Here I am

Drove an 05 6.0 Ford for 1500 miles this weekend.

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New Cummins GDI diesel

Need help on a powerstroke

J,



i have to respond to you. so you are telling us that i am an idiot to say that going from 6. 0L's to 6. 4L's is not a new engine. Are you telling me that the injectors will be the exact same and the fuel system and the electronics ok... ... i normally dont do this but since mr. 11 posts acused me of being ignorant i will go ahead YOUR ARE THE MORON.



Just to let you know another thing that i heard is that they will use common rail injection and do away with the rompromp heui. All part of the rumor mill. I am insulting those who design not build this engine. What is so frigging great about a v-8 diesel anyway that they will not build the tried and true I-6. Cummins is not even having to use VVT turbos to meet imissions. A simple 325hp I-6 international now we might be talking. The only time a V style engine is used is when space is an issue. you could fit an 8. 3 cummins under that ford hood. now that would rock. 550axle 8. 3cummins, eatons transmission, wow that would be nice!
 
Come on..... we don't need to go down that road on every posted topic! Why do so many on this forum need to resort to name calling? Good Godd, can not you guy's hold a civil dialog where views are expressed and people feel free to engage in those conversations with out the worry of being bashed, flamed, or humiliated?

This is not the Diesel Truck Resource, where censorship rules and common sense isn't so common. Everyone should be allowed the privilege of posting his or her thoughts without the fear of reprisal or the humiliation of public condemnation. I enjoy hearing ever side to an issue, I welcome those with a different view to the same problem, and I would like to keep it that way. We do not need every big mouth to come down on those who see things different from them. You may disagree, and you might even get irritated, but you should never resort to the name calling that happens frequently on other forums. And if you can not abide to those simple rules, take you and your offensive self elsewhere, we do not need it here.
 
Well-said Y-knot. We need to police ourselves to others won't.



As for the Fords, well I'd be interested to drive one. I tested an '04 6. 0 with the TS transmission and wasn't impressed with the power, The trans was great, though. It felt much better than any Dodge Ram auto I've ridden in (admittedly, no DTT or ATS experience).



The seats seemed to be too narrow. All in all, I preferred my truck. The Ford I drove still had the leaf sprung front end, and it showed.



The 6. 0's growing pains haven't really given me a distaste for the Ford truck. It's actually soured me on FoMoCo itself. A little teething issues are to be expected. major problems are not good, but sometimes happen. Jerking around your customers and hosing them at every turn makes one lose trust in a company and its leadership.



I'm glad Ford built a new truck, and I think this could do good things for the marketplace. I'm a little sick of Dodge getting beaten to the punch with firsts (OEM brake controller, parking assist, etc). What does DC have against innovation? It seems they always wait for someone else to perfect it, then they offer it!



Let me say this, if *I* ran the Dodge Division, things would be very different indeed. No more leaving the Japanese and Germans to innovate with new technology. No more letting Toyota lead the way in build quality. There's simply no excuse for Dodge not being the best-- none at all. It's just a question of if they want to be. if you TRULY want something, you will pay the price and put in the extra time to achieve or earn it.



Dodge is 3rd in sales because they think like also-rans, not like champions. People are inherently brand loyal, but if you build a truly superior product, they will come. How many of us came over from Ford or GM?



If you build it, they will come... .



Justin
 
What does DC have against innovation? It seems they always wait for someone else to perfect it, then they offer it!

Admittedly I'm no expert or even a well informed baffoon, but one thing I've admired about Dodge is the innovation, e. g. slant six, the hemi, the Caravan (no not the first (volkswagon, subaru, and others but the US trend setter), Viper, SRT, PT Cruiser, Cummins in a pickup, the great gen2 styling, the solid axle with 5 link steering, Gen 3 hydroframe/suspension/big disc brakes. Cummins has worked hard on R&D. I've been happy with the Ford I had for nine years - solid truck. Never had a cheby, except for the LandRover with the cheby four-banger, which was a solid rig. My Dodges have treated me good. However, it has been the sweetness of the I-6 Cummins that has made a repeat customer out of me. :)



Although D(diamler) makes some great products, it seems their main mission with C has been to pinch the pennies, pump the bottomline, and cheapen the product. :{



As for Toyota, the cars may be reliable but IMHO the trucks are cheap tinny toys. The SR5 that I had for a year was a tiny tin can. Have you ever seen how a Toy squats-to-pee when you put any kind of load in the back? Albeit the engine was a dream to rebuild - after the timing chain wore through the cover and dumped a-freeze into the crankcase at 150K. Goodbye bearings.



