Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Edge or TST + MAD ECM

[sparks57]

I'm trying to figure out which catcher version to get, the reduced timing, or standard timing.



Either the reduced timing and a drag comp, or the standard timing with a TST box.



Which would make a better combo?



My endgoal is around 500hp with towing twins.

 

[TORQUE THIS]

I have the standard caTCHER with a TST PowerMax 3... LOVE IT!!!!!!



Of course with 180 HP injectors and the caTCHER, I don't use the TST that much.

 

[mgoncalves]

Call Edge and hassle them about your timing concerns. Aaron said they are contemplating making the timing adjustable on the upcoming juice/attitude for the 98-02 trucks.



I told him that if it has timing control, even if it is an on or off setting, I will buy one.



Hopefully more people make their concerns heard, it would be nice to have your choice of timing, with the same box.



Matt

 

[Marco]

I don't know which box will give you more power combined with the CaTCHER.



What I know is that if you're planning twins then you're better off with the no timing CaTCHER.



Makes senses?



Marco

 

[RCone]

Some seem to have forgotten the point of the (version 1) CaTCHER. It shines on low and midrange end, which is not to say that it doesn't do well on the top end either.



If you tow, the CaTCHER and Don's F1's are for you. You won't need to even turn on the fueling box. I personally only use two settings for my drag comp, OFF or on KILL (5x5). You don't need anything else. And this from a person who tows a 14K 5ver.



Roger

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Call Edge and hassle them about your timing concerns. Aaron said they are contemplating making the timing adjustable on the upcoming juice/attitude for the 98-02 trucks. "



It's been a while since I read all the finer points on the functional adjustability of the Comp and Drag Comp - but *I* thought that the settings DID affect both fuel timing AND volume - such as 1x3 being timing setting #1, and fueling level #3, etc...

 

[mgoncalves]

It's been a while since I read all the finer points on the functional adjustability of the Comp and Drag Comp - but *I* thought that the settings DID affect both fuel timing AND volume - such as 1x3 being timing setting #1, and fueling level #3, etc...

You better double check how the comp works, cause that ain't what the levels do. I know you have seen the page where Edge explains EXACTLY how the comp works, because you have linked to it on here before.



Basically, timing is the same on all main levels, 1-5 with more effect from the pump wire on each level. If I remember right, timing advance comes in a tad bit earlier on each setting as you go up, but nothing you can really notice. The sublevels are 100% for manipulating your boost fooler. That's why you get so much off-boost smoke on level 5, and hardly any on level 1.



What they are looking at for the juice and attitude, is to be able to alter how much timing advance the box gives (this would be best) or to just be able to turn off timing advance, and run like an FMS, or TST, or any other wire tap box withouit timing. That would be good enough for me to buy one, although I would really love being able to change how much advance the box gives.



I never cared much about timing until I got my hot rod VP, now with the drag comp, it's just to much timing for me.



Matt

 

[sparks57]

But as for the "no timing" catcher, I'd HAVE TO run it with a box, correct? I couldn't just run it alone because I would have no timing settings?



So there is only the NO timing, and regular timing, no reduced timing?



Thanks everyone... keep the info rolling.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"You better double check how the comp works, cause that ain't what the levels do. I know you have seen the page where Edge explains EXACTLY how the comp works, because you have linked to it on here before. "





I guess the part that confused me, was THIS:



"The Edge Comp module maximizes engine efficiency by monitoring the RPM, timing, turbo boost pressure and fueling parameters. The module uses this information to determine and control both fueling and timing enhancements for the Bosch fuel injection pump. Timing and fueling enhancements are controlled via CAN-BUS through the Data Link and by connecting directly into the Bosch fuel injection pump. "



... But then, I'm easily confused! :-laf

 

[mgoncalves]

You lost me there Gary, maybe I'm the one that gets easily confused.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

WELL, it has been my understanding that the Comp does both fueling AND timing adjustment to provide a performance boost - and while their web page info fucuses primarily on the increased fueling portion of the Comp's operation, they also claim:





"The Edge Comp module maximizes engine efficiency by monitoring the RPM, timing, turbo boost pressure and fueling parameters. "



SO, what do they DO with that info? Well, THIS:



The module uses this information to determine and control both fueling and timing enhancements for the Bosch fuel injection pump.



MORE:



"Timing and fueling enhancements are controlled via CAN-BUS through the Data Link and by connecting directly into the Bosch fuel injection pump. "



NOW, it seems pretty clear to me, from the above quoted info posted on the Edge website ABOUT how the Comp functions, that both fueling AND timing are combined in increasing engine performance. In what proportion or degree? I dunno, they don't give specifics, about percentage of increased fueling, OR alteration of timing - but I would think that IF they were gonna bother to mess with timing adjustments, they wouldn't do it in a SMALL way...



I got the impression from your original post:



"Basically, timing is the same on all main levels, 1-5 with more effect from the pump wire on each level. If I remember right, timing advance comes in a tad bit earlier on each setting as you go up, but nothing you can really notice. "



... That you feel the degree of actual timing manipulation with the Comp is perhaps minimal or of no great effect - especially in the lower Comp settings, and "not really noticeable in the higher ones"...



But maybe I am misreading your comment and you really mean the initial timing change IS significant - but then doesn't really change much as you go upscale on the various level settings...



Your guess is as good as mine (maybe BETTER!)...



BUT, if being able to actually switch whatever timing IS used by the Comp off and on is the issue, why not simply place a switch in the wire to the VP-44 for the occasions when it is not wanted?

 

[R-N-R]

I understand it as the comp adjustment controlling when the timing advance is available, but not how much advance is supplied.



Timing Enhancement = When

Fueling Enancement = How Much



???

 

[mgoncalves]

Okay Gary,



That's what the comp does overall, I thought we were talking about what the settings do. 1x3 does NOT mean timing level 1, fuel level 3. That's what I was trying to point out. It would be awesome if we could adjust the timing and fuel levels seperately like that, and that's why I said to call and bug edge for such a feature with the new box coming soon. Imagine having the capability to tailor the fuel and timing enhancements to exactly how you want them. There is no box on the market that does that, I would pay for one that does.



Like I said before, the main level is power (fuel and timing) with level 1 not adding any fuel via the pump wire, and sublevels are strictly boost fooler control. Idealy, I would like to have three categories, one for fuel using the pump wire, one for boost fooler, and one for different timing rates.



Hopefully that clears up what I was trying to say.



Matt

 

[mgoncalves]

BUT, if being able to actually switch whatever timing IS used ny the Comp off and on, why not simply place a switch in the wire to the VP-44 for the occasions when it is not wanted?

That would be great, if that wire were used for the timing change.



That wire taps the signal between the fuel pumps computer, and the fuel solenoid, not the timing solenoid.

 

[mgoncalves]

But maybe I am misreading your comment and you really mean the initial timing change IS significant - but then doesn't really change much as you go upscale on the various level settings...



QUOTE]





Now you're reading me .

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"That wire taps the signal between the fuel pumps computer, and the fuel solenoid, not the timing solenoid. "



Well, there goes THAT fine theory! :-laf