DTT Mods?

[Joe G.]

I agree Wayne,



When Bill makes a criticism on technical grounds the replys attack Bill instead of showing where he is wrong. Usually say their customers are satisfied and all that, but no technical rebuttal. Then someone always chimes in with sarcastic remarks about DTT and DTT customers. Still no comments on the technical issues. If someone is satisfied with their product there is no need to bash the customers of the competition. In the case of a bad product or service then we would like to know about it.

 

[pwr2tow]

I was on this forum when some other transmission manufacturers tried to make a point about there transmissions and have a discussion with Bill about his and theirs.



There really was no discussion because the two main players never got to have a head to head confrontation because almost every one with a DTT transmission upgrade would jump in and cloud the issues with their opinions and DTT chanting.



The only real way anyone is going to get good information about a product is to let the big dogs go at it and the rest of us armchair warriors shut the hell up and learn.



Ron

 

[Reddog1]

ronsram1999,



I disagree that us armchair warriors should shut the hell up. If we had no questions, the Big Dogs would have nothing to discuss. You and I are important to the discussion and we must participate so we can learn. I am speaking professionally. As a teacher, I assure you that student participation is very important, even though it can become heated.



I bet we could agree that we have several exceptional Big Dogs (with diesel knowledge) on the TDR. These guys respond to our questions without being intimated.





Wayne

 

[pwr2tow]

reddog,

If you reread the post you will see I was referring to when the big dogs are going at it, not us want to beleave we know everything people. The questions from us arm chair warriors should come as questions not as sarcasium or bashing. The very most should be a good heated debate, not product favoritism just because I use it and that makes it the best, or I have been trained by this guy so I know it has to be the best, or I installed this product and it really performs because I have never used someone elses, or I used this product in the past when it was in developement and it was junk so their new products must be too.



Product favoritism does none of us any good, good old product craftsmanship is what counts.



What didn't work yesteryear does not mean it will not work today with some modern day technology intervention.



I will say it again as I have in the past, every mechanical product is prone to product failure. The longer a product is in use the better chances of a failure. If this was not the case then there would be no need for improvement except for man own laziness.



Ron

 

[pwr2tow]

I too do not want someone to calm me over with soft soothing words to cloud my judgement. By nature I am suspecious of why any one would act the way they do and constantly am asking, why.



I want solid, hard evidence of what works and what does not.



Ron

 

[Briar Hopper]

Well, ronsram1999, I like what you're saying. I too would like to see that happen. It's just that I don't think it will.

There's too much money involved in the diesel aftermarket now.

I'd like to see the "big dogs" posting too. Two vendors have expressed to me, privately, that they don't have time to get involved in a "dogfight".

It's impossible to have impartial, analytical product comparisions between some vendors, due to the highly competitive nature of the products, the money involved, and each brand's "cheering sections" that feel compelled to add their . 02 to the melee... .

 

[Reddog1]

I don’t take exception to anything you said. Product favoritism can be good or bad. When reading various posts, you can identify those of us that simply follow the advertisement agreeing something is good and those of us express our opinion based on our individual observations, experience or opinions of others.



I am also “…suspicious of why any one would act the way they do and constantly am asking, why”. I realize we cannot experience everything in life, and must accept some things on faith alone. There is one vender whose post I have greatly appreciated. By their own inadvertent admission, they are a copycat stealing others ideas and products. They make outrageous statements. TDR members have identified them as dishonest. I would not have known this without statements posted by them and others.



Briar Hopper, I agree in part with the notion some venders don't have time to get involved in a "dogfight". Unfortunately the vender and their potential customers are the losers. Marketing is part of doing business.



Please understand, my Ram is presently stock, and I am not obligated to any vender. Are you aware of any post made by DTT or its staff, which is other that Joe G expressed in his post above?



Let’s keep the "cheering sections" alive. Oo. Not many of us brag about a mistake we made.





Wayne



P. S. I bought my RAM not because of product favoritism or faith; I bought it because of the fact it is the best. Oo. Oo.

 

[DHRA]

Posting....

Bill has proven over and over that he has great knowledge of the product, and over time, he has tempered his postings to stay within TDR guidelines and keep the peace with the moderators. Bill is great at defending his product and even better pointing out the differences among other's products. He has a HUGE following which is very well deserved. I would imagine that alone, would be very intimidating to others that may want to bring their product to market.

The TDR can bring great success to any vendor that receives a warm welcome. It also can bring disaster just because of a poorly written post. This doesn't mean their lying or misguiding anyone, they just can't write eloquently. The recent members have a tendency to analyze threads to the point that in anyone's words can be found in error.

