EFI live for Cummins

[raychem]

I'm assuming there's something hard coded that the smarty guys can't touch that if you turned off hte 3rd event that it jacked up things to the point of high EGT and low HP.



Assuming complete control of the programing, in theory you can turn it (3rd event) off (and move the timing around) to mimic a 03-04 truck could you not? I'm assuming not here for reasons that is different in hardware between the 2 motors.

That third injection event... which I DO NOT KNOW ALL THE SPECIFICS ON HOW IT WORKS but I will venture to say that it is there to complete the combustion process. Like pilot injection, it starts the process and the main injection event completes it and the third event "cleans up" what is left behind but is it always active? I do believe that pilot injection turns off at a certain rpm and re-engages below that set rpm. Marco or someone familiar with how the process works should be able to shed light on the subject

 

[raychem]

I have an 04. 5 and i have the third injection event. It is the same motor as your 05. Am I wrong here?

All motors 04. 5 and up have the third injection event.

 

[JCutter]

I thought the tst comp box could do that for you

Nope i can only get it to about 3600 rpm

 

[Diesel Power]

I guess I need dyno proven mods... Not those junky sledpullin' parts I am using!! :-laf



Dan, Do you think my sledpulling would improve with one of those trick 66's?

im not saying that your truck was not tuned i was just stating that thats where most of the high hp comes from-----tuning, or a high reading inaccurate dyno.

 

[Diesel Power]

there is a EFI type of box coming out for all of the common rails, 03-06. but it is even better than what your expecting. i will give some detail.

the box is a plug in type, it will plug into the ecm only, maybe a ground wire or something like that. it WILL allow for complete idividual adjustment of timing, duration and pressure on the fly. in a above, and below stock configuration, meaning if stock is 50% fuel, you can go from 0-100% avalible fueling, basically anything within the ecm parameters, and the best is it's on the fly ( no download )and it's undetectable---so far

there will be more on this subject later. Oo.

 

[TJarecke]

If this comes to life ,at a reasonable price, there will be alot of programmers/chips for sale for 3rd gens.

Diesel Power did you go racing again yet?

Keep it coming.

 

[Diesel Power]

If this comes to life ,at a reasonable price, there will be alot of programmers/chips for sale for 3rd gens.

Diesel Power did you go racing again yet?

Keep it coming.

as of now the price will be very competitive, and it is in the beta stages, we still have to beta the new monitor---that will let you see every thing in real time format and on a graph, its cool stuff. have i been to the track ?

no i have not been lately, i have to do a few things to better safe guard the truck from destruction :-laf but my guess is that there first program will put you in the 12's easily with a set up like mine, on a stock truck you may see low 14's or even high 13's with a good transmission. i should have some really good info in the next few weeks

 

[raychem]

I see alot of motors going KABOOM in the future... LOL

 

[JasonCzerak]

That third injection event... which I DO NOT KNOW ALL THE SPECIFICS ON HOW IT WORKS but I will venture to say that it is there to complete the combustion process. Like pilot injection, it starts the process and the main injection event completes it and the third event "cleans up" what is left behind but is it always active? I do believe that pilot injection turns off at a certain rpm and re-engages below that set rpm. Marco or someone familiar with how the process works should be able to shed light on the subject

yeah, some one like marco should chime in here. But my background in general programming suggests that you should be able to in theory adjust the events to just one event tunned just right and you could in theory make these CR's sound like a VP pump, knocking all over the place



Unless there's something fundamental about the injectors that I haven't a clue about that requires 2 or 3 (motor depending) events.



What is difference between a 03/04 and a 04. 5+ that the 03/04's just have 2 events? is that a mechanical difference? Or just programming?



Macro said in a thread he was about to turn it off? but lost 100hp? Could that be because he didn't increase the main event's fueling rate that little bit more to make up for that 100hp loss by turning off hte 3rd event?



bottom line here, if things are in fact 100% adjustable as you all are saying, then turning the motor to run on one single injection event should be possible. why hasn't anyone done it?



Just some thinking and questioning out loud here.



ya know, I don't know the detailed physics of a diesel combustion process, but is it me or do the 04. 5's and up run cooler EGT and more HP easier and spool turbo's faster then any motor previous? I'm sure it has something to do with having 3 injection events. why not add a 4th? 2 mains and a bigger 4th?



Anyone work for cummins here can chime in?

 

[OT-OF-HERE!!]

04.5 & 05

I have an 04. 5 and i have the third injection event. It is the same motor as your 05. Am I wrong here?

Your right.

 

[raychem]

bottom line here, if things are in fact 100% adjustable as you all are saying, then turning the motor to run on one single injection event should be possible. why hasn't anyone done it?



Just some thinking and questioning out loud here.



ya know, I don't know the detailed physics of a diesel combustion process, but is it me or do the 04. 5's and up run cooler EGT and more HP easier and spool turbo's faster then any motor previous? I'm sure it has something to do with having 3 injection events. why not add a 4th? 2 mains and a bigger 4th?



Anyone work for cummins here can chime in?

The newer trucks will have up to five injection events... I would love to see that!!!! And part of the reason for so many events is effiicency, better more complete burn, reduced cylinder presures, emisions, not to mention that our 3rd gens spool turbos... even big ones very good like you mentioned. Yep... and let us not forget that we have gone from 160 hp to 325 with little impact on fuel milage. The way I drive I never see more than 19 mpg at its best.



Richard

 

[raychem]

ya know, I don't know the detailed physics of a diesel combustion process

I was reading some articals a while back and it may have been metioned here before but with CR injection, the fuel being injected into the cylynder is exceeding the speed of sound... ... over mach 1 and is causing some engineers to rethink injector design due to the shock wave produced... cool HUH.

