burning machines, but this oil business has all got to stop. Oil is a finite resource and at the current rates of use it will be gone in 50 years no matter where it comes from. Why mess up the ANWR in a last ditch effort to squeeze the last drops? I feel money would better spent on developing new forms of power, I'm sure they're out there being squelched by the petro companies right now. Save the oil left in the earth for making Vasoline, you can be sure there will always be someone out there trying to give it to you from behind. I vote NO.

 

[dmurdock]

I know what your talking about...

LOL Illflem, my vaseline time comes every April, 'bout the middle of the month.

 

[desert ram]

This is way off the Alsaka subject, but does anyone know what happened to shale oil development. When I was working for Standard Oic of California about 1968-1970, several companies developed the technology to extract oil from shale oil deposits in

Rocky Mts. The statement then was, when gasoline costs fifty cents a gallon, it will be profitable to start production. I haven"t heard anything since.

 

[Champane Flight]

EPA and cost.

The oil shale in Colo from what I understand went under because of cost. The cost of refining,equipment,and regulations on the industry was a little to much.

 

[LEEH]

JR2 - You are correct about many items I brought up concerning damage to the arctic tundra. Cat trains are not in much use today, but the point is that any traffic including ATV's and snowmachines on the tundra not covered by snow is very damaging. The villages along the Bristol Bay area and along the Bering Sea coast all are a mess to say the least. Gargbage thrown about, uncovered waste dump sites blowing about in the wind, 55 gal drums (otherwise known as tundra flowers) scattered about hundreds of miles from the villages is beyond belief.



You say that the Exon Valdez oil spill was small in comparison to others in the world. True, but does that make it any less damaging to the enviornment? That spill didn't have to happen and wouldn't have if just a few precautions would have been applied. The so called clean-up was a joke, and was more of a PR play on the part of the oil Co's that took some of the heat off them.





One last item that a lot of people on this thread seem to be skipping over and that is that why not go ahead and deplete the oil reserves the other countries are willing to sell as long as we can afford their oil. Lets sit on ours and wait until the US need the oil in order to survive or at least maintain our place in the world. When their oil is gone, then we at least would have a little oil to use until alternative oil substitutes are fully developed.



One last question - How much of the oil flowing through the Alaska pipeline actually goes into the US market and what percentage of it is being shipped overseas?

 

[illflem]

Lee I don't think much of the oil going though the pipeline makes it to the US. One thing I found interesting is that the price of Alaskan crude is cheaper than any other. This even when the price quoted is delivered to the west coast of the lower 48, the other prices are f. o. b. Is it the quality of the oil?

 

[The patriot]

I've been told that the Alaskan pipeline is feeding the Pacific rim.

I'd like to see more development of synthoil. An article was in TDR a year ago, or so.

We have plenty coal, lets make it into DIESEL!!

Eric

 

[radixr]

Beautiful ANWR

All you tree-huggers that think all of ANWR must remain in it's pristine condition go read this:



http://www.townhall.com/columnists/jonahgoldberg/jg20010720.shtml

 

[Champane Flight]

Why?

Why do humans tend to try to compare there enviroment with a untouched wild area?I wouldn't give you five cents for central park!!!!!!!Because it would be a miserable place for a human,doesen't mean it would be for all critters!Maybe we need a little tree huggin. Either that or we could pave all of america and cook!

 

[Lhotka]

Jonah Goldberg has been described as "right-wing" and certainly shows his true colors in the above article. The majority (60 % according to Washington polls) of Americans are opposed to drilling in Arctic Refuge. Does that mean they are all environmentalists. No, they just think there are better ways of solving our claimed energy problems than drilling in a wildlife refuge. How many TDR members are opposed to land closures? I am. One of Alaska's biggest land closure to hunting came as a result of the pipeline and oil field development here in Alaska. Put your rifle away, hundreds of square miles are closed to hunting. Alaska is not as big and isolated as most people from the lower 48 think.

 

[Lhotka]

RADIXR,



Here is a quote from one of your recent posts. "Any additional oil dumped into the market will tend to push prices lower than they would otherwise be". Lets see... ..... The lower 48 states just experienced a significant decrease in gasoline prices over the last few months. In fact, prices went from $1. 80 per gallon to around $ 1. 20 in some parts of the nation. How much of that is related to increased production? Why won't your buddy Dick Cheney turn over those energy task force records? I guess you don't mind government controlling certain aspects of your life, such as the price you pay for your diesel. Do you still believe the world is flat?

 

[radixr]

Lhotka, you are confused.

Lhotka,



I didn't say that increased production of crude was the only way prices would go down -- just reread what you excerpted. But the recent price decline is due mainly to increased supply of refined products. Where do you think an increase in supply of refined product comes from? The moon?? The government tried controlling fuel prices in the 1970's with disastrous results. When did I ever say I would like the government to control the price of diesel (or anything for that matter?? Try to be accurate when you attribute "quotes" to me.



And, by the way, why do you have to be a radical rightwinger to come to the conclusion after visiting the ANWR that to extract oil from a "wild mosquito refuge" makes sense?

 

[Lhotka]

Radixr you stated, "Try to be accurate when you attribute "quotes" to me". I can appreciate that.



This is a little off the subject, but I was wondering why you labeled Jonah Goldberg as radical? I assume you were referring to him because his article was the topic of your post.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Originally posted by desert ram

This is way off the Alsaka subject, but does anyone know what happened to shale oil development. When I was working for Standard Oic of California about 1968-1970, several companies developed the technology to extract oil from shale oil deposits in

Rocky Mts. The statement then was, when gasoline costs fifty cents a gallon, it will be profitable to start production. I haven"t heard anything since.

I recently read where the shale oil business is alive and well in Alberta with about four big players putting a lot of money into new processing facilities. Apparently the technology for processing has advanced to where oil can be competively produced.



On ANWAR: Perhaps the battle is more inportant than the battlefield.

 

[FATCAT]

Yes, definitely drill in Alaska or where ever (off the east, west, and southern coasts). Where ever it is, go after it. The next time the Arabs decide to yank a little tighter on our short and curlys and the price of gas/fuel oil goes to say ... $4, $5, $6+ a gallon and you don't want to freeze in the winter or have to ride you bike to work, I'm know all of you will be saying "... I don't care where we have to drill, just GET ME MY F*@KING OIL!!!!".

 

[DEZLPWR]

Amen, FATCAT.....

I couldn't have said it better myself.