dying Getag 400 mi from home

[MMiller]

OK, I can see no visible damage to the syncros or anything else on the output shaft other than the trashed pilot bearing and there is a little deformation onthe tips of the teeth on one of the blocker rings next to the synchro next to the pilot bearing.



Do I just replace the input shaft and the pilot bearing or do I disassemble the entire output shaft for inspection? The spin test feels good everywhere. The manual says the snap rings are not to be reused and it looks like a PITA to take apart. I do have a 12 ton shop press, cutoff wheel, chisel, and friends who are mechanics.



Thanks for all the experienced advice.

James, you are right, there is a lot in the archives about this transmission. I am hoping that since my transmission is from a wrecked truck with only 86 k miles that they towed the truck in neutral and trashed the pilot bearing that way. I probably have 2-3 k miles on it since then.



Ken

I want to make sure I know what you are talking about, and clarify..... Do you mean the pocket bearing?



Michael

 

[MMiller]

In the bearing kit, they send a cup for the pocket bearing, that is not used in a getrag. I look at a input shaft, and am tempted to have it machined out for the cup, but don't know if the shaft would have enough meat left in it to support the load of the shafts fighting each other while under load... ... .



Michael

 

[1stgen4evr]

"In the bearing kit, they send a cup for the pocket bearing, that is not used in a getrag. I look at a input shaft, and am tempted to have it machined out for the cup, but don't know if the shaft would have enough meat left in it to support the load of the shafts fighting each other while under load... ... . "





Michael I believe if you could get the surface reground, then shim the bearing a few thousandths, you could well reuse the input. Often with an older (higher miles) situation, there will be other problems with the input shaft that make it unusable anyway.



Ken I can tell you that when I lost my pocket bearing from towing, I had to have the mainshaft bearing tang rebuilt. (You will know if the bearing isn't fused to the mainshaft. ) All this happened to me long before there was the help from TDR. I had connections to get the grinding done relatively cheap so the repair wasn't the killer that it was for those early owners who experienced Getrag failure. I disassembled the entire main shaft and used all the original parts going back. There may be some discoloration of the parts near the failed bearing. I used everything. Compare the syncro rings with those on the 4/5 shift group. There had been a small amount of transfer of metal from the (dry, hot) aluminum fork to the shift collar. I didn't get that as completely cleared as it should have been. There was a tremble in the shift stick that didn't go away till I had the transmission out (and cleaned up the collar)much later at another occasion of reshiming.



I put a new input shaft with a new input shaft bearing and a new pocket bearing. All those parts ran another 400k miles (with a couple of reshim episodes along the way). On one ocassion, I put new countershaft bearings and probably should have done that when the original problem happened. (metal fragments in the oil) I still have the transmission and could likely rebuild it with minimum cost.



My truck is two wheel drive and I have only one rebuild of a fwd to my credit. I have no issues with the Getrag. It has done me a great job. I would repeat that my transmission has run with 85aw since the original rebuild. You can find my comments in the archives.



Look for witness marks of damage and read the comments of shimming. Michael has some real good info regarding the Getrag as well. See his comments in the archives.



Good luck and best result.



James

 

[Moab4x4]

Output shaft back together!!

I appear to have lucked out! My pocket bearing (yes my typo earlier) is toasted. That appears to be all. The bearing came off the mainshaft with the big press with just some discoloration from heat on the shaft. There was material transfer on the front blocking rings so I replaced them (cheap anyway). I have a new input shaft, but I agree that I think the old one could be reground. I will save it. Hey, at least I now have a clutch alignment tool. :-laf
I went ahead and got a bearing kit due to the metal in the oil, countershaft bearings were discolored from heat and probably metal particles.

I checked the flywheel pilot bearing that I got from quad4x4 with the dial indicator. The machinist did a very good job with the runout measuring < . 002 and that was likely my indicator rest and block movement as I cranked on the barring tool. So much for that theory.

Thanks again for all the help guys!! I feel much better now. I should have it together by the time the transmission jack gets here.
Ken

 

[Moab4x4]

Reverse Idler Gear

FSM says that if there is more than . 010" endplay on the reverse idler gear then the thrust washers should be replaced. Does anyone actually do this? If I measure at the pins, I have . 016 and if I measure where the FSM says to I have just over . 020. I am not inclined to wait for new thrust washers at this point. Opinions?



