Educating Peace Protestors

[rich m]

Re: I guess I do

Originally posted by Champane Flight

..... to go hit protesters in the chops. Be careful one or two of them might hit back... ... .

At that point, he'd be a "graduate" of the "Kenny Rogers Coward of the County Institute of Social Reality", and you (and the new grad) can then move on to the next member of the "rent-a-crowd"



Putting the joke into perspective:



A truly convinced protester has his/her right(s) to speak/etc.



He/she also has a right to accurate information, so he can decide whether he/she is really just making a fool of him/herself.



His/her cause is usually, in my mind/eye, somewhat diminished and discredited by the motives of the "perpetual protester", who doesn't really care about the "cause", but he's always there, for every protest. Rather than getting a job or going to class, he'd just rather walk around in circles holding some dumb-butt placard and then see if he can get laid later by one of the chick protesters.



The joke isn't aimed at the person with a legitimate "beef" . The joke's aimed at the members of the "rentacrowd".

 

[John Berger]

I'm sure that some peaceniks are sincere and probably courageous. Speaking for myself, I am not referring to the Desmond Doss' of the world, those who were conscientious objectors and served their country well. I'm talking about the Susan Sontag's of this world: the ones who wouldn't lift a finger to help their fellow man, but don't hesitate to go all out to promulgate and further their poisonous views; the ones who blame America first, as though it's our fault for being attacked. Why were we attacked? Because we are who we are. We were attacked because we are rich. We were attacked because we are religiously diverse and we co-exist in this diversity. We were attacked because we democratically elect those who we feel best represent our views and we argue over who we think is right. We were attacked, fundamentally, over class envy. We were not attacked because we deserved it.



For those of you who do not know who Desmond Doss is, you might want to check this link out. He was awarded the CMH by President Truman.



http://www.homeofheroes.com/profiles/profiles_doss.html

 

[Crash_AF]

The protestors...

Look guys, I'm sure that most of you guys would just love one chance to hit these protestors flat on their @$$es. I'd love a chance to. Think about this just a minute... with every single conflict that the U. S. has been or is involved in always has some group of nuts that thinks there is a better way to handle the situation. This is not always true. What are we supposed to do when diplomatic channels are exhausted? Put these protestors in the shoes of GBW right now and see what they might do, especially with a nation crying out for justice for 6000 lives that were taken so needlessly. We are all only human after all...



Sherry Hinson

 

[Cooker]

This is the first I've read this thread, and I was rollin'



The protesters have their rights too



To each his own.



-Ryan

 

[Crash_AF]

protestors

I couldn't agree more...



To each his own.



Sherry Hinson

 

[nps]

To CF

So sorry you're sad.



There is vindication though. The joke made it to the 98 Rock morning show with Kirk, Mark and Lopez out of Baltimore.



Guess what - they and 100 out of 100 listeners with a sense of humor thought it was funny too!!

 

[SteveH]

RobMitch - Very good post! The Bin Ladens of this world love it when they see the demonstrations on our campuses around the states and the more internal strife they can stir up; the more pleased they are. This is known because they then use these demonstrations to show their followers that even our own people are against what our government is doing. I can only imagine the hurt the families of the nearly 7,000 victims of the WTC feel when they see these demonstrations. I'm old enough to remember the damage done by the 60's and early 70's demonstrators.

Steve H

 

[Max340]

Observations:



CF seems to speak from experience and reason, the rest of you seem to be running on emotion.



It is a fact, the Constitution you wave about as the words to live by is the same document that guarantees the protestors the right to protest. Even so, you are willing to violate what you say are your principles simply because you don't agree with the protestors.



Blaming protestors (whether they seem to take responsibility or not) for soldiers getting killed is blatantly idiotic. (YEAH, IDIOTIC, want me to spell it out?) Last I checked, soldiers get killed by bullets fired by opposing soldiers. Policy is set by governments, politicians, and military chain of command. To put the blame on the protestors for the death of a soldier in the field is not only avoiding the facts, it avoids the responsibility of the leaders who issued the policy and the actions to support that policy.



IOW, blaming protestors for military deaths is much like blaming guns for violence in society. Its not the gun, or the protestor, who makes the policy that decides the target or deployment of troops.



As I said before, I bet I am more conservative than most on here. It appears in this case I am. While you all (except for CF) are looking for scapegoats, I am placing the responsibility where it belongs. In the example of Vietnam, it was government policy that made that the mess that it was, not the protestors. In the case of todays protestors; right or wrong, our government makes policy, not the placard carrying students. Eliminating the protestors solves nothing, and violates the Constitution.



