EGT too high, advice needed

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Thanks, now I see the CA by your handle (duh).

Pete

 

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RBrooks,
The Twin-Ram helps by improving distribution to all six cylinders of the engine. The factory inlet to the cylinder head is limited to about a 2”x2” square opening in the base plate of the manifold. The Twin-Ram doubles this inlet area and also splits the heater grids into the two locations to help ease the restriction that exists by stacking the grids.

Some of the postings in this thread suggest that it doesn’t matter how much you improve the distribution because of the forced induction provided by the turbocharger. In reality, higher boost levels actually exaggerate the poor flow characteristics of the intake. When you have a restrictive orifice and you increase flow (boost) you introduce more turbulence to the air. Turbulent air is less dense than laminar air. Sharp corners and restrictive inlets also introduce boundary layers in the airflow as flow increases, which effectively reduce the area of flow. Increasing flow area and smoothing the radius of corners around which the air must flow improve all of these negative characteristics. The Twin-Ram is effective for this. If you happen to have an EGR model engine, you get an added benefit of an increase in inlet size.

I apologize for a delayed response. Hope this is helpful to you.



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Peter Treydte
Director of Technical Communications
Gale Banks Engineering

 

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We used one on the Auto Wurks Diesel racer when we first redid the engine and switched back to the stock intake with all the bad designs. Horsepower gain on the dyno was zero with the twin ram intake. Maybe we're not using the right engine oil?

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Chris Timochko
1997 5sp 4X4, HX40, BD 4" Brake, Marine Compression, Custom Tuned Injection Pump, Auto Wurks Diesel Intercooler, 370B Injection Nozzles, Delivery Valves, Governor & AFC Spring Kit, Psychotty Air, Water Injection, NOS Diesel Kit, 6" Chrome Exhaust System, No Smoke Valet Switch, McLeod Dual Disc Clutch, Mag-Hytec Rear Cover, Cummins Chrome Kit, Optima Red Tops, Hadley Bully Horns, Hurst Line Loc, Goodyear Wrangler AT/S 305/70/16s. Test mule for Auto Wurks Diesel race program

 

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I am not suggesting that you would achieve a horsepower gain simply by installing the Twin-Ram, nor was that the original question on this thread. Diesel engines do not respond to improvements in airflow by making more horsepower. Horsepower only comes with the addition of fuel, which can only be done safely by also increasing airflow. The original question that was being addressed here was about how to reduce excessive EGT’s.



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Peter Treydte
Director of Technical Communications
Gale Banks Engineering

 

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PeterT
With the boost gauge and wastegate plumbed into the intake after the twinram, wouldn,t the effect of better flow be negated? The wastgate would compensate for any changes in boost pressure, either up or down.

The effect of laminar flow in such a small area would be very minor and most likely un measurable. Do you have any hard test data showing this?

Thanks, Larry

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1972 Chinook class C with 96/215 5spd, 4/5" exh, 4"BD, MagHytec, 85gal fuel, K&N RE0880, AutoMeter, 370's, BD gov kit, BD afc kit, 16cm, 16%btdc, yada-yada-yada
www.fostertruck.com/cummins

 

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I believe that with less restriction would come better airflow at LOWER boost pressures.

As a simple example, measure the pressure in a garden hose, with the end shut off. Then measure it with no nozzle on the end at all. The first would have a pressure (Assuming at my house) of approx 35-40 psi, but the flow would be 0. With the nozzle removed, pressure would be reduced in the hose, however the flow would be much higher. (Obviously)

It then would seem that the wastegate would tell the hairdryer to push MORE air in, because the boost had gone down. I may be off base on this, so somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

So I believe I understand how the TwinRam would get more air into the motor, but I do not understand how this will decrease the EGT. My knowledge is mostly with gas/alky motors, and more air would cause the temp to go up, as the mix would be leaner, would this not be the case with the diesel?

Rodney

 

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I agree that a California equipped EGR truck can benifit from a better air intake. However, the benifit comes because the stock intake is necked down inside to create a venturi effect to favor EGR function. In the stock EGR configuration, the intake area is reduced by about 60% over previous years. You can go out and buy a 95 intake at Cummins for 65$ or machine out the stock EGR intake and get the same gains as you would with a Banks twin intake for 400$.
OK, OK, I'll admit that there MAY be some very SMALL effect that takes place as a result of the Banks twin intake but at what cost? It does look nice but for more bang for the buck try hogging out the stock EGR intake. That will cost nothing if you have access to a verticle mill and to weld on a plate costs around 40$ and you will retain the stock function but the EGR wont work very well, if at all. No codes are set and total fees: 40$. It will reduce EGTs and the truck will run better at higher RPM.
-Paul R. Haller-

 

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Rodney,
A (stock) diesel runs much leaner stociometricly(sp) than a gas motor, a certain ratio of air/fuel such as 14. 7/1 isn't maintained. I think idle is like around 100/1 on a diesel and full load gets around 20/1 someone correct me on this. Yeah when you lean out a gas motor the EGTs go up and pistons get melted etc. It seems to be the opposite on the diesel. Running more air through the motor cools combustion temps (EGTs). Most power enhancing devices available comes with a boost elbow to increase boost/air fed to the motor. Adding more fuel without adding more air raises EGTs which in some cases like my ETH are high even in stock trim.
I have heard though that the back cylinders run hotter EGTs than the fronts due to the positioning of the air intake, the twin ram could keep these back cylinders cooler. Often it's also suggested that the thermocouple be mounted in the path of the rear 3 cylinders in the manifold for kind of a worst case EGT reading. It's one thing to get a lot of power but quite another (and more expensive) to be able to use the power for very long due to EGT issues.


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2001 3500 QC 4X4 black sport, ETH & everything else except 4. 10s

 

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The real plus with the Twin Ram setup,as I understand it,is that the air flow to the cylinders is spread out,not increased. The stock manifold directs the air towards the two middle cylinders then fans out,#1&6 cylinders end up running hotter. The Twin Ram directs the air towards cylinders 2&5,evening out the cylinder temps and thus lowering the EGTs. Banks salesman told me the TwinRam doesn't increase performance that much,it mainly increases engine longevity.

 

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This is the first time i've heard of the back three running hotter. My probe is in the back (If memory serves me correctly) so I would be seeing the higher temps on gauge. Can anyone else confirm this rear hotter syndrome?

 

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It's not the back cylinders that run hotter,it's the ones on each end. With the stock intake the two middle cylinders are coolest,getting hotter in each direction. Pyro will read the same on either side of the ex. manifold.

 

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Does anyone know what manifold is used on the Diamond B 370hp? I think since the marine motors are not subject to smog design criteria Cummins would use what is best for longevity, and for power. If the Diamond B doesn't need a twinram then I don't think my engine does either.

Gotta keep in perspective that Banks is in biz to make money like every company. It's up to us to decide who is delivering a product worth our money. Always question the advise of someone wanting your money. #ad

 

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Larry,it's just like an ATS ex manifold,do you really need it,don't have anywhere else to spend your money?I don't feel I need a ATS or Twin Ram,so what if my engine only goes 500,000 miles instead of 520,000. I feel the same way about Prime-Loc,syn oil and OEM filters also.

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95' 25004X4,AT,Driftwood,Banks Stinger,Warn fender flairs and running boards(Play truck)95 3500,5 speed,Driftwood,Banks&Phscotty,34,000 GCVW apple and tractor hauler(work truck)