Dumb Wheel bearing Question

[rbattelle]

Well, I think I'm done for this weekend. I managed to SMASH my middle finger on my left hand with a 4-lb sledge. I don't think it's broken, but it sure is swollen! So I'm now working with only 1. 5 hands.



I measured a new bearing I have on hand and found that the steering knuckle is almost 1" thick in the center where the bearing sits. That explains why so much force is required to extract the rusted bearing.



I've resolved that, short of trying the power steering method, the best way is Steve's (and Daveshoe's) method. However, I don't see where there's enough room for the pressing tool to contact the steering knuckle around the bearing: there's very little (or no) room.



I'm going to put everything back together this afternoon since I have to drive to work tomorrow. I'll pick up a large size 7-ton puller this week. Next weekend I'll go ahead and pull the bearing apart and see what I can do.



Thanks once again for great engineering, Dodge. Glad you saved $1 on anti-seize lubricant when you built my truck.



On Edit:

I've attached a couple photos that show what we're all talking about here. In the truck photo, I've shown where the bearing/knuckle interface occurs. The photo of the new bearing is meant to show just how far (~1") the bearing sits in side the knuckle. I assume that the entire 1" area is rusted and fused (semi-permanently) to the knuckle.



I'm going to order a 12"x12"x1/2" piece of low carbon steel for next week in case I need to make the tool that Steve and Daveshoe describe. Is 1/2" plate enough, Steve? Or do I need to go to a full 1"?



Ryan

 

[rbattelle]

Thinking about the way this bearing mounts, I notice there's nothing (other than the 4 mounting bolts) that prevents it from rotating in the steering knuckle bore. I'm thinking that if I put the puller on the outer flange and apply some pressure (maybe 1 ton?), then place a punch at the arrow location and "go to town" with a sledge, I might be able to loosen it up by rotation. Just a theory.



Got the truck back together and road tested. I'll be back at this problem on Friday night.



Ryan

 

[JStieger]

Ryan-



I bought a puller from quad4x4.com



I did manage to bend the 1/2" plate on this puller as well as split the bearing when I removed the wheel bearing on the driver side.



Then my mechanic friend came over and said to me, "what the #$%^ are you doing??" He got his torch out and used localized (i. e. maybe 1 inch square area) heat on the knuckle as steved described and then the wheel bearing just popped off with light pressure on the puller in conjunction with one solid whack from a large rubber mallet. Between the torch, setting up the puller, and the rubber mallet whack, it took about a minute or two!



Between the localized heat and the slight puller pressure you could see the bearing just start to break free of the knuckle.

 

[rbattelle]

He got his torch out and used localized (i. e. maybe 1 inch square area) heat on the knuckle as steved described and then the wheel bearing just popped off with light pressure on the puller in conjunction with one solid whack from a large rubber mallet. Between the torch, setting up the puller, and the rubber mallet whack, it took about a minute or two!

Acetylene? I've only got MAPP... but I'll give it a try. How hot did the bearing and knuckle get? I mean, were they red hot in that spot? And where did he apply the heat - along the bottom like Steve?



Ryan

 

[JStieger]

Acetylene? I've only got MAPP... but I'll give it a try. How hot did the bearing and knuckle get? I mean, were they red hot in that spot? And where did he apply the heat - along the bottom like Steve?



Ryan

Ryan-



Acetylene - MAPP would work, but it would probably take longer and might spread the heat more than desired. He heated a spot that was easily accessible from the back side and farthest away from the ball joints. He heated it to the point where the small spot on back side of the knuckle barely started to glow red. The bearing itself didn't get hot since it was only the knuckle that was getting directly heated and the knuckle is very thick anyway. I could touch the bearing (carefully) with my bare hands without getting burned. Basically he was getting the knuckle to slightly expand so that it would break free from the rust or whatever. The action of it breaking free in a localized spot causes it to lightly break free in other spots that are nowhere near the heat. The heat with maybe one turn of pressure on the puller ram after contact was enough essentially to pop the unit bearing free.

