dyno results for my "bombed" 01.5

[Ramafid]

Iceman,



Why don't you go to Capital Raceway in crofton? They have a test and tune on friday nights from 5pm till 11pm. It only costs 10 dollars to run and then from the numbers you get for 1/4 mile ET and speed you can figure out your HP. After running at the Raceway take your truck up to the Truck stop in Severna Park ( I think its exit 10 off of I-97) and weigh your beast. Costs 7 dollars I think. You will then have all the info you need to figure your HP. Just an idea.

 

[**ICEMAN**]

RAMAFID,,sounds like a plan to me. wanna hook up and go together sometime?

kat,,there were other trucks dyno ing at mid 300's

fdziruda,,i read the graph wrong,,282 hp was at 2700 rpm. ,, 621 lbs torque was at 2100rpm.

 

[Todd T]

Iceman, let me try to explain how a Dynojet Dyno works.



it has a drum that your truck turns. the drum does not really have a set weight or resistance on it. it is just a drum with two pickups 180 degrees apart on it.



those pickups are timed through the software to your vehicles Tach signal. or the optical pickup. to coordinate them to the graph you look at.



when you accellerate the measurement is taken from the time the recorder is started untill it is stopped. it measures the speed of the drum and how long it took to accelerate it to that speed.



now for an example. a manual has a rpm range that it runs in for each gear, it is one to one in fourth gear to the engine. so if you idle the truck up to an rpm or MPH and then start the timer and punch it. the drum is spun up real fast (speed) in a short amount of RPM's (time) normally they will start around 1500RPM's or higher, so those readings will look great because it sped up real quick. which in theory means it took XYZ amount of HP and torque to do it, that fast, that quik. right?



well with your automatic it usually downshifts and with the slippage of the converter it takes the engine longer to go through the RPM range and peak out. (longer time for the recorder to record) because it took longer, the software calculates that you have less HP and torque. unlike with the manual, the transmission has to build pressure before the converter truely flashes out. which doesnt happen until the operator floors it, from the coasting/starting speed (which is after, he hits the start button, taking more of that precious time)



now if you take a Mustang Dyno, it has calibrations on it. an the drum itself can simulate the weight of the vehicle through resistance and the brake. now you are on an equal playing field, instead of idleing downhill, you are in the throttle just as much as you would be out on the road at that speed, with the same amount of resistance against the drive train too. actually you will see that the readings will be lower across the board (auto's and manuals) this is because unlike that resistance free drum on the Dyno Jet you now have to push the drum and its spinning mass and/or its simulated mass, before you get through those RPMS.



this is harder to do, and will reflect that more accurately in the readings.



sorry so long...

 

[KatDiesel]

I am leaving to go dyno on a Mustang dyno right now. I have some very interesting info I'll reveal later tonight on this issue. I got an email from a very knowledgeable source. It just came out of the blue, I was extremely impressed witht the time it took to write it in the first place! More to come later tonight... ... ... ... .....

 

[Mopar-muscle]

dynojet ...

todd , that was the problem i had when i tried to do a rollon in third , the place i went they let the truck owner apply the loud peddle , as soon as he put on the load the truck downshifted and started from 1st all over again . so after that i just floored it from idle and we just let it wind thru the gears up to about 3500 rpm in 3rd . when i turned on the PE to level 3 i hit 371 , egt never went above 1200 and my boost was down at 34psi , on the ride there i could pin my egt and hit 44 psi so i know the load wasn't there and my readings were low , as were everyone else that day .



ice are you planning on going to the diesel nats at englishtown in a couple weeks ? i'll be there ,i can check your truck out then , bring 16 qts of fluid and a drain pan ... if you have amsoil in it bring something clean to catch the fluid in so we can put it back .