I reminesce of the early days when a product could be brought to the TDR and some would have great luck and others wouldn't. We would all learn from others experiences and make our own opinions. It wasn't a matter of "defending" your product, where did this attitude come from? It was a matter of people buying the product and using it, then writing an article about their experiences. Some will like DTT, some will like Dunrite, others will like Pro-Torque. SO WHAT??? it's okay guys. Noone is making a comment about your momma, so if you disagree, that's okay too. There is way too much :-{} on the TDR.

With all of this in mind, I try to think empathetically. Would I want to defend my product to what seems like a biased crowd? Would I want to take time to write a huge post, of which I have attempted before only to be ripped (ATS), or should I just lay low and let my product do the talking?

I am not for or against any vendor, but I absolutely hate this board anymore because of the attacks on not only my friends but many good manufacturers.

Bill, your product is top-notch sir, keep up the great work; ATS, welcome to the TDR and good luck with your product I know you have been around for a long time and we can only benefit from your knowledge. Remember, noone has to be the best, there will be people that like DTT and those that like ATS.

To Robert and TDR staff, I hate it for you to have a board full of children that keep great people from feeling free to lend a hand on these forums.



I hope to see everyone at Thunder at Muncie

 

[Briar Hopper]

Well, Eric, I could not have said it better. That is exactly how I feel. I hope more than a few others can see the good sense in what you wrote. I read it twice, you made so many good points.

 

[Cummins Corvette]

I too agree with Eric. Well said. LMAO too, these are just transmissions, they are not your mom.

 

[fortunate1]

Just a thought... . Most of these transmission guys (and a lot of other aftermarket products, for that matter) have their own websites. While some may have more technical information than others, all provide something to chew on. Maybe more could be listed there; I can see how time consuming it would be to check dozens of threads in TDR (and elsewhere, too) every single day to see where you might need to "defend yourself". Keep in mind that not all of a product's attributes are going to see publication - there are trade secrets, and nobody wants to give competition a road map to your success. I've also found that when I was interested in a technical explanation of something offered for my Ram, that a direct email or phone call would get me all the information I wanted. The people who sell these products are very willing to be forthcoming with info, maybe just not in your or my thread.

 

[Bill Kondolay]

Eric,



I couldn't disagree with you more. This thread and other heated ones are where members often learn the most. The oil threads come to mind, there you see members with different opinions based on experience. Who benefits? I do for one and I believe others do as well. Although I don't actively post on these threads I do enjoy reading and learning from them.



The major issue that started the controversy between ATS and DTT was when I posted on the thread that DRAMER started about their product where the supplied info was technically flawed. For those who don't follow what I am referring to, it was when he stated that they don't need pressure increases to facilitate their TC. As it turns out that proved to be an untrue statement. Some at the time felt that I "ripped" them however we now know that it is not a stand alone product as implied in that thread.



One of the reasons that I am an active member that posts on a regular basis is because I felt this website was one that people could use as a tool to become more knowledgeable. I just like everyone else I use this site as a resource for product information. As of late I see a trend developing where when someone isn't able to answer a question technically they just whine in hopes someone or a moderator comes to their aid.



If I made a blanket statement with technical flaws I would expect someone to correct me. I wouldn't expect them to be told to basically shut up and let the members try to figure it out for themselves. One of the beauties of this site wasthe fact that people were able to speak their mind without the fear of being censored. I feel that if this trend continues this site will become no more than a glorified magazine with little to no technical merit. While I recognize there is sometimes a need for moderators to step in, I don't feel that they should be censoring technical discussions.



Often people single out my customers for being overly aggressive, keep in mind that alot of them have had experiences with at least one or two other transmission manufacturers before they even got to me, while spending thousands of dollars only to do it again, I for one can't blame them. Personally I have been through the same thing with my race car and if there was a similar site for drag cars you can be sure that I would be posting experiences that I had.



Personally i dont read threads that dont interest me or that may offend me as they may be of interest to others.



We are all grown adults here, if we dont like something we dont have to read it. We definately dont have to complain to the moderators that we dont personally like the thread. Can you imagine if we all complained about each thread we did not like , with our versatile backgrounds and preferences would we even have a website left.

 

[JPS]

Well said!

Well said Bill,keep up the good work!!!!If I don't like a thread all I have to do is turn it off. Lets grow up here a little bit!!!!!

 

[DHRA]

Agree to disagree

Bill,

I disagree that the heated threads are useful. They usually turn into boxing matches of the better spoken. Someone usually gets very offended too. If another person called me technically flawed after all of the hard work I had done on my product, I would be so mad that I don't know if I could write a well composed reply. Then to be asked to prove you wrong seems to be approaching a new product from the guilty until proven innocent theory. Heaven forbid we welcome the product, then ask for a technical description, then if we disagree, that's fine. Mention why you don't agree, possibly without offending anyone. That's being adult about it and we (the TDR) can learn without having to wade through the BS to find the useful.

