Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Edge Comp. VS. Smarty/TST

[JHarrington]

Well, I thought I had it figured out. I was going to get a Smarty first then if that wasn't enough fun I'd stack a TST power box with it. Of course I'm sure I'd have to add in a new SB clutch with that combination. Now I'm beginning to doubt my decision. Should I be going with the Edge Comp and a Smarty??????? I'm not sure yet. I know the edge comp is both timing and fuel but I want to maximize my 275 inj. and get the biggest bang for the buck. Please advise, JCH.







01' HO 24V/6-speed 4X4 3500 ex-cab. 275inj, isspro analog gauges, FASS 95gpm. JCH. :-laf:-laf

 

[Fishin Guide]

Best driveability hands down goes to the Edge Comp. make it a Drag version and you won't need another box.



I run the Smarty/ TST combo and the Smarty is getting replaced with an Edge EZ.



Stick shift trucks have fewer problems with the Smarty than us auto guys, but it's not as much fun to drive as the Comp.



Dave

 

[NoSeeUm]

I would suggest driving a Smarty truck. The get up and go is very nice. Throttle response from the bottom end is its main benefit.



The Smarty alone will push your stock clutch to the limit and your turbo to about its limit as well. The Edge will push both over the top.



There are some other products, like the Edge with Attitude and Quadzilla. The Qzilla is not out, but is coming out soon with a timing / fueling 2nd Gen box.



From my experience, I wanted more and more once I got started. Say goodbye to a couple of vacations if you choose my route.



Jim

 

[isb360]

IMHO -- PM3/Smarty is a fabulous combo. Smarty for low-end and elimination of high-rpm defueling and TST for top-end. It does get toasty and I can't run anything higher than #5 on TST with Smarty on #9... at least not until I get a bigger turbo.



Tim



p. s. and oh yeah... you'll need a clutch :-laf

 

[JHarrington]

Dave,

With your current Smarty/TST combo what do you like and dislike the most about it? What kind of milage, boost and smoke do you get? Also, is the main reason for changing to Edge EZ for on the fly changes or just preformance? What kind of clutch are you running? Many thanks for the info, JCH.

 

[JHarrington]

Jim,

I want to drive a smarty truck, but I don't think I'll get that done until I buy one!!! Do you think the Edge Comp is better preformance wise than the TST power box? Also what do you think the best stack is Smarty/TST or Smarty/Edge Comp?? Thanks, JCH.

 

[JHarrington]

Tim,

What kind of fuel milage, boost and smoke do you see with your Smarty/TST stack? Also, what kind of clutch do you run? Thanks, JCH.

 

[16919]

I think that a TST is a little more aggressive than a comp... ... .....

 

[JFlagg]

I've run the TST PM3 and COMP. The TST pulls harder than the COMP by my seat of the pantsometer. The TST also smokes alot less than the COMP. Install is the same, though the TST is alittle harder to get throught the firewall due to the large plug. All in all, I liked them both, very similar power, though the TST seems alittle quicker. I've got them stacked now though, with the COMP as an EZ. Remember though, the PM3 also has a competition upgrade like the COMP (drag upgrade). The TST is 50 bucks and the COMP is 100 I think.



Though, since the thread is about the Smarty/TST stack vs. Drag Comp, I can't give my opinion on that since I don't have any experience with it. Though, with your 275s and either chip combo, your stock clutch won't last to long and your turbo may get fairly hot also.



PS. I also noticed about 1/2 MPG better with the TST over the COMP, though, if I play with all the settings enough, I may prove otherwise. So far, I get my best mileage with them both off.



Just my experiences, yours may differ



Jeremy

 

[Fishin Guide]

In my truck, which is an So I have found good and bad about all these setups.



I am running a built auto and twins and larger than stock injectors.



Smarty Likes: Adjustability. Stable Programming. Adjustable tire height. Code reading and clearing. Anti-Theft.



Smarty dislikes: Way too touchy throttle. All throttle appears to be compressed into the first half of throttle. Too smokey on all levels. Stacked shifts and hunting. Cruise control useless- see too aggressive throttle. Undriveable on any level with the TST OFF.



TST/ EZ combo. EZ quietly does it's job. Much more driveable with TST off. About same timing added milage as Smarty. I get 23MPG hiway TST off. Boost referenced fueling. Less smoke, better spool.



TST is more aggressive and has a violent defuel shutter. I run the COMP version. More power from fueling than Edge Comp.



Edge Comp. Drag upgrade. Great power and sdjustability. Boost and computer referenced fueling. adjustable smoke levels. Much more driver friendly than any other box on the market.



Dave

 

[NoSeeUm]

I am running a built auto and twins and larger than stock injectors.

Dave

Dave, did your touchyness start prior to the M6+s?