 

[JLovas]

Good luck Ryan, their a bear to get off. Here's how I did it when I needed to replace a front u-joint... I loosened the four hub/bearing bolts our about half an inch, then put a 7 ton puller on the hub, put quite a bit of pressure on it. Next I used my air hammer to pound on the bolt heads of the 4 hub bearing bolts that I previously loosened. I used my impact socket on the bolt head when I pounded on it, so that I didn't damage the bolt heads... I basically destroyed my impact socket (snap-on) as the air hammer "end" mushroomed out quite a bit.



The oxy/act torch was next if this wouldn't of worked, as that is an excellent way to remove seized parts due to rust. I removed the hub/bearing on the other side the next weekend and replaced the u-joint so hopefully when the next front u-joint or bearing goes, either side will be easy to come off (lots of never seize used upon assembly).

 

[steved]

I think I'm going to go ahead and make the tool you describe. My only concern is the pulling on the outer part of the hub with the stub shaft as the forcing point. It bothers me to apply tons of force to the stub shaft, which will be borne by the differential.



Ryan

I have done several trucks this way with no ill effects... the axleshaft actually bottoms out on the axle tube, not the differential... so only the ujoint takes the abuse.



I'd rather do it this way than the "heat and beat" method everyone seems so fond of...



steved

 

[rbattelle]

I have done several trucks this way with no ill effects... the axleshaft actually bottoms out on the axle tube, not the differential... so only the ujoint takes the abuse.

If this is true, that is awesome. That would alleviate all my fears about applying gross tonnage to the bearing during pulling. I'm attaching 2 photos that show a zoom in on the axle tube and the stub shaft yoke.



Under normal conditions, there's a roughly 1/8" gap between the yoke and the axle tube (as indicated). Steve, you're saying the axle can slide back into the differential that 1/8" once the axle nut has been removed? Or are you saying that applying the pulling force to the axle stub shaft forces the axle that 1/8" into the differential until the yoke contacts the axle end? [I'd hate to think of deforming the differential 1/8"]



I know, I'll see for myself this weekend... but in the meantime I'll spend countless hours locked in a debate with myself about methods and possible consequences.



Ryan

 

[steved]

Acetylene? I've only got MAPP... but I'll give it a try. How hot did the bearing and knuckle get? I mean, were they red hot in that spot? And where did he apply the heat - along the bottom like Steve?



Ryan

Mine was only applied to the knuckle and only hot enough that it was just uncomfortable to touch... I used a small propane torch that sat under the knuckle for about 10 minutes... it had to heat the knuckle from about 15* so...



steved

 

[steved]

If this is true, that is awesome. That would alleviate all my fears about applying gross tonnage to the bearing during pulling. I'm attaching 2 photos that show a zoom in on the axle tube and the stub shaft yoke.



Under normal conditions, there's a roughly 1/8" gap between the yoke and the axle tube (as indicated). Steve, you're saying the axle can slide back into the differential that 1/8" once the axle nut has been removed? Or are you saying that applying the pulling force to the axle stub shaft forces the axle that 1/8" into the differential until the yoke contacts the axle end? [I'd hate to think of deforming the differential 1/8"]



I know, I'll see for myself this weekend... but in the meantime I'll spend countless hours locked in a debate with myself about methods and possible consequences.



Ryan

Yes, the axleshaft has enough play to slide back into the tube and contact the shoulder of the axleshaft with the tube...



And again, I have done several this way without any ill effect... I believe this method poses less potential for damage than either the hammer or PS methods do...



steved

 

[rbattelle]

Thanks for being patient with me, Steve. It's in my nature to over-think everything... and then think about it again... and again, and again...