 

[JasonCzerak]

I was reading some articals a while back and it may have been metioned here before but with CR injection, the fuel being injected into the cylynder is exceeding the speed of sound... ... over mach 1 and is causing some engineers to rethink injector design due to the shock wave produced... cool HUH.

now that is rather cool.

 

[MA2LA]

Yep... and let us not forget that we have gone from 160 hp to 325 with little impact on fuel milage.

Richard

I'm not so sure about that. Many of us that have had 12valvers and the 24valves are pretty much ****** that we aren't seeing the milage we should be with these CR motors, ya the power is nice but the emisions control that are on them are killing what could be killer mileage

 

[raychem]

I'm not so sure about that. Many of us that have had 12valvers and the 24valves are pretty much ****** that we aren't seeing the milage we should be with these CR motors, ya the power is nice but the emisions control that are on them are killing what could be killer mileage

Ive been into diesel for a while and gassers even longer... yeah emisions kill us but everybody seems to forget that HP kills milage more than emisions. Reason being that Brake Specific Fuel Comsumption (BSFC) increases substancialy with increases in HP... . not emisions. A 160 hp motor has a lower BSFC than a 325 hp motor and lets not forget that we are dealing with diesels who really don't care about A/F ratios... tell that to a gasser!!! Also the newer trucks are quite a bit heavier than the older trucks. My 97 12 v NEVER saw higher than 17 mpg after all my work was done and was making 500 to the rear. Then again I drive at 75-90 and not 65 but that is another story. So yeah... milage has gone down but if we slow down (not) we can make it up again. I am curious, maybe someone with a smarty can run half power or valet to get some comparisons just to see if milage is up. Here is another comparo... . 700 hp gasser on primeum gas... ... ... 10 mpg period on my friend ford exporer with a 347 stroker supercharged no matter how he drives( truck runs mid 10's); Diesel motor w/700 hp 15 mpg plus and TORQUE to boot.





Richard

 

[JasonCzerak]

Ive been into diesel for a while and gassers even longer... yeah emisions kill us but everybody seems to forget that HP kills milage more than emisions. Reason being that Brake Specific Fuel Comsumption (BSFC) increases substancialy with increases in HP... . not emisions. A 160 hp motor has a lower BSFC than a 325 hp motor and lets not forget that we are dealing with diesels who really don't care about A/F ratios... tell that to a gasser!!! Also the newer trucks are quite a bit heavier than the older trucks. My 97 12 v NEVER saw higher than 17 mpg after all my work was done and was making 500 to the rear. Then again I drive at 75-90 and not 65 but that is another story. So yeah... milage has gone down but if we slow down (not) we can make it up again. I am curious, maybe someone with a smarty can run half power or valet to get some comparisons just to see if milage is up. Here is another comparo... . 700 hp gasser on primeum gas... ... ... 10 mpg period on my friend ford exporer with a 347 stroker supercharged no matter how he drives( truck runs mid 10's); Diesel motor w/700 hp 15 mpg plus and TORQUE to boot.





Richard

isn't there a big difference in available HP and the HP you use to do X?



You don't use all 160hp all the time, I sure don't use all "460hp" all the time. So that point is false.



The fact that the 3rd gens weight more then a 1st or 2nd gen is the driving factor here in MPG differences. For the 2nd gens' and 3rd gens it's not as much wight, but in 4x4 trucks, drive train resistance is a good factor.



Along with weight, just size doesn't help, there's more surface area (or atleast appears to have more) on a 3rd gen, and the wheels bases are typically longer as well,



If we can compare apples to apples here. Same body, lift, tires, transmission, 4x4 gear boxes and drive trains. Just a 12v, vs 24v, vs CR. I'm sure hte CR will be hp HP and better MPG.

 

[Diesel Power]

i will be getting a new file next week, should give me about 30% more fueling than the program i have now, from 2500-3500rpm---thats going to be nice, after i get the new vb in, and valve springs, and tires i will be able to get the track info and dyno info you guys want to see... ... ... ..... Oo.

 

[jwilliams3]

3500rpm? Thats already been done.



How did you go about getting the new plug in?

 

[Diesel Power]

3500rpm? Thats already been done.



How did you go about getting the new plug in?

i know it's been done, thats not what i was saying, im just keeping you guys up to date with what is going on! im getting a new program that fuels 30% harder from 2500-3500 rpm. my new plug in---lets just say i know the right people--by accident... ... ... :-laf

 

[raychem]

You don't use all 160hp all the time, I sure don't use all "460hp" all the time. So that point is false.



The fact that the 3rd gens weight more then a 1st or 2nd gen is the driving factor here in MPG differences. For the 2nd gens' and 3rd gens it's not as much wight, but in 4x4 trucks, drive train resistance is a good factor.



Along with weight, just size doesn't help, there's more surface area (or atleast appears to have more) on a 3rd gen, and the wheels bases are typically longer as well

Jason... BSFC does not work that way. BSFC to be put into simpler terms is the amount of fuel required to drive an engine to produce HP. The math does not lie, it requires that for a given HP we have a given amount of fuel required to produce that hp. So a 160 hp engine requires x amount of fuel to burn( remember these are peak hp we discuss here to keep it simple). A 325 hp engine reqires Y fuel to burn. Both these engines @ lets say 1900 rpm require to different amounts of fuel to burn to keep running since the 325 hp more is making more hp @ 1900 than the 160 @ 1900(I do not have power bands for these engines in front of me at this time). Yeah. . we could factor injectors, timing, turbos... ect but thats too many variables. Lets also remember we are talking about two different types of injection(mechanical vs electronic) one fixed and one infinatly variable.



And yes weight and gearing has a lot to do with it but these new engines are so much more efficent than the older engines.