I think you are the only one I have read still using a Smarty at those power levels. I am running M4's smoke can be bad from 800 - 1500 RPM at less that 5 psi boost. It can be really bad especially if I am pulling a load, but then it clears right up.



If I am using the TST I mostly get just pretty good solid puff of grey smoke between shifts then that clears up. Maybe just a grey haze on hot days. Probably pushing around 45 psi boost at those times.



Jim

 

[NoSeeUm]

Jim,

I want to drive a smarty truck, but I don't think I'll get that done until I buy one!!! Do you think the Edge Comp is better preformance wise than the TST power box? Also what do you think the best stack is Smarty/TST or Smarty/Edge Comp?? Thanks, JCH.

I responded to your PM.



Jim

 

[Fishin Guide]

Dave, did your touchyness start prior to the M6+s?



I think you are the only one I have read still using a Smarty at those power levels. I am running M4's smoke can be bad from 800 - 1500 RPM at less that 5 psi boost. It can be really bad especially if I am pulling a load, but then it clears right up.



If I am using the TST I mostly get just pretty good solid puff of grey smoke between shifts then that clears up. Maybe just a grey haze on hot days. Probably pushing around 45 psi boost at those times.



Jim

I did have some touchiness with the M4's as well. The M6's made any little fault glare back at me.



I actually am not using the Smarty right now. It is resting comfotably under my boat seat in the sled. I use it for the antitheft and that's it. I cannot drive the truck with it in place.



A buddy has loaned me an EZ and it drives great! I do have the TST in as well, so when I am running empty, I can blast through the gears.



I have my own theories on how to improve the Smarty. However, my feedback has not been valued.



In the meantime, I am thinking about going back to a drag comp or keeping the EZ/ TST combo as I feel it may be a bit more reliable. Best thing is, bottom end smoke is very controllable and I can use the entire throttle range again.



Dave

 

[PRout]

Although I dont have big injectors like M6s, I have run 100HP, 50HP, and the current 275 injectors with the Smarty, and admittedly it is fun at first to have the instant responsive throttle. you soon realize that basically youve lost the dynamic range of the go pedal and have had the full range compressed down into less travel to do the same thing (depending on the SW level). For me it has become annoying.

At least the Van Aaken box I had before didnt really add fuel until you pushed the pedal down a bit still leaving a smoother more controlled response off the bottom.

I too have gone back to stock ECM programming and the Smarty is on the shelf in the garage just to see if we will receive some updates to try out soon. Otherwise, itll be another item in the classifieds.

Im very dissatisfied in the way us 2nd genners have been ignored. We cant even get an ABS adjustment for a stock SW! Ill probably end up going back to the Van Aaken which was an excellent timing box (similar to the EZ) and recoup a few hundred bucks as well.

 

[Todd F]

I have to admit the my Smarty has seen very little truck time. The pedal is just too touchy in heavy stop and go traffic in which I spend most of my days in. . #@$%!. The smoke can be hard to control as well in these situations.



For the last year I have been mainly running just injectors but an EZ will in the near future again. . .



I am not saying there is anything wrong with the Smarty as it seems just not to be the box/programmer for me.



I would prefer the Edge just because the delivery is more top end.

 

[16919]

Although I dont have big injectors like M6s, I have run 100HP, 50HP, and the current 275 injectors with the Smarty, and admittedly it is fun at first to have the instant responsive throttle. you soon realize that basically youve lost the dynamic range of the go pedal and have had the full range compressed down into less travel to do the same thing (depending on the SW level). For me it has become annoying.



At least the Van Aaken box I had before didnt really add fuel until you pushed the pedal down a bit still leaving a smoother more controlled response off the bottom.



I too have gone back to stock ECM programming and the Smarty is on the shelf in the garage just to see if we will receive some updates to try out soon. Otherwise, itll be another item in the classifieds.



Im very dissatisfied in the way us 2nd genners have been ignored. We cant even get an ABS adjustment for a stock SW! Ill probably end up going back to the Van Aaken which was an excellent timing box (similar to the EZ) and recoup a few hundred bucks as well.

You can add me to that list as well... ... . #@$%!... ... . I am waiting on that new tow box from quad!

 

[LOtero]

i have run a TST PM3/smarty and edge EZ stack and although it was a learning experience in my opinion you still cannot beat an edge drag comp for driveability and fun all in one package. the drag comp/smarty stack was pretty much unuseable due to the smoke on anything more than sub setting 2. i like smoke as much as the next guy but sub setting 2 is not my idea of fun and it seems the smarty pretty much crippled my comp box due to crazy amounts of smoke. my drag comp can black out lanes, run 13s and go into grandma mode in a push of a button, that to me is where its at.