Ryan

 

[rbattelle]

Well I'm back at it this weekend. I've got the 7-ton puller on it with quite a bit of pressure. I've been heating it up using MAPP and POUNDING THE SNOT OUT of the bearing where I noted a pin punch could be placed eariler. I bought a 1' piece of 1/2" 4130 (which is made to take impact loads) to use as a pin punch since I bent my 5/16" punch into a pretzel last weekend.



It's rapidly becoming clear to me that I can't do this without Oxy/Acetylene.



Maybe part of the problem is I can't get it hot enough with MAPP? I'll heat it for a minute or 2, which gets the localized temperature up to just over 300 degrees F (I have a thermocouple), which is nowhere near red hot. Plus, of course, the bearing also gets close to that temperature since it takes so long to heat.



Man, this really sucks!



Ryan

 

[rbattelle]

Nothing. A few hours worth of constant pounding/heating/pulling and nothing. Borrowed neighbors oxy/fuel torch outfit (one of those little guys), but ran out of acetylene before I could get the knuckle hot.



I've got the puller so tight I can barely turn the forcing screw with a 3/4" box-end wrench. I could put a breaker bar or 1/2" rachet on it, but I don't know if I want to just "go for broke" and risk separating the bearing, or if I should buy an oxy-fuel setup next week.



I also fear that if I separate the bearing I'll lose the use of the puller (since there won't be a flange there to pull on). If that happens, I'm not sure what to do (although I have at least 1 idea).



Ryan

 

[JLovas]

I would suggest that you get a good air hammer Ryan, they provide more of a punch than any other hammer in your toolbox. Back those four bolts (the ones on the back of the hub) out about half an inch, then use the air hammer to pound on the heads of the bolts (keep the socket on the bolt head to prevent damage to the bolt head). This, plus pressure from a puller has worked for me on both my front hubs.

 

[rbattelle]

I would suggest that you get a good air hammer Ryan, they provide more of a punch than any other hammer in your toolbox. Back those four bolts (the ones on the back of the hub) out about half an inch, then use the air hammer to pound on the heads of the bolts (keep the socket on the bolt head to prevent damage to the bolt head). This, plus pressure from a puller has worked for me on both my front hubs.

I'll have a chance to try that next weekend. That'll be weekend number 3 ruinied. I'm going to a facility where air hammers and other industrial machinery will be available for use. I'm either going to remove the bearing, or cut the knuckle out with a torch and replace it.



Ryan

 

[rbattelle]

GOT IT!!



Guys, I wouldn't wish that job on my worst enemy. Seriously.



We had to heat it up with acetylene, which still didn't budge it. Then we cranked down on the 7-ton puller, and that still didn't do it. We began to make slight progress when we started pounding the bearing with a 14-lb sledge



The bearing ended up separating as a result of the pounding and the 7-ton puller, but thank God the inner part of the bearing began to separate from the knuckle just as the bearing halves separated.



Then it was another 30 minutes of pounding with a cold chisel and 4-lb sledge to gradually (very slowly) work the bearing out from the knuckle.



I cannot overemphasize what an unbelievable nightmare this was. I've lost at least 5 years off my life from the anxiety of it all.



Tomorrow I'll pull the axle shaft, replace the u-joint, install a new bearing, and hopefully everything else is all right.



One of the scariest parts was turning the wheels full crank with the puller pulling with thousands of pounds so we could get access to pound on it.



God, I hope I didn't damage anything.



Ryan

 

[dezeldog]

Well I hope tha ti don't have that much trouble with my 2wd. It is just now starting to make some noise and I'm wondering what the procedure is for RnRing the bearing/hub assembly from a 3500 2wd. Also are these a dealer only item or available aftermarket. Any tips are appreciated. TIA



Jim

 

[MickeyMiller]

I bought the Dynatrac front hub kit and was going to install it myself... . NOT after reading this thread! Can anyone recommend a good shop to install the Dynatrack locking hub kit in the San Francisco Bay Area? Preferably East Bay, I live in Livermore.