Driveshaft options

[cerberusiam]

Sorry, keep mixing up names. Drive Shaft Specialist San Antonio TX builds the drive lines, Driveline services has the AAM yoke customized to take a 1480 with u-bolts.

 

[brods]

Odd. I spoke with DSS yesterday and was ready to buy, but when pressed he said they use genuine AAM parts meant for 1415 or 1485 joints, and that the spicers are only 0.009" bigger. The way he dismissed the size difference left me to believe they just stuff the joints in there. I also would have assumed he would have mentioned if they modified the AAM parts to fit the spicer joints, but he didn't. Thanks to your post and searching for Driveline services I did find a 1410 spicer yoke that might work 3-3-17529 and a flange yoke 3-2-49, but there may be a bolt hole issue with that one.

I'll post some results of my searching in a bit. Bottom line is I want steel and no bull**** about the joint size. If that means going back to a stock shaft so be it, at least I'll know all the parts are for the same 1415 ******* joints!

 

[brods]

For anyone with time to kill this super long thread has lots of good info: http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3rd-gen-powertrain/108638-one-piece-driveshaft.html Here are just a couple of take-a-ways:

Aluminum shafts need coated u-joints to prevent accelerated corrosion due to dissimilar metals. (This is a big deal here where the road salt melts vehicles as well as ice).
It is best not to have a driveshaft shipped because rough handling can throw it out of balance.
The reason why my OEM shaft back in 2008 was only $183 and now costs $292 is because of the “contract period”.

An ironic post saying not to force the spicer joints into yokes meant for AAM joints.

For those interested in just how much of a difference there is between the 1410's and the 1480's, this is how much of a difference. #ad
These ARE NOT interchangeable with the AAM joints without machining the end caps, the circlips, or the yokes. The Spicer joints are slightly larger than the AAM joints and it puts the joints in a bind and you WILL wear them out quickly. You can MAKE them fit, but they'll be in a bind.

We see people say they put them in all time and we also see people replacing them in less than 10,000 miles. Spicer XL's should have a life expectancy of NO LESS than 100,000 miles before even needing to be greased, 350K before needing to be replaced.

The only joints we recommend putting in the AAM shafts are the actual AAM joints (junk) or the Neapco's (preferred) which are normally not available at your local parts store, you normally need to get them at an actual drive line shop. The Neapco's aren't cheap, but they're a much better joint than the AAM crap.

Info about the coated caps with aluminum yokes.

There are coated joints, the issue is AAM doesn't believe in them, and also they figure once out of warranty, not there concern...so since depending on area and use it can take enough time for any galvanic issues to arise, upon factory they have the nylon which prevents it somewhat

The AAM joint is slightly smaller then the Spicer, Neapco makes AAM repelacements, but i haven't oredered any in a while and not sure they're making the 1485 AAM series with the coating..

What i do is mill the cap on the spicer and coat them myself with a emron/imron poly paint to prevent the electrolysis issue

Im not a fan of the aam joints, i see them either get 10k or 50k miles, very weird joint.
I personally machine the spicer and use them or the neapco.

Neapco was supposed to go to a grease-able version of the aam joint, the spicer needs to be machined a little or carefully thin the clips, evenly

Why shafts from the dealer are super cheap for the first few years:

OK 1 last time .....

When the manufacture builds a vehicle ALL the parts used on it are on a contract with all the OUTSIDE and IN-HOUSE companies for a certain period TIME...

DURING THAT TIME PERIOD, you couldn't... YOU couldn't buy the parts from ME... (driveline shop) even at MY cost cheaper then the DEALER of that manufactures vehicle will sell you the ENTIRE assembled PIECE.

Even though i am a dealer for spicer, aam, ect ect ect... I do not have a warranty CONTRACT period...

So for the time being SO YOU ALL save money .....


ONLY SEE THE DODGE DEALER for this SHAFT and NO other source....


AFTER the warranty period has run OUT, then and only then will going to the local driveline shop pay off and be cheaper....

 

[BDaugherty]

I rebuilt my rear driveshaft using the spicer life ujoints. They are slightly wider but that was easy to over come by using thinner retaining clips. Instead of the thick "c" clips that come with the ujoints, I bought some standard internal snap rings and used them. The difference in thickness matched up just right to the difference between the aam and spicer Ujoints. All of my buddies around here have done the same thing when it came time for their Ujoints to be replaced and we have all had great luck with the spicer parts.
These days, I even use the spicer parts in the AAM front axle shafts. I normally buy from Rockauto, but spicer is a available most anywhere although you might need to special order.

 

[brods]

So far I haven’t found a snap ring or spiral ring with the correct thickness (0 .005” less than the stock clip) to make up for the difference between the joints. Most snap rings I find are 0.050” thick which is 0.010 thinner than the stock clips. Though I guess it would be better for the joint to be 0.010 too loose overall with the snap rings rather than 0.010 too tight with the stock clips.

I do remember buying a joint, for my son's Ford iirc, which came with three different thickness clips, but I did not think to measure them at the time. It doesn’t appear the clips are sold separately. Something like this: #ad



I’ve just about given up. I am not going to spend $$$$ for a custom shaft only to have to monkey around getting joints to work properly with it. It has been very discouraging that so many driveline shops treat the 1410/1480 as interchangeable with the 1415/1485 joints. I just might follow your advise, buy another stock throwaway shaft and 50K miles from now when the pos aam joints are seized from rust try the spicers with snap rings.