I respect our relationship Bill, I want to preserve it as best as possible. I only care about drag racing and providing the best show for the diesel lovers in this world. But all of this bickering is starting to interfere with that. I am tired of asking vendors to attend Thunder in Muncie and hearing "oh, it's TDR related" in a negative tone. We deserve so much more as we are already limited to the amount of products that are offered to the diesel industry.

 

[THerman]

As a fairly new comer to the TDR, I do a LOT of reading here, and I would have to agree with Bill to the usefulness of these types of threads.

I see Stacked's point though...



I personally am looking for content, I tend to skim most messages to see if I should read them further... so I tend to skip over a lot of the yelling match... . BUT I still think they serve a purpose, because I have lots of good info buried under the surface.



Guys, I don't agree with you all, but I'd fight to the death to make sure you were allowed to voice your opinion!



Tod

 

[Bill Kondolay]

Eric,



When a company brings a product to market they will get cross examined. I know i did and rightfully so.

I remember the battles when i told guys they could put power to the ground without using lockup devices.

When we as manufacturers make claims we had better be able to back them up. This is the age of instant information, companies can no longer make outlandish claims without feedback from other competitors and or customers.

This practice was once common and highly profitable and no longer applies.



You say you get negative feedback when mentioning it is a tdr event. I can imagine , as i know that this memership is very intelligent about their Dodge rams and cannot be as easily fooled as some of the consumers out there.



You think Dr. P likes the tdr membership, probably not . If you go by the ads he has the best product on the market, everything the Dodge ram owners could possibly want, more power with less fuel right? Fully tested system that doesnt void manufacturers warranty right? There's companies out there still advertising that you can make more hp with their products and still have Chrysler warranty. Doesnt that give that company advantage over a more honest company that is straight forward about the warranty isssue?



Transmissions seem to be more of a mystery to most consumers and gives the manufacturers a strong advantage over the consumers. The tdr is a good equalizer for the Dodge Ram consumer.



One more thing as for this company being intimidated by me, what a pile of bs, they had no problem phoning me at work and threatening me to back off or else. It seems the latest thing some of these companies are now doing is to sponsor certain respected members on the tdr to come after me, my products and my customers.



Let me say this , i am not easily intimidated and i dont take kindly to threats. If they cannot technically back up what they are saying they should not get involved in technical debates. We are talking about basic transmission stuff here, principles of operation its not trade secrets or rocket science.

 

[CUMINNTSTRKN]

Originally posted by Bill Kondolay

It seems the latest thing some of these companies are now doing is to sponsor certain respected members on the tdr to come after me, my products and my customers.

bill



as you know i'm one of the guys being sponsered, i have never felt that it was my duty to come after you or your products. you make a fine product, and it seems your customers are very happy with it.



bd gave me this transmission to try and break it, and to put on a good show at events, they have to get something out of there investment.



my transmission has only been in about 2 weeks and i feel i have put it thru the ringer. i am a tuff guy to please not only do i drag race and sledpull but i also tow heavy loads. with over 100 20-25psi 4wd launches i couldn't be happier. i will be honest if i break this transmission but so far it's great. i have tried to get the lockup to slip and i can't, even while towing 22kgcvw up 6-8% grades. i have a lockup switch so that i won't unlock. i ran 45psi up over snoqualmie pass pulling the trailer. the transmission i have is a off the shelf bd race convertor, and transmission built by steve. this way when people ask me about this transmission they can call up bd and order it.



the only problem i'm having with the new truck is that it's defueling in 1st gear. i've talked to chip, and brett and they are working on it. if i launch at 10psi it doesn't defuel but at 20+psi it does defuel. this isn't the transmission's fault, and we will get it fixed.



i should have never bought a stick, these auto's are a blast.

bill i consider us friends and rivals it's what makes this stuff so much fun.







jim

 

[Boldt's Wagon]

Can anybody can enter this mud pit? My say on the transmission wars is "When Bill and DTT entered the transmission service industry the bar/standard was raised, other competitors responded/are responding by improving their merchandise and service (or perish). " May Bill and his competitors continue with still more improvements.

 

[GLASMITHS]

Pressureloc on DTT?

Boldt's Wagon:



Do you need a pressureloc on a DTT transmission? I though it eliminated all the BD hang-on stuff.

 

[dramer]

Quote Bill K.

The major issue that started the controversy between ATS and DTT was when I posted on the thread that DRAMER started about their product where the supplied info was technically flawed. For those who don't follow what I am referring to, it was when he stated that they don't need pressure increases to facilitate their TC. As it turns out that proved to be an untrue statement.









This again is a mistake! The (Triple Disk) torque converter doesn’t need a line pressure increase to hold the clutches. Again I will (STATE FACTORY LINE PRESSURE) on a stock application. If the transmission is put behind higher horsepower & torque, than a increase is needed for the transmission to help it survive. We also do not use an external line pressure controller. This is what makes the new Triple Disk the best converter on the market! If there is any other confusions please let us know.