 

[NoSeeUm]

Although I dont have big injectors like M6s, I have run 100HP, 50HP, and the current 275 injectors with the Smarty, and admittedly it is fun at first to have the instant responsive throttle. you soon realize that basically youve lost the dynamic range of the go pedal and have had the full range compressed down into less travel to do the same thing (depending on the SW level). For me it has become annoying.



At least the Van Aaken box I had before didnt really add fuel until you pushed the pedal down a bit still leaving a smoother more controlled response off the bottom.



I too have gone back to stock ECM programming and the Smarty is on the shelf in the garage just to see if we will receive some updates to try out soon. Otherwise, itll be another item in the classifieds.



Im very dissatisfied in the way us 2nd genners have been ignored. We cant even get an ABS adjustment for a stock SW! Ill probably end up going back to the Van Aaken which was an excellent timing box (similar to the EZ) and recoup a few hundred bucks as well.

I am guessing you have tried SW3 or SW2?



The Catcher SW is not used for SW1, 2 and 3. Although I don't really know how the Catcher SW works, it definately can add some smoke (fuel) at low RPM's. From what I can "infer" it ignores boost and possibly even retards the timing a bit at those RPM's to increase spool up rate. I am guessing that Catcher compresses the loading curve vice the APPS curve.



On any Cather SW my truck makes only smoke below 1500 RPM / 5 psi of boost. There is very little power there, but this was not always true. When I was running stock injectors with the HX35 it made good power from the ground up. It could still pollute cubic yards of clean air (I ran SW9 in those days). Now however, with the M4's once the turbos start to spool the power is very smooth and no smoke. I mean zero smoke. (I should try stock just to see how much different that would be. )



When I was running the Ottomind (boost fool fueling and timing box) there still was no power there and no smoke too. When the power did come on, the torque rise was really excessive and my drive train would just howl. What irratated me was I had not moved the throttle a mm. At least the Smarty lets me control power (and smoke) to a larger degree.



The only guy I know of that uses a Smarty with big air / injectors is MikeD over on DTR. Don't quote me, but I believe he can run in the 11's. Last I read he was using SW3 still and runs fastest on that setting.



Reading over on NWBombers, Marco is not ignoring 2nd Gen. He is busy working on 6. 7 stuff. He might actually have to make a living with these products. Support a family maybe? I could only imagine it is no hobby for Marco. Marco, probably understands us bombers vote with our $$$.



Marco is planning to come to US in the coming months. From what I read, his plan is to explore and refine some of the 2nd Gen SW's. Evidently, there is a few more trucks on this side of the Atlantic with different issues / demands than the ones that are over there which have no issues / contentment.



I also think that if Dodge quits building new engines / electronics that us 2nd Gen'rs (3rd's and 4th's also) will be sitting pretty. I am not ready to give up on the Smarty just yet. In the mean time, the new soon to be released Quad looks promising to me as well.



But... .



I only wonder how long it will take for that new and improved Quad box to drop out of favor just like so many of its predessors have?



Jim

 

[Fishin Guide]

Hi Jim.



I for one am not saying the truck isn't fast or doesn't ,ake power with the Smarty.



Just in my case, it's not as driveable as some of the other boxes out there.



Dave

 

[PRout]

I am guessing you have tried SW3 or SW2?

Yes, SW2 & 3 are basically the ones I have had almost ok luck with. But, I only have 275 injectors now. Before with 100HP injectors, SW2/3 were still too touchy on the throttle for my normal driving style. Since I wanted to keep the versatility (and future enhancements) of the Smarty, I opted to go to smaller injectors to smoothen out the throttle response. It helped, but at a sacrifice of the bigger sticks.

There is a common consensus that alot of users would like to be able to calm down the low throttle settings to tame down their bigger injectors, like they can do with the Edge Comp.

Also, everyone wants to have the ABS Odometer adjustability with stock SW.

SO... For me (not sure of others) I have not had success w/ fuel mileage mode and would like to see SW1 changed to "Stock only" with ABS, Boost fooling, and no rev limiting capabilities to satisfy alot of the requests out there. Forget all the testing, just give us the SW. Mark it as "Beta", We'll do the testing. Just get us something. . Im sure that would be a nice minor change that would satisfy alot of us, and give us a sign that we are still on the radar and can possibly expect more after the 3rd gen major issues are worked. .

Just trying to give the mfg an opportunity to keep things "good", as this is all workable with just a little patience on all sides.

The upsides of the Smarty are its communication with the ECM in my experience have been flawless. . I even interrupted a download once, and it recovered itself perfectly so the folks at Madselectronics have the communications (with the ecm ) down Pat!Ok, Thats all im saying on it. . Done whining here, the input has been given and will see what happens. .