END OF RANT. :) :rolleyes:
 
CATCRACKER said:
J,



i have to respond to you. so you are telling us that i am an idiot to say that going from 6. 0L's to 6. 4L's is not a new engine. Are you telling me that the injectors will be the exact same and the fuel system and the electronics ok... ... i normally dont do this but since mr. 11 posts acused me of being ignorant i will go ahead YOUR ARE THE MORON.



Just to let you know another thing that i heard is that they will use common rail injection and do away with the rompromp heui. All part of the rumor mill. I am insulting those who design not build this engine. What is so frigging great about a v-8 diesel anyway that they will not build the tried and true I-6. Cummins is not even having to use VVT turbos to meet imissions. A simple 325hp I-6 international now we might be talking. The only time a V style engine is used is when space is an issue. you could fit an 8. 3 cummins under that ford hood. now that would rock. 550axle 8. 3cummins, eatons transmission, wow that would be nice!
cc no one called you ignorant,or a moron so ditch the rude insults. you implied with your post ford is changeing to a 6. 4 engine,as if the 6. 0 was so terrible they are gettin rid of it. well a bore and or stroke job is still the same engine. a different fuel system is still the same basic engine,a different eletronic system is still the same basic engine. case in point the 5. 9 cummins it went through many different changes over the years,because it had to,but its still basicly the same engine. yes i do read and hear about the changes on the 6. 0 for the future,but so far nothing is carved in stone,and if these changes do occur soon one has to ask himself the question why? could it be the design was a poor one,well navistar has had very little trouble with the 6. 0 in its trucks. what about epa reasons?seems stupid the engine is so new ,that now its got to be changed already,so i doubt thats the reason. maybe its for more power and to still pass epa too,thats possible. then again maybe its the crap ford puts on them for electronics,i could believe thats the reason for the probs,naturally they would change that with a new model. now some food for thought,the simple cummins 5. 9 you think so much of,is not so simple any more either,and these newer designs arent lasting as long as the older designs did. my best friend for over 35 years has been a certified cummins mech for over 17 years,he works on these engines on a daily basis in logging and construction equipment,he claims these newer engines will on average see a rebuild or replacement in less hrs than a pre 24 valve engine will,you can think the epa and the fact that the average consumer is wanting more power out of them.
 
I have driven the 6. 0 Fords, and I have to agree, they do have some power, NOW! But I have also had the opertunity to work on a couple! They are a PITA! Take a look at the possibility of a serpintene belt replacement... ... ... ... ... ... . It would take at least 2 hours to get to it!

When it comes to working around a Diesel in a pickup, I'll take the CTD anyday!



Just my thoughts
 
OK OK OK... . Just an opinion... ... But if you change the bore, change the stroke, one or the other... then slap different heads on it, different fuel system... . you have changed the engine. A 5. 9 cummins has always been 5. 9 leters. 6. 0 to 6. 4, is an engine change. The cummins 5. 9 has evolved, but the bottom end has stayed the same since the beginning. No bore changes, no stroke changes. You change a Chevy 350 to a 383, that in my opinion is an engine change, it is no longer a 350.



Josh
 
JoshPeters said:
OK OK OK... . Just an opinion... ... But if you change the bore, change the stroke, one or the other... then slap different heads on it, different fuel system... . you have changed the engine. A 5. 9 cummins has always been 5. 9 leters. 6. 0 to 6. 4, is an engine change. The cummins 5. 9 has evolved, but the bottom end has stayed the same since the beginning. No bore changes, no stroke changes. You change a Chevy 350 to a 383, that in my opinion is an engine change, it is no longer a 350.



Josh
most likely the 6. 4 will be had from boring the block of a 6. 0,cheap, easy ,effective ,just like navistar did when they went from a 6. 9 to a 7. 3 . both the heads and the fuel system on a 5. 9 have been changed more than twice,some of the inards have been changed also,like the cam,the pistons even the rods are fracture split type now,just like the 6. 0 and the 6. 6 duramax are . if boring a 6. 0 and changeing the heads and fuel system make it a different engine,then with the exception of the boreing,the same applies to the 5. 9...
 
J ueckert said:
now some food for thought,the simple cummins 5. 9 you think so much of,is not so simple any more either,and these newer designs arent lasting as long as the older designs did. my best friend for over 35 years has been a certified cummins mech for over 17 years,he works on these engines on a daily basis in logging and construction equipment,he claims these newer engines will on average see a rebuild or replacement in less hrs than a pre 24 valve engine will,you can think the epa and the fact that the average consumer is wanting more power out of them.