 

[waywardtravel]

Brods I hate to bug you about your front shaft again but I'm a little confused.
The 2 shafts in your front shaft photo seem to have the same u joint cap size which you confirmed I believe.
The 1350 u joints are 1.188in or 1 3/16ths OD.
Can you mic or even put a tape measure on the cap width?
It's either 1 3/16ths or 1 1/16th which is pretty easy to see on a tape after getting dirty under there. lol
Thanks.

 

[cerberusiam]

If you stay with a steel shaft then that is probably what they are using, the AAM stuff with the Spicer joints. If you get the custom 5" drive shaft that is rated for the power and isn't a hollow resonator tube THEN you get the Spicer parts. The slip joint is custom and you get it from them as it is not available as a standard piece. The 5" shafts have a Spicer tube end on them, then you get the modified GM yoke with ubolts and all the AAM stuff is history.

No easy way around it, if you want to get rid of the AAM parts it is all custom shaft end pieces. The up side is once you do that 90% of the problems are gone also. The aluminum shafts are more durable, less likely to transfer harmonics, and you have standard larger u-joints than stock.

 

[brods]

Brods I hate to bug you about your front shaft again but I'm a little confused.
The 2 shafts in your front shaft photo seem to have the same u joint cap size which you confirmed I believe.
The 1350 u joints are 1.188in or 1 3/16ths OD.
Can you mic or even put a tape measure on the cap width?
It's either 1 3/16ths or 1 1/16th which is pretty easy to see on a tape after getting dirty under there. lol
Thanks.

The new front shaft has all 1.188" joints. The original shaft has 1.188s at the cv and 1.125 at the axle.
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[brods]

If you stay with a steel shaft then that is probably what they are using, the AAM stuff with the Spicer joints. If you get the custom 5" drive shaft that is rated for the power and isn't a hollow resonator tube THEN you get the Spicer parts. The slip joint is custom and you get it from them as it is not available as a standard piece. The 5" shafts have a Spicer tube end on them, then you get the modified GM yoke with ubolts and all the AAM stuff is history.

No easy way around it, if you want to get rid of the AAM parts it is all custom shaft end pieces. The up side is once you do that 90% of the problems are gone also. The aluminum shafts are more durable, less likely to transfer harmonics, and you have standard larger u-joints than stock.

Custom from whom? Driveshaft Specialists of Texas was trying to upsell me the 5" aluminum shaft. That was the shaft we were discussing when I asked if the slip yoke was really a 1410 or 1480 and he said they use genuine AAM slip yoke and flange yoke parts. What is the real deal??

 

[cerberusiam]

Good question. We were told that the 1480 tube ends were spicer and the slip yoke was custom built with a spicer joint end. The flange and slip yoke for a 1410 might very well be AAM parts for another application that uses the spicer joints. Maybe we were fed a line also and it is all AAM parts that are modified. So fas the DS solved the problems we had so if function is what you ar elooking for then th erest may not matter so much.

 

[brods]

Yeah sometimes ignorance is bliss.....well until the first u-joint change anyway. This process is no fun and if the first two shafts hadn't given problems at the first joint change then I probably would have remained happily ignorant. Can't unlearn what has been learned and if it comes to dropping almost a grand on a shaft it better be perfect! That kind of cash also opens other options, such as switching to a Ford NV271 fixed output and an older GM 14 bolt yoke with the aam seal sleeve.

I have no problems to solve other than what I consider excessively short u-joint life. I have a love hate relationship with the smarty (love how it wakes up the truck/hate the smoke) so it is on less than half the time and when it is its at the lower power settings. No lift, so no angle issues. Freespin kit, so no vibs from the front shaft. I just want a durable shaft which can use the Spicer SPL joints and hopefully will go more then 50K miles before the ujoint bearings rust. Aluminum is tempting, but logically I don't need it and whatever marginal savings it gives will not pay for its extra cost. A 4" steel shaft with 1480 joints is the target, though at this point I'd settle for 1410s to end this nightmare.

 

[cerberusiam]

The only thing we did not do was switch to the 271 fixed output. Could have on my sons 05 because it is a SB, mine is an LB so shaft exceeds the length they recommend. We looked at the shaft pretty closely and it all looks right with the 1480 joints and yokes. It sure solved the problem of the vibration and harmonics we had with his truck and fully expect it do the same on mine. Th eone upside was it quit causing leaks on the rear diff when we got rid of the vibes and harmonics. Can't help but think that will contribute to joint life also.

Not a cheap solution but seems very effective. Functionally, if we have to change ujoints in a LONG time I would be surprised.

 

[brods]

Well finally wrapped up the rear shaft and have some miles on it. Time will tell if it holds up better than the stock junk which was only good for 50K miles at best. I went with a Spicer slip yoke (which only comes in the 1410 u-joint size) SPL joints, a 4” steel shaft and a yoke on the pinion instead of the stock flange. Buyer beware, most everyone advertising slip yokes are reselling OEM AAM ******* sized parts. NOBODY makes a true 1480 slip yoke for the 271 tcase no matter what they advertise! If you push them they will admit they use the AAM 1485 yoke. When I was shopping even the aftermarket companies like PTI were (and probably still are) selling OEM AAM 1485 yokes listed as 1480.

There were a couple of issues which may or may not be a problem. One was the pinion rotating torque was way below specs when checking it before removing the OEM drive flange. It had no play when moved by hand. There is more gear noise under load and I do not know if it is because this shaft has no damper or the pinion bearings are going bad. They shouldn’t be with only 130K miles, but maybe the old shaft/u-joints wobbling caused premature wear? The next potential problem is the rear pumpkin is crumbling. I never had a rear end do this before. AAM continues to disappoint.

Some picts:
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