Transfer case coupler question: What do you use to lube the Getrag to 205 coupler? At first I thought my coupler had a fine rust in the coupler then upon further examination it is a reddish dry lubricant powder. There is no evidence of rust anywhere. My auto truck was lubricated with dextron due to rear seal leak.

I am inclined to use synthetic multipurpose lube as that is what I have. Opinions?



I will post the pics that I have taken of this process to help those in my boat. With all the help I have gotten here, to quote others here, this really hasn't been that bad.

Ken

 

[1stgen4evr]

I would probably run the idler just like it is. The spec is for a new transmission. Were there any problems before in that regard? Would there be an obstruction if it wore much more? Do you use reverse very much?



reddish dry lubricant powder- - -- Rust with an oily base? I used antiseize on the only fwd that I worked on.



James

 

[PToombs]

At work we use Molykote on alot of the pump shaft splines. Seems to work ok.

 

[Moab4x4]

I would probably run the idler just like it is. The spec is for a new transmission. Were there any problems before in that regard? Would there be an obstruction if it wore much more? Do you use reverse very much?

James

No problems with it before. You echoed my feelings. Yes, the FSM supplement says to replace the thrust washers if the clearance is above . 010, but the only affect that I can see at this level is a smidge of extra reverse backlash. No problem for me. Some factory specs are to be adhered to exactly, This one I can't see as long as the gears are lining up correctly.

reddish dry lubricant powder- - -- Rust with an oily base? I used antiseize on the only fwd that I worked on.

James

I am sure that it is not rust. This area between transmission and xfer case has no rust whatsoever. The coupler is clean and not a spot of rust. After rinsing out the red stuff, the metal looks pristine. There are quite a few things that make me think my parts truck saw little use and great care until it got hit by the drunk.

The red stuff had a feel like a very very fine dry lube, almost like a boron nitride powder that I used to use.



In any case, it is greased with hi-temp synthetic grease.

Thanks,

Ken

 

[Moab4x4]

Thanks to All!!!

Thanks all, I now consider myself a member in good standing of the Getrag Preservation Society. The truck runs, with a quiet transmission that shifts like a dream.
For about 300 in parts, 200 in tools (including 1200 lb overkill transmission jack), 100 in shop supplies, and two full days I have a rebuild Getrag (and a few sore muscles). Oo. It wouldn't take as long to do it again as I would know some things to watch for. I count myself lucky.
I got the 1200 jack as much for the extended lift range as for the weight rating.
I didn't replace my throwout bearing as the old one only has 90k miles. I figure that when it goes it will be time to reset the preloads.

One note. When ordering shim kits, be sure to order output shim kits not input shim kits. Somehow the parts house and I got our wires crossed and I got the wrong ones. Same ID, but slightly different OD. It worked, but still...

I will try to compile some of the posts that helped me the most and some pics into a general Getrag Help thread. There were posts from James, Michael, Terry, Bill, and others that were invaluable and educational. Thanks Jay for the essential Getrag supplement download. I love printed manuals, you don't care if you get them all greasy. I am uploading some Getrag pics to the gallery. Search under Technical, keyword Getrag. https://www.turbodieselregister.com/photopost/showgallery.php/cat/506/ppuser/993219

Oh yeah, anyone know where to get an alignment screw for the top of the shift cover? The slotted screw that looks like a set screw from the outside that goes in and aligns the shift lever? One of mine lost the metal on one side of the slot when I tried to loosen it. Half of the diameter of the larger diameter part of the screw just popped off. I hope that makes sense, you would kind of have to see how it broke to believe it. The screw is in and aligning things, but I cannot adjust it or remove it from the outside and it leaks a tad, so I should replace it, but it's not keeping me off the road.

If I fill to the top of the 1/2" tee I am overfull by 1 qt at least on the bench.


Thanks again,
Ken

 

[dpuckett]

I've had the set screws for the shifter break like that. It is kinda weird that the things are so brittle. I'd put some loctite or anaerobic sealant and forget about it. Since you have a provision for overfill without removing the shifter, you wont need to remove the screws for another 200K mi.



I'd recommend changing the oil after about 500-1000mi- give stuff a chance to get well acquainted again, and then flush out the gunk.



DP

 

[PToombs]

Ken, I did sorta the same thing with my filler. I used a street ell, (90*) with a close nipple. I used a pipe cap and welded in a piece of rod for a dipstick. Added the extra qt, then filed a notch on the rod. Works good!

Glad you got it fixed.

pete