 

[CUMINNTSTRKN]

todd



i have my truck dyno'd at least 100 times, mostly on dynojets. but i have at least 20 passes on a mustang. the biggest problem with the dynojet is the drums only weigh 4400lbs total and my truck weighs in at 7500. so what that really means is that i don't build any boost until really late in the rpm's. when i dyno'd 492 in spokane with everyone my peak for torque was 2700rpm and hp was over 3000. and my trq #'s are always at least 100ftlbs low. something i've tried on dynojets is to upshift to 6th gear and my trq #'s come up and the rpm's come down, becuase i'm able to build boost. the reason i didn't do this in spokane was becuase nobody else was doing it. the other problem with dyno's is the correction factor. at sea level it's no big deal but at 6500ft it throws a monkey wrench in everything. i've been told that a turbo motor doesn't lose as much as a naturally aspirated motor does at high elevations. when i'm at bd this oct i will be able check the mustang dyno at edge products which is at 6500ft versus the one at bd's which is at 300ft i think. i feel the dynojets are more repeatable than the mustangs. when we had the dyno event at edge ddrawson and heber ram both said they lost like 50hp in about a week. on the same dyno.



remeber the people with dtt products your trq convertor doesn't lock up. bill said in a 325 rwhp truck that you"ll lose about 20-25rwhp with out lockup,





jim

 

[**ICEMAN**]

thanks todd t.

i just talked to bill k on the t/c saver issue and he's sending me a new one(i knew he would take care of that problem). he seems to think the dyno tech didn't have the t/c locked up which would show a loss of approx. 9% hp. bill also thinks that i'm way over boosting at 45psi WOT. also we talked about fuel press. ( mine is 0psi with the pmx3 on 9 at WOT. we believe that i'm starving the beast of fuel and that most likely the boxes are performing the best they can with the fuel they are getting. i still need to call tst and get some info. do the powermax'es defuel at 2700rpm?

 

[tmacc]

Hey Iceman and Ramafid. Let me know when your going to Capital. I'd like to go w/ you.

Tom

 

[**ICEMAN**]

had a long talk today with mark @ tst. he believes as i and bill k said. starving it of fuel at heavy throttle. i did learn that the pmx does advance timing and it does defuel at 2700rpm. i'm sending the box to him to check it out anyway and to also reprogram it to be a pmx3 "competition" box which defuels at 3200

 

[Ramafid]

Iceman and Tmacc,



I'm all for going to the raceway. The problem is I can't get away from work until the beginning of October unless an unexpected schedule change happens. If you guys don't want to wait that long I understand. I'm shooting for Oct 12 to get to the raceway. Let me know if this works for you all. Oct 5 might work for me also.



Anthony

 

[**ICEMAN**]

after all this talk about fuel pressures etc,,guess what just died? ole mr. lift pump!! it shut the truck down like right now in the middle of the interstate and barely got it to the shoulder. the rear was actually stickin out in traffic a little. it flashed check gauges,,check engine the quit. my wife was driving it when it puked. she also was the first to experience the death wobble in the 94. she's not too happy with dodge trucks right now. i had to hurry and remove all my" toys" and put it on a rollback and headed to the dealer. kinda helps explain the bad dyno run,,runnin out of fuel. what is the new lift pump # i had seen on here that i cant seem to find?? wanna make sure they get the revised one on there.

tmacc,,ramafid,,,i'll get back to ya

 

[Neal Cassady]

Lift Pump Number

Lifted from Steve St. Laurents thread a while back.



"The Cummins part # is 3990105 for $139. 08 and the harness is # 4025182 for $7. 13



You ONLY need the harness if you have a 1998. 5 or 1999 truck - if you have a 2000+ model then you don't need the harness, it hooks right up to your existing wiring. This info was right from the guys at D/C and Cummins that would know. These pumps have just become available in the last couple of weeks. "



Dave

 

[**ICEMAN**]

thanks dave d ,,, i might as well get the tsb 18-024-00 done while it's there also. i hate the feeling of someone else under the hood of it,,driving me nuts. service manager called and said they are backed up and might be till next week getting to it. bull crap!!i should have just got it home and put my own pump on. if i get mad enough i will be in their lot installing my own pump over the weekend.