Champaign Flight is correct. It doesn't matter if those who act against us see our various POV in the various ways they are expressed. What matters is that we continue to support and excersize the rights we are given by the Constitution. It is sad that some of you would rather curtail the those rights, than be pleased that despite disparity in viewpoints, those Rights are continuing as before, not stopping because some outsider attacked us.

 

[DRR-24V]

Like I said, I expected Mad Max to post on this thread before Jane Fonda or Phil Donahue. CF beat him to the punch. Still waiting on Fonda and Phil. My Mad Max Ignore Mode is now on. I won't listen to his Pinko Dribble.

 

[Shovelhead]

Geeeeeeeez guys,

I thought it was a joke, remember..... funny,..... ha, ha?







I realize the world has changed since 9-11-01, but there are larger issues to get torqued at than an attempt at humor.





Yeah, I'm already wearing my asbestos boxers.

 

[Champane Flight]

Understand?

Don, Apparently you have mistaken me with someone who gives a I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER what you think... .....

 

[Max340]

Re: Understand?

Originally posted by Champane Flight

Don, Apparently you have mistaken me with someone who gives a I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER what you think... .....

Apparently, Don made a mistake and read another of my posts. Musta forgot to ignore me.

 

[John Berger]

Originally posted by Max340

Observations:



CF seems to speak from experience and reason, the rest of you seem to be running on emotion... .

Max, you amaze me. Your apparent condescension knows no bounds.





Champane Flight - Glad you don't give a I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER about what Don said(or thinks), but by saying that aren't you stooping to the level that Max and you told the rest of us we need to avoid. Appears that way from here, but then again maybe I just didn't really read what you posted. Or maybe I just misunderstood because I'm being to emotional. Either way, I'm sure it's my fault.



P. S. With apologies to Don for referencing his post and any others who I may offend, but IF Don gave a I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER, who do you think would be the first person he'd give it to? Since nobody around here seems to give a I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER, the aromatic ambience in this thread should be greatly improved. This is strictly a rhetorical question, by the way. Any humor that is inferred was strictly intentional.

 

[Max340]

Originally posted by John Berger





Max, you amaze me. Your apparent condescension knows no bounds.

I'd say its boundries run up directly to where you and a few others seems to encroach on the same territory.



I find it interesting that you would comment on my condescension, but forget where all of you slam on CF, despite the fact that he seems to have *seen* more of things the rest of you only have comment on.



Yet you aren't being condescending?

 

[Champane Flight]

There you go.

I did not think I was emotional about my last post,but being put in the same class of people as Jane Fonda and Phil Donahue needed a response of the same frame of intelect.....



And by saying Max's statements were "Pinko Dribble"is like saying that the Declaration of Independence is just another rag to be discarded whenever we have a disagreement with its content... ...

 

[jthorpe]

Originally posted by John Berger

I'm sure that some peaceniks are sincere and probably courageous. Speaking for myself, I am not referring to the Desmond Doss' of the world, those who were conscientious objectors and served their country well. I'm talking about the Susan Sontag's of this world: the ones who wouldn't lift a finger to help their fellow man, but don't hesitate to go all out to promulgate and further their poisonous views; the ones who blame America first, as though it's our fault for being attacked. Why were we attacked? Because we are who we are. We were attacked because we are rich. We were attacked because we are religiously diverse and we co-exist in this diversity. We were attacked because we democratically elect those who we feel best represent our views and we argue over who we think is right. We were attacked, fundamentally, over class envy. We were not attacked because we deserved it.



If you think we were attacked over class envy, then you are completely LOST! In case you haven't heard, Bin Laden has a ton of money. More than you or I could ever dream of. The last thing he is thinking about is how rich we are because he is 100 times richer then most Americans! As for the other fighters, I don't think that it's class envy either. I think they have been brainwashed by this nutcase and they think they're going to get a bunch of virgins if they go out and kill themselves while murdering Americans.



Bin Laden isn't in this because of "class envy" at all. He is a businessman. He is out to rule the world and he is hiding behind religion to try and make it happen. What better way to eliminate your competition? If you don't think he profited from this, then you should go back and check what stocks were heavily shorted the day before. That might give you an idea of what I'm talking about here.



As for the joke that started this thread. I thought it was stupid. I'm all for some good humor but the stuff in this category of the TDR forums has mostly been idiotic, racial and dehumanizing. I don't like P. C. either, but the ignorance I have seen here over the past few weeks is absolutely amazing.

