EDM injectors

[KatDiesel]

Anyone feel like discussing them?



I've had a set of "Mach IV's" from Don M for a lil while. So these will NOT smoke less then extrude hone injectors due to the size. However since the day they went in it has been extremely cold and snowing every other day (or slick out) so I haven't been able to play higher levels as much as I would like. These are my daily drivers, and I can now make smoke on injectors only... granted not alot but still visable. With my camshaft, 4. 10 gear, and small turbo housing it was very hard for me to get the DDIII's or BD IV's to smoke box off. So I know they are adding the fuel. Idle sound has changed slightly. EGT's box off won't go over 1100° and around 38 to 39psi. Level II on COMP=1200° Level IV on COMP=1350° Level V approaches 1600°, but with my small exhaust housing I expect it to be up there. I haven't been able to get boost peaks lately because by then I am doing 90+ and the road conditions hhaven't been favorable.



All I can say is I am very happy with how they turned out. However people in colder climates, if you go this big for dailys you might not like them due to the fact you'll have to use light throttle around town or you spin. So far the coldest I have started with them has breen around 5°.

 

[Idaho CTD]

Eric,



I should have mine next week. I'm getting the 5's so I know they will smoke. At my altitude I might have to set the comp on 1-1 to be able to run them on the street. I'll probably dyno them within a week of getting them so it will be interesting to see how they do compared to the DD2's I'm running now.



Nathan

 

[LSMITH]

A poorly atomized charge would also make smoke when a loss of power was seen. Smoke is not a factor in whether or not more fuel is being delivered, it merely says more fuel is being wasted by an incomplete burn. Are these the same ones that dyno'd at <380? Does the power seem to be up? Have they been on a dyno in your truck? What was the result if so compared to the extrude honed injectors? Would Don have any liability if a tip was to break off and damage the engine? How many sets are out there and what kind of mileage is on them?



Yes I would like to talk about them.

 

[Chipstien]

Check out this thread on NW Bombers. Good info. I will be going with a set of Don's 5's like IdahoCTD. Just need to get a wastegate first. Don says they will not break. Can't wait. Oo. Oo.





http://www.nwbombers.com/board/ikonboard. cgi?s=3e3899942dd6ffff;act=ST;f=3;t=1662

 

[LSMITH]

If Don said they will not break I sure feel a lot better about it... ... .



How long has he been in the injector business again? Not trying to be a ____, but there are serious concernd here.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Don has been doing this since 2001, he started with the 12V stuff then now to 24V as he has a truck to test with(not his) I like the idea of his 12V injectors but I have a problem as I have a Motor guy, Piers, that is too good to me to go behind his back, if Piers says go for it I would and do back to back dyno runs at Don's favorite place!



Jim

 

[LSMITH]

Kinda my point Jim, if there were that good Piers (or someone like him) would sell them. I am just nervous about them, and I know more than just a little something about EDM too.

 

[Chipstien]

Doesn't J. R. make EDM injectors. And Piers is in the process of R&D with these injectors. He says they are about 2 months out. They are out there. I would bet before long they will be a household name.

 

[TxDieselKid]

The injector scene is going to get VERY intresting this year, even more so with all the new turbo options.



Andrew

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Kinda my point Jim, if there were that good Piers (or someone like him) would sell them. I am just nervous about them, and I know more than just a little something about EDM too.



I would try them in a minute, I know Don and he is a no BS person, but I just can't stab Piers in the back..... maybe it's just the way I think. I have already been contacted about pulling away from Piers some time back(another topic) so that is were I'm coming from!



Jim

 

[TxDieselKid]

Originally posted by Jim Fulmer

I have already been contacted about pulling away from Piers some time back(another topic) so that is were I'm coming from!



Jim

Jim,

That means that your doing something right my friend.

 

[Diesel Freak]

I'm all ears!

 

[KatDiesel]

Originally posted by Idaho CTD

I should have mine next week. I'm getting the 5's so I know they will smoke. At my altitude I might have to set the comp on 1-1 to be able to run them on the street. I'll probably dyno them within a week of getting them so it will be interesting to see how they do compared to the DD2's I'm running now.

Hope you like'em. Not sure how cold you get but let us know how cold they start up without being plugged in. Also I am curious as to how you think they drive when its below 10&deg; out. Like I stated in my truck you have to be light on the throttle.

 

[KatDiesel]

Originally posted by LSMITH

A poorly atomized charge would also make smoke when a loss of power was seen. Smoke is not a factor in whether or not more fuel is being delivered, it merely says more fuel is being wasted by an incomplete burn. Are these the same ones that dyno'd at <380? Does the power seem to be up? Have they been on a dyno in your truck? What was the result if so compared to the extrude honed injectors? Would Don have any liability if a tip was to break off and damage the engine? How many sets are out there and what kind of mileage is on them?