 

[Mopar-muscle]

ice , do yourself the favor and go to cummins and get the pump , the less you have to deal with the dealer , the better , its takes barely an hour to change the pump , done from the top side . thats stupid that they will make you wait till next week .



i bet if you were bringing it in for a lift pump and it wasn't warranty that it would have already been fixed and in your driveway ...



oh and on the timing change of the PM , the change is only with the injector being open from more fuel pressure during the fuel shot . if it doesn't connect to pump pre electronics or the cummins bus connector it IS NOT changing timing like the EZ or VA or others that connect PRE electronics ...

 

[**ICEMAN**]

so am i correct in assuming that not having enough fuel to feed the beast is what caused this?

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I strongly disagree with the above assessment of dynamometers. Unfortunately this is not the first time we have been exposed to vast pronouncements on this forum that are based upon meager information. The Dynojet is simple and foolproof. The software is straightforward and accurate. Parasitic losses are minimized. Check out how hot the tires get on a Mustang or other double roller dyno, and you will see how parasitic losses can become a problem--energy and horsepower converted to heat instead of being accurately measured.



There are only three limitations to the Dynojet:

a. untrained operators

b. SAE or other correction factor programs are set up for normally aspirated engines so at high altitude the corrected hp is a bit high for a turbo engine--on the order of a couple % per 1000 ft at most.

c. our turbo engines make more power after spoolup because more fuel can be burned. This takes time and the engine is accelerating at the same time. With the torque peak coming at low rpm, full boost/power has not been achieved yet and peak torque is measured lower than its potential if the engine had realized full boost at that point in time, very soon after the start of the run. More load helps, and that is why Lawrence Bolton has experimented with high slug dyno conversions. It's also why the hp will be more accurate in overdrive--more load on the engine.



Even with these minor limitations, the Dynojet is the most accurate and reproducible dyno I know about. It is also by far the most amenable to high hp Rams. Double roller setups experience far too much parasitic loss and irreproducibility over around 400 hp with our Rams. However, as the more traditional type of chassis dyno, there is a long history of their successful use and they are still good. I just feel the Dynojet is better based upon the results I have seen with both types.

 

[Mopar-muscle]

thanks for that update oh SOTD ..... where you been O diesel polluter of the nevada desert ?



i have yet to get on a mustang , but am going to try to get back on the dynojet i was on with new info in hand and put the ram in OD to see if it does make the difference .



ice , did it feel like the engine was falling flat on its face , any stumbles ? if not then you did have fuel , but i'm not sure how much . i will be setting up my ram with a couple different fuel systems and trying them back to back on a dyno , not that it will be taken seriously as it seems the die is cast and more is better .

 

[tmacc]

Ramafid,

Oct 12th is probably fine for me . My work schedule is pretty scr&wed up rigth now. I can't even find time to get my truck into the dealer for some warranty front end work.



Hey Iceman,

If you want to get together to drill out your banjo bolts, let me know. I have some left over from when I installed Ray's BJ. I even have a couple of Ray's bolts left over. Let me know. MM gave me the specs and it's really a pc of cake to do. When you get all of your various BOMBing pcs back, I'll go up to Ernie's w/ you.

Later, Tom

 

[**ICEMAN**]

mopar,,the wife was driving it at the time. she said it was fine and like someone just turned it off. i got to it and tried to start it,,fuel press. gauge wouldn't move. pulled the fuel line of at the gauge sensor,,cranked it again and no fuel coming out. also turning key to start position i couldn't here the pump cycling.



tmacc,,soon as i get it back and the toys in we will head to ernies.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

As I posted on another thread, be sure the converter is locked up so converter fluid coupling efficiency is not affecting results. If a manual, it helps if the clutch isn't slipping

SOTD