 

[jthorpe]

Originally posted by Don Rogers

Like I said, I expected Mad Max to post on this thread before Jane Fonda or Phil Donahue. CF beat him to the punch. Still waiting on Fonda and Phil. My Mad Max Ignore Mode is now on. I won't listen to his Pinko Dribble.

Max is the voice of reason. Since you obviously aren't smart enough to figure out what he is saying, then maybe you should ignore him. It will make you feel better about yourself in the long run. If anyone here is truely for what that document stands for, it's Max. Why? Because he supports it with no conditions. He supports their right to protest, even though he may or may not like the protestors. I personally think they all suck, but I respect their right to do so.



I guess the rest of you only support the Constitution when it agrees with your political views. Screw everyone else eh?



I can't believe how many people in here are so hypocritical!



You wouldn't know Pinko dribble if it hit you on the side of the head, but you sure seem to know ignorance pretty well. Hey look, an oxy-'moron'.

 

[John Berger]

Originally posted by Max340





I'd say its boundries run up directly to where you and a few others seems to encroach on the same territory.



I find it interesting that you would comment on my condescension, but forget where all of you slam on CF, despite the fact that he seems to have *seen* more of things the rest of you only have comment on.



Yet you aren't being condescending?

Max, I said "apparent condescension". I guess you didn't completely read what I wrote. It comforts me to no end to realize that I'm not the only one who doesn't read in totality what others write Additionally, your commentary on those of us slamming CF by our commentary, in comparison to his actually having been there, just cements my view of you as being the liberal that you have previously denied being. Only a pointy headed academic mindset that was losing an argument would suggest that a person could not argue on a topic they may not have direct experience on, in or around. Well, duh! I guess that pretty much shoots freedom of speech out the window for 95% of America. I guess we should all listen to you, huh Max.



jthorpe, I'm not lost. I know exactly where I'm at. My belief in the class envy argument is well founded. So instead of assuming I'm lost, check out the article links I posted. And if you are as interested in truth and fairness, as previous posts suggest you are, I'll humbly accept your apology As for Max being the voice of reason. It's a free country, you believe as you want to believe. It's when you call the rest of us unreasonable, hypocritical and suggest that we don't care about human rights unless they are our view of said rights, that deeply disturbs me and genuinely frightens me about the survivability of our country. CF gets all of this, even though he and I disagree. I'm not sure about you and Max. But hey, like I said -- it's a free country. Maybe that really is the point.



http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=95001327



or this one by the same author



http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/010914/misc/14fouad.htm

 

[John Berger]

Re: There you go.

Originally posted by Champane Flight

I did not think I was emotional about my last post,but being put in the same class of people as Jane Fonda and Phil Donahue needed a response of the same frame of intelect.....

CF, I will concede that point to you and that was an association that never crossed my mind. My disagreements with you are not rooted in that area and if it sounded as though I was agreeing with that comparison, I apologize. The Jane Fonda issue is a flamer and sometimes not wisely used.

 

[jthorpe]

Originally posted by John Berger





jthorpe, I'm not lost. I know exactly where I'm at. My belief in the class envy argument is well founded.

It is? I'll bet you 10 bucks that any news writer or politician with just a tiny bit of common sense would tell you otherwise. These people do NOT have class envy for the US. If they did, Beverly Hills, Hollywood and many of those other cities would have been leveled a long time ago. The key to terrorism is anger. There is something stronger at work here than deprivation and jealousy. Something that can move men to kill but also to die. It's called radical religion. . For him and his followers, this is a holy war between Islam and the Western world. Most Muslims disagree. Every Islamic country in the world has condemned the attacks of September 11 but that's not going to stop him and his followers.

So instead of assuming I'm lost, check out the article links I posted. And if you are as interested in truth and fairness, as previous posts suggest you are, I'll humbly accept your apology

I don't apologize to those who are incorrect. Your arrogance will hide your ignorance to some, but I'm not buying it.

As for Max being the voice of reason. It's a free country,

That is the point he has been trying to make but I'm surprised at how many people aren't understanding.

you believe as you want to believe. It's when you call the rest of us unreasonable, hypocritical

The truth hurts...

and suggest that we don't care about human rights unless they are our view of said rights

I don't believe that I said anything about human rights. Talk about a lame try to put words into my mouth. My posts were regarding the Constitution and I never mentioned human rights so give it up.

that deeply disturbs me and genuinely frightens me about the survivability of our country.

blah blah blah. You're concerned about something that I never mentioned.