Yes I would like to talk about them.

Thanks for pointing that out but I am well aware of what extra black smoke is and where it comes from. These are just general observations because some people are concered with smoke. And actually yes more fuel is being deleveried because of the low end change in performance. Don had them ready to go long ago with 100hp and no smoke, but I kept wanting just a lil more so we added more and more. The "junk" injectors that were refered to in chat dynoed 384 on a mustang dyno, those were DDIII's. 384 @ 3200rpm. Thats why I haven't gone back because I didn't wanna waste another $100 and listen to this and that about why its dynoing so "low", the dyno guy is a very good gas tuner, just not a diesel guy. And I belkieve his dyno haws outdated software, he can only enter in 5500lbs... ... ... other people say the 1750 is not limited to that weight. No they have not been dynoed in my truck, the only dyno near here is the Mustang I just spoke about, theres a dyno in Sioux City bit it only goes to 80mph. Theres a dynojet in KC but all I get on the dynojet anymore is peak power at 3400rpm and rising. I was going to do a before and after, but like I said didn't wanna waste another $100 at that dyno shop.



My performance testing will have to be how they perform at the race track, I'm waiting for them to open up. But yes power is up, box off is damn fun, 65 to 95mph is pretty quick injectors only.



Comapred to my my DDIII's, yes they make more power based on seat of the pants, and I'll prove it at the racetrack.



As far as nozzle breakage goes, why would you consider Don liable? Do you hold injector vendors liable if you melt a piston due to high EGTs? Do you hold a transmission vendor liable if you have an exhaust brake and fry the torque convertor? No I don't hold Don liable if it were to happen, however I'm not worried about it happening I know whats been done to prevent it. If someone is afraid of it happening then don't runn'em... . problem solved.



Ready for next round of questions... ... .....

 

[KatDiesel]

Originally posted by LSMITH

Kinda my point Jim, if there were that good Piers (or someone like him) would sell them. I am just nervous about them, and I know more than just a little something about EDM too.

Piers is working on them, I've seen a set dynoed. It takes a while to find a working combination. Not sure if he is still working on them or if he has given up. If your nervous about them, seriuously don't runn'em... and you have no worries. Wait till some milage is accumilated.



Oh and forgot to answer from other post..... how many sets? I don't know have to ask Don, I do believe my set is the first outside of DFW area tho. Milage, only a couple of thousand on mine so far.

 

[KatDiesel]

Originally posted by LSMITH

If Don said they will not break I sure feel a lot better about it... ... .



How long has he been in the injector business again? Not trying to be a ____, but there are serious concernd here.

Going on about 2 years of toying with injectors.

 

[KatDiesel]

Anyone else got more questions? And in case anyone is wondering yes I paid for my injectors

 

[Marco]

I have been running a set of EDM injectors for 18 months now. No, they are not from Don let's say I have a friend @ a OEM manufacturer.



My set was hand "drilled" to very tight tollerances. That means they are within 0. 7%. (First thing I noticed was the VERY smooth idle)



The flow chart of my injectors could be compared to a set of BD 4's. I wanted to go bigger with them but the ingeneers there made some claim that made me stop in my search for HP.



Keep in mind my tips are original blank Bosch units.

The guys there said, no bigger holes than this otherwise the cylinder pressure would blow back into the injectors. I think you call that "Hydrolock".



We then talked about more holes in the tip. Their response was again negative. The material the OEM tips are manufactured from would break if more holes were drilled in them. They said only a sack hole could have been added but a sack hole has also it's downsides.



Let's see, my injectors smoke actually much less than the DDIII's I've been using before them. Max boost with them is 43 Psi. Mileage has improved by about 0. 5



Now if someone builds the tips with stronger stuff than the OEM's well then more holes would surely be possible! More holes would mean better fuel atomization thus less smoke and more power.



Like LSMITH pointed out, smoke means only wasted fuel. I would add also, smoke means wasted horsepower. Yes because any time a engine produces a significant amount of smoke the combustion chamber is cooled to the point that power is lost.



I don't know if Don builds his tips on his own or if he uses OEM's.

If he builds them with a stronger metall than Bosch does, well then he IS the injector king in my book! I would not have a problem to use his injectors...



Marco

 

[KatDiesel]

Regarding the smoke I was refering to... . I meant at 0 boost and give it some throttle... . my turbo is at 8psi or so before 1500rpm.

 

[Diesel Freak]

I am currious how these smoke compared to my DD3's on a hot day with the AC cranked and I nail it after sitting at a stop light.



I guess we will have to wait till summertime for that.