Of course a newer engine making more power such as the 325/600 won't last as long as an older one making 180/420. Common sense; but it will long outlast a 6. 0 PSD. It's just that much stronger. I guess I'll settle for having to rebuild mine after 500,000 mi or so rather than the 1,000,000 mi versions! ;)



Dave
 
Ol'TrailDog said:
Admittedly I'm no expert or even a well informed baffoon, but one thing I've admired about Dodge is the innovation, e. g. slant six, the hemi, the Caravan (no not the first (volkswagon, subaru, and others but the US trend setter), Viper, SRT, PT Cruiser, Cummins in a pickup, the great gen2 styling, the solid axle with 5 link steering, Gen 3 hydroframe/suspension/big disc brakes. Cummins has worked hard on R&D. :



OTD, Uh, that's buffoon, but I don't think you qualify for the position! :D Au contraire, I think you are absolutely right. Ford and GM have been trying to play catch up for a long time. Did ya ever notice that the evolution of the Ford and GM bodystyles have mimicked the 2nd gen (except for Chevy's latest embarrassment, the "avalanche look") If you like the new '05 Mustang or the new T-Bird or the new Chevy roadster pickup, you can thank Dodge for the inspiration. Like the power of your new Z06 Vette? You can thank the folks at Chrysler for the Viper. I think Chrysler has been proactive rather than reactive for the most part the last decade or so. Who are they copying with the new rwd Hemi Magnum? It seems to me to be a bold one of a kind car. Take a look at the Jeep Rubicon or even the new Powerwagon pickup.

The 3rd gen Dodge pickups have raised the bar and the competition is now attempting to take over 1st place. Is Ford there now? Maybe but I doubt it; they finally went to the coil spring front end and maybe they'll be closer when the ditch the HEUI injectors in favor of the much superior common rail.





Dave
 
Maybe I'm missing something here?

I took a look on the Ford website and discovered that the "new" 6. 0 PSD is rated at 570 ft lbs (same as last year). So what we are comparing here is a 325/600 Cummins vs. a 325/570 PSD? Keep in mind that this is the same engine that got solidly trounced in the shootout at the 600's release. I printed out a copy and it states that using similarly equipped trucks (6spd's) and hauling a 13,000 lb gooseneck uphill, the Dodge tripped the radar at 48mph compared to the Ford at 42mph.

The Cummins also has way more low end torque and if you look at the torque curve, it isn't even close at the lower rpm ranges. Some of the new Dodge trucks are coming with a 610 ft lb rating. I'm not sure yet if this is a real increase or not, but in the past the Cummins ratings have been realistic.

Perhaps the torkshift is making better use of Ford's less powerful engine than the 48RE is with the Cummins, but if that is the case we are talking about small performance gains. I guess I have more faith in a back to back test of similarly equipped trucks towing identical loads on the same hill on the same day using a radar gun than I do with someone's seat of the pants test drive.

Go get an '05 F350 6spd w. 3. 73's and a Dodge 600 NV5600 w. 3. 73's, a trailer and a hill and let the test begin. Until then I will remain extremely skeptical of any alleged power advantage of the 570 ft lb 6. 0 PSD. But I'm sure the transmission is nice. ;)



Cheers,

Dave
 
Dave on a side, I'd like to ask you a question about torque. Please answer where the Cummins peaks in torque, in terms of RPM?



And, I'd like to know where the Fords peak occures as well.
 
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curatchko said:
Dave on a side, I'd like to ask you a question about torque. Please answer where the Cummins peaks in torque?



Going off of memory the torque curve on a Cummins is virtually flat from about 1400 rpm up to 2800 rpm. I'm sure someone can post a link to a dyno chart.



Dave
 
Well if it's flat it blows my theory away... I knew it peaked at 1500ish, but none of us tow at that rpm, nor does it even make full boost at that rpm. But if it's still close to 600 at 2200 then honestly it should pull better... especially this year as it has 40 more torque... . that's a lot!!! Time for a little German trans technology.
 
I was feeling kind of inadequate reading this thread, as my poor old 12-valve only cranks out 440 ft-lbs and 215 hp in its still-stock form, the one time it has been on the dyno (at Cummins) it mustered an awesome 162 hp at the rear wheels :p . Then it hit me... 440 ft-lbs in a 12-valve truck must be the same as 880 ft-lbs from a 24-valve truck :-laf :p TAKE THAT, all of you ETH/DEE, HO, and 6. 0 Ford weenies!



"Now begone wif yore peetiful leedle torque rah-tings, or I shall taunt you a SECOND time!" :p
 
y-knot said:
Who cares about your buddies Ford, the poster was comparing a NEW Ford from the model year 2005.



Y-knot, before you decide to be so ignorant and rant on someone, know the facts. My buddies truck is an 05, so yes I was comparing the same year. He has owned a 2003 F350 dually(last of 7. 3), a 2004 dodge 3500 with a 5. 9 HO and now the 2005 F-350. I was not stating just what I felt.
 
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yeah the 6. 0 is faster than the CTD but they still wont last as long or pull out of a hole like the cummins, , i know guys with 6. 0s with chips that still have to drop gears in places id never dream of... .....
 
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