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Yo Hoot

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Looks like the limits are in the 600-700 hp range. Rods are bending in this range also. GM knows it and has redesigned the block in the 06 LBZ. Good news is normal drivers have nothing to worry about, the engine is far from weak.



I did not post this to trash the Dmax. This is information only. You can see the whole thread on The Diesel Place



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I saw a connecting rod off of a durmax that failed at 670, it was twisted like a pretzel. Everything has a limit to how hard it can be pushed.
 
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i had a guy at a local parts store tell me one of his customers has a D-MAX with 900 hp :rolleyes: ..... and it was a single turbo, ..... 900 TQ maybe,

and no drugs.
 
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Keep thinking that about the G. M. Duramax , the reason most of these fail, is unit loading from running the engine at too low a RPM and not using the incredible breathing ability of the heads. This motor will be the one to beat in the near future. With head flow in the 325 CFM and the fact that there is 4 more intake valves the total CFM per CID is about 50% greater in addition to having 35 more of them . I’ve seen a Duramax a 800 + hp on a super flow 901 this was on diesel only . this motor was built for endurance racing so , there is a lot left in the mix
 
is there a chicken loose in this place?!?!



banks banks banks banks banks banks banks banks banks banks



I know I can hear clucking...



Heads don't matter Sh#$ if you have a line cast into the motor block as part of your main assembly.



I still stay. . DOHC cummins... end all of this end all to be all debate. .
 
Yea I might say those things too, till Jim Jones handed me *** to me with a STOCK TURBO'D duramax this summer..... don't under estimate them... ... I don't... ... now!



Jim
 
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COMP461 said:
Keep thinking that about the G. M. Duramax , the reason most of these fail, is unit loading from running the engine at too low a RPM and not using the incredible breathing ability of the heads. This motor will be the one to beat in the near future. With head flow in the 325 CFM and the fact that there is 4 more intake valves the total CFM per CID is about 50% greater in addition to having 35 more of them . I’ve seen a Duramax a 800 + hp on a super flow 901 this was on diesel only . this motor was built for endurance racing so , there is a lot left in the mix



Getting the numbers isn't being questioned here.



It's keeping the rods from bending and the block from exploding that is the issue.



If you can only do one season at 800+ before a catastrophic failures are you successful? If you win yes... but at what point does cost matter?



I do agree, theory wise, that the breathing potential of the Max does give it an advantage as well as the heat dissipating characteristics of the aluminum heads.



Diesels get lugged all the time whether they should or shouldn't. Part of the arguement against the Max is its a higher revving engine. Good for drag racing I guess but the Cummins has a better all usage overlap.
 
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Exactly my thoughts. .



I'm not in any way opposed to the way that Dmax engines opperate. With respect to power, you can have one of those trucks at a moderate price and build massive amounts of power... . And the V8 lends it's characteristics to speed.



All i'm saying is, quit with the potential aspect of it... Do it, get it done. No more of this "Respect this engine because IT COULD... ... . " Mine COULD make absolutely ungodly amounts of power. So COULD an overhead cam cummins... and i'd like to think that ford/international is in the running but I don't know about them anymore.

Hypothetical "well i'm gonna throw in a complete bottom end, port the heads to the max, gun drill oil galleries everywhere, throw on twin turbo's and dyno the hell out of it. "



The Cummins is respected because you can mod it to pull those numbers and it will stay together... We don't have to wait on another block casting... We can do it now. Thats all.
 
When you plan an engine build for racing - DURABILITY is a key concern... ... ... . For me anyhow- I'll stick with my tried and true and durable Cummins thank you. .
 
Neil,

I never got a chance to purchase the one on ebay. I have always wanted a diesel, but spending 15k on one is just too much. A 72" isn't really practical for me, but it is impossible to find a 60" diesel anywhere. Rumor has it that dixie chopper is coming out w/ one as well as hustler that will be affordable and a 60".



??? where is the dyno graph? I have never seen 800hp on drugs much less motor w/ a duramax.
 
biggy238 said:
Exactly my thoughts. .









Hypothetical "well i'm gonna throw in a complete bottom end, port the heads to the max, gun drill oil galleries everywhere, throw on twin turbo's and dyno the hell out of it. "





If you going to stay ahead of the pack you have to do this anyway, you think the so called big guys arn’t spending big money on theirs.



Just like Pro Street, I’m currently advising a completely ,to the letter of the law truck, under construction. It’s waiting on the chassis to be delivered from F. J. Smith . It’s a 06 Chevy constructed to super stock / modified truck specs. Chevy provided the body in white , and the engines is in the works . Single turbo with no nitrous. To think that you don’t have to spend money and dyno time is to be living on the outside looking in, from the other lane
 
If you're going to stay ahead of the pack you have to do this anyway, you think the so called big guys aren’t spending big money on theirs.



I know the money is big. . Thats why I don't compete. :D I can't justify having a truck worth more than a house that could last my family 5 generations. .



What i'm saying is that the duramax crowd currently is behind the others in this area, not that they aren't capable. The cummins bottom end is sound at the power levels that the block in the photo couldn't handle.



If you are going to purpose build a block to handle it, the cummins could be done the same (as you intend to do) and then it doesn't matter because they aren't factory pieces. That's where the respect comes in. You can respect that a layman can take a seasoned cummins and toy with it to a high power level without re-engineering it. It looks like the so called leader in diesel motorsports knows the dmax can't do the same and now others are finding it to be true also.





Just don't make such accusations that it could do this and it could do that, if currently it is not. You yourself has had great issues with that school of thought.

I have faith in your cummins program because I know it can be done. The duramax boys are too young to command any real respect just yet.



Ofcourse, being a non(motor)sportsman, I mean this in the most sportsmanlike of manners.
 
COMP461 said:
If you going to stay ahead of the pack you have to do this anyway, you think the so called big guys arn’t spending big money on theirs.



Just like Pro Street, I’m currently advising a completely ,to the letter of the law truck, under construction. It’s waiting on the chassis to be delivered from F. J. Smith . It’s a 06 Chevy constructed to super stock / modified truck specs. Chevy provided the body in white , and the engines is in the works . Single turbo with no nitrous. To think that you don’t have to spend money and dyno time is to be living on the outside looking in, from the other lane



So ya gonna dump big bucks into holding that block together?
 
JPlybon said:
Not to change the subject but what is the most miles someone has got out of a bombed DMAX? Or still getting.



Not an answer easy to come by. I think under 450 rwhp they will last 100,000+

They didn't start having catastrophic failures until over 500 rwhp. It's a tough motor mechanically up to it's breaking point and the new 06 LBZ has a toughened up block for the 360 rated hp stock.
 
I am of the opinion that the DuraMax block in the picture failed ,not because of a weakness in the block , but as a secondary event, to a rod failure. The rods in this motor are fairly strong to the failure point , the failure point is also related to the tune up.



As in any other form of motor sports when you break a part, you do a post failure analysis and extrapolate the primary cause of the failure and any other contributing factors. The primary cause of DuraMax failures are rods integrity and crankshaft flex. These failures become more apparent and exaggerated in lower RPM from over unit loading of these parts . as RPM goes up the ability of the engine to produce these loads need to cause failure of parts goes down . and from this we learn that if we can raise the RPM that we make peak power we can make these parts live at a higher HP level . this goes hand in hand with making more usable HP .



In the motor sports engineering community there is only one way to produce more useable power , whether its in a Indy car , NHRA stocker or a diesel drag racing engine , that is to burn more fuel with the proper corresponding amount of air. There are two ways to achieve this , first make the physically motor bigger , or trick it in to thinking its bigger . that is make it have more actual displacement or make it think its bigger by artificially raising the pressure in the intake track above atmospheric. So there we have it , more CID or more boost.

Second is to make it have more power pulses , there by burning more air and fuel or in simple terms turn it more RPMs and this in my opinion is the only answer to making power and not breaking parts.





Now how to achieve this ,

Improve cylinder fill , this is achieved with better cylinder head intake track , and camshaft design. If you have less restriction thru the intake track , and the cam works in conjunction with the heads air flow map. then you turbo can move more CFM of air in the sweet spot on the turbo’s map. Now that you have air flow you can rev the motor up , creating more power pulses per minute and thereby making more total power. The RPM this is achieved is well over the torque peak and provides less stress of the weak links in the motor.



The DuraMax has many advantage over the other motors such as big journal cam cores , 60 mm and very stable valve train. This allows the valve to be controlled in a more precise way achieving maximum window to flow air through , and not have long seat timing that hinders cylinder pressure issues the heads on the DuraMax are in max ported form approximately 75% better in air flow then the Cummins aside from being a 125 lbs